I'm sorry I do not agree with all of these threads preaching about no "aftermarket silencers". Yeah we can give in and give them up but do you think that will end it for the Greenies ? I doubt it, next out halogen headlights will be too bright causing light pollution, then our rubber tracks will be causing snow pollution and obviously our plastic skis made from oil are keeping us from energy independece, our handwarmers are adding to global warming and then our bologna sandwich we are carrying in the rear is causing cruelty to animals and on an on. Give in to them and see where it gets you. As I have lamented before in this forum if a half a million Harleys with straight pipes can cruise the Black Hills (and Yellowstone) most of the summer, how am I bothering anyone 30 miles from anywhere in a hidden meadow ? I'm sorry but for me it is an enjoyable part of the whole experience hearing my motor making power and I'm an old man !
Where does it end ?
- Thread starter onlyrotax
- Start date
A
AkHockey10
Well-known member
hahaha yeah, probably right! 
I have to disagree. Loud doesn't mean power....usually the opposite. I have ridden for 35 years, love the sport, building/modding sleds and even I am annoyed by the obnoxiously loud sleds, even miles from "anywhere".
I never understood the fascination with "loud"...to me it sounds cheap and has zero to do with performance and is very fatiguing for the rider. And I often notice the guys with loud sleds wearing earplugs
There are plenty of good, lightweight silencers with reasonable noise levels. Having the crackly loud settup is just bad for the sport in the eyes of just about everyone, even other sledders. If your going to have a loud sled it better be the fastest thing on the hill, nothing better than a quiet stocker passing the obnoxious loud sled on the hill to show them they went backwards in technology.
I never understood the fascination with "loud"...to me it sounds cheap and has zero to do with performance and is very fatiguing for the rider. And I often notice the guys with loud sleds wearing earplugs
There are plenty of good, lightweight silencers with reasonable noise levels. Having the crackly loud settup is just bad for the sport in the eyes of just about everyone, even other sledders. If your going to have a loud sled it better be the fastest thing on the hill, nothing better than a quiet stocker passing the obnoxious loud sled on the hill to show them they went backwards in technology.
You said right there..."half a million"
Our numbers are so far below that of motorcyclists, that it is insane to use that comparison.
Is it fair?
No, but nothing in life is.
So as it is ...............
Loud = Gay
Don't Be Gay!
Sorry but loud anything pisses me off. Especially Harleys! they ride right through your neighborhood loud as hell! These days every old fart like onlyrotax has a harley w/pipes its annoying at best! when it wakes the baby it just plain pisses me off! But like I said millions of rich old gezzers are ridding Harleys these days so they get away with it. its crap!Ride you loud sled away from those who would complain is all I can say. eliminating things that cause the sport a black eye is whats important no matter what your preference.
First, I don't think most aftermarket silencers are that offensive. The "stingers" and race cans might be an issue.
I agree, I don't want to give anything to the greenies. The problem is everybody whines and crys about them but VERY few of us attempt to do anything about it. How many letters to the USFS have you written? How many meetings have you attended? How big of a group do you belong to that is fighting closures? THOSE are the problems, the greenies are beating us with PARTICIPANTS not sheer numbers. There are tons of snowmobilers, 20,000+ registered sleds in Colorado alone but only 2000 in the club and only 200 of them active in fighting the closures.
The simple answer is to get everyone you know that rides involved. Until that happens, we WILL continue to lose to them. Loud pipes don't help, smokey old 2-strokes don't help, but that isn't the real problem. It is simply that all the crybabies don't care enough to really try and make a difference.
I agree, I don't want to give anything to the greenies. The problem is everybody whines and crys about them but VERY few of us attempt to do anything about it. How many letters to the USFS have you written? How many meetings have you attended? How big of a group do you belong to that is fighting closures? THOSE are the problems, the greenies are beating us with PARTICIPANTS not sheer numbers. There are tons of snowmobilers, 20,000+ registered sleds in Colorado alone but only 2000 in the club and only 200 of them active in fighting the closures.
The simple answer is to get everyone you know that rides involved. Until that happens, we WILL continue to lose to them. Loud pipes don't help, smokey old 2-strokes don't help, but that isn't the real problem. It is simply that all the crybabies don't care enough to really try and make a difference.
I hate loud harleys, Honda hatchbacks with a coffee can exhaust, or some kid with a stereo that's all earth shaking base. But, I never complain to anyone about it, just don't like it. So, don't do it for the greenies, do it for other sledders. Get the best HP creating aftermarket can, you can buy. But, give some credit to a well made quiet can. That's all we can ask for. Last thing I want is a get the government involved.
I thought they were already involved, which is why stockers are so quiet these days. Also, a lot of places in the midwest ticket snowmobiles for loud exhausts when on trails by residential areas.
I find loud sleds really freakin annoying, and I don't see the point in it these days either. The manufacturers are doing a heck of a job producing a powerful exhaust, and yet quiet. It doesn't seem like the perforce gains are as large as they used to be either.
O
Ollie
ACCOUNT CLOSED
There is nothing wrong with aftermarket cans. I run SLP cans on my sleds.
That having been said, the problem starts when people run stingers or straight pipes or are just looking for loud for the sake of loud.
you ask why 1/2 a million harley riders get away with it?
Simple, there are 1/2 a million of them and they scream loud with votes and lawyers. Sledders on the other hand look at it as someone elses problem and don't bother to get involved.
You want to run what ever you want?
Get a 1/2 a million sledders to get active and I mean REALLY active and you may be able too. Until then, we are on the run.
That having been said, the problem starts when people run stingers or straight pipes or are just looking for loud for the sake of loud.
you ask why 1/2 a million harley riders get away with it?
Simple, there are 1/2 a million of them and they scream loud with votes and lawyers. Sledders on the other hand look at it as someone elses problem and don't bother to get involved.
You want to run what ever you want?
Get a 1/2 a million sledders to get active and I mean REALLY active and you may be able too. Until then, we are on the run.
I thought it was just blatant non-enforcement. I haven't heard any stories about harley guys fighting sound tickets before.
you ask why 1/2 a million harley riders get away with it?
Simple, there are 1/2 a million of them and they scream loud with votes and lawyers. Sledders on the other hand look at it as someone elses problem and don't bother to get involved.
Bingo, half of that 1/2 million are lawyers and other upper echelons of our wonderful society. Getting a harlye and all the harley gear right down to drawers is like the new country club!
Simple, there are 1/2 a million of them and they scream loud with votes and lawyers. Sledders on the other hand look at it as someone elses problem and don't bother to get involved.
Bingo, half of that 1/2 million are lawyers and other upper echelons of our wonderful society. Getting a harlye and all the harley gear right down to drawers is like the new country club!
Got any stories? I guess what I am saying is that sure it is plausable, but I don't believe that is the reason. Do you have any specific examples / cases? Upper echelons get busted all the time for DIU's and such, but that is different from loud exhaust. Maybe I should speed around to get a cops attention and just ask him?
Wait, no beer involved with that one!Any cops out there got an answer? You ever given a harley rider a ticket for excessive noise? Ever give a crotch rocket or cars/trucks a ticket for excessive noise?
I don't think everyone is disavowing "aftermarket silencers" at all .. there are companies that make lightweight cans that are as quiet as the stock exhausts....people are just saying think twice about putting the stupid-obnoxious 100dB+ can/pipe combos on ... I think at least.
I agree that the greenies will find and use every excuse they can, however. abnoxiously loud pipes provide them with an all too easy target. I look at how you used to be able to ride dirt bikes virtually anywhere around Casper WY (my hometown) and how over the last 20 years everywhere you could ride has been shut off due to noise complaints .... and it's a direct result of everyone thinking they had to take the baffle out of their muffler. You get 20 people with that mentality, and it doesn't take an acoustical engineer to realize you can hear that for MILES away.
The point those of us who speak out against the stupid loud pipes are trying to make is that having pipes that loud does NOT help our situation any more that it provides you with a performance benefit. I would really like to see some posted dyno results .... is 1/5 a horsepower worth an extra 20 dB and a riding area shut off? Not IMO ...
I am the last person whatsoever who is gonna defend the greenies, but one of the biggest problems I see amongst motorsport advocates such as most of on this site here are is that we refuse to use our brains and make the most obvious concessions about what we're doing, and then we get completley owned on it by the greenies ... one of these things are the 100+ dB pipes ... I think another thing is people with 4WD trucks and 4-wheelers that go tearing the **** out of the land where they shouldn't be, but that's a whole other argument in itself ...
I think it's really a copout to justify having obnoxious pipes with the mentality "well, if it isn't this, it'll be something else" for the sole purpose the loud pipes are a virtual enormous red flashing bullseye for the greenies to shoot at ....
I think now more than ever you have to really be intelligent about the whole situation, you can't just blindly do what everyone else does with the "F*ck the greenies mentality" because that just digs us all into a ditch even further ...
With that said, I most assuredly have a "f*ck the greenies" mentality but I'm also intelligent about off-road use and do everything I can to not abuse it.
I'm sure you guys will flame the **** out of me, but I really don't care
edit: Also, as a side note I do have an aftermarket silencer on my sled, but I sure can't tell that it's any louder than the stock pipe was ... it's actually quieter at idle I think....might be SLIGHTLY louder at WOT, but not too much. If I thought it was obnoxiously loud, I wouldn't be running it ...
But now that I think about it, I should email SLP to see if they've ever measured how loud their can for my sled is ... I am thinking it probably meets the same US Forrestry Service requirement of 96 dB that most aftermarket 4-wheeler exhausts need to meet to be "legal".
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Yha ruffy, I've read the forest circus's noise rules. What I'm talking about is actively monitoring parking lots with full time baby sitters. Happened already in some places, I've heard.
No Dogmeat, your right on. I'd hope no one would flame you for wanting to protect the sport.
I really think a lot of Harley riders do it on purpose, I know a couple that did it on purpose. Middle finger in the air mentality, and the cops just don't want to deal with it. Not to mention that a lot of hog riders are politically/money connected. Heck that's why the outlaw riders are good at transporting drugs. Not many cops will pull over a big group of Hell's Angles. I think the loud hogs are going to meet the same fate as loud sleds. Cops with M4's.
No Dogmeat, your right on. I'd hope no one would flame you for wanting to protect the sport.
I really think a lot of Harley riders do it on purpose, I know a couple that did it on purpose. Middle finger in the air mentality, and the cops just don't want to deal with it. Not to mention that a lot of hog riders are politically/money connected. Heck that's why the outlaw riders are good at transporting drugs. Not many cops will pull over a big group of Hell's Angles. I think the loud hogs are going to meet the same fate as loud sleds. Cops with M4's.
O
Ollie
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Got any stories? I guess what I am saying is that sure it is plausable, but I don't believe that is the reason. Do you have any specific examples / cases? Upper echelons get busted all the time for DIU's and such, but that is different from loud exhaust. Maybe I should speed around to get a cops attention and just ask him?
Any cops out there got an answer? You ever given a harley rider a ticket for excessive noise? Ever give a crotch rocket or cars/trucks a ticket for excessive noise?
The harley industry has a huge arguement in their favor that we don't.
They claim the loud noise calls attention to their presence and makes it safer for them as well as the other drivers out there.
Now, Denver has passed ordinances that ban aftermarket pipes or modifications to existing pipes on all motorcycles. There are law suits over it right now.
Don't get me wrong I do not run an open pipe or a "stinger" either just a PPP lightweight can. What I am trying to get people to understand is the Greenies theory called "incrementalism", which means they will take away one thing at a time and they do not care if it takes 100 years to eliminate you or your hobby as long as they can take one small thing away from you they are making progress and the quicker you give in the quicker they can move on to their next goal.I don't think everyone is disavowing "aftermarket silencers" at all .. there are companies that make lightweight cans that are as quiet as the stock exhausts....people are just saying think twice about putting the stupid-obnoxious 100dB+ can/pipe combos on ... I think at least.
I agree that the greenies will find and use every excuse they can, however. abnoxiously loud pipes provide them with an all too easy target. I look at how you used to be able to ride dirt bikes virtually anywhere around Casper WY (my hometown) and how over the last 20 years everywhere you could ride has been shut off due to noise complaints .... and it's a direct result of everyone thinking they had to take the baffle out of their muffler. You get 20 people with that mentality, and it doesn't take an acoustical engineer to realize you can hear that for MILES away.
The point those of us who speak out against the stupid loud pipes are trying to make is that having pipes that loud does NOT help our situation any more that it provides you with a performance benefit. I would really like to see some posted dyno results .... is 1/5 a horsepower worth an extra 20 dB and a riding area shut off? Not IMO ...
I am the last person whatsoever who is gonna defend the greenies, but one of the biggest problems I see amongst motorsport advocates such as most of on this site here are is that we refuse to use our brains and make the most obvious concessions about what we're doing, and then we get completley owned on it by the greenies ... one of these things are the 100+ dB pipes ... I think another thing is people with 4WD trucks and 4-wheelers that go tearing the **** out of the land where they shouldn't be, but that's a whole other argument in itself ...
I think it's really a copout to justify having obnoxious pipes with the mentality "well, if it isn't this, it'll be something else" for the sole purpose the loud pipes are a virtual enormous red flashing bullseye for the greenies to shoot at ....
I think now more than ever you have to really be intelligent about the whole situation, you can't just blindly do what everyone else does with the "F*ck the greenies mentality" because that just digs us all into a ditch even further ...
With that said, I most assuredly have a "f*ck the greenies" mentality but I'm also intelligent about off-road use and do everything I can to not abuse it.
I'm sure you guys will flame the **** out of me, but I really don't care
edit: Also, as a side note I do have an aftermarket silencer on my sled, but I sure can't tell that it's any louder than the stock pipe was ... it's actually quieter at idle I think....might be SLIGHTLY louder at WOT, but not too much. If I thought it was obnoxiously loud, I wouldn't be running it ...
But now that I think about it, I should email SLP to see if they've ever measured how loud their can for my sled is ... I am thinking it probably meets the same US Forrestry Service requirement of 96 dB that most aftermarket 4-wheeler exhausts need to meet to be "legal".
Give in to them on this and they can move on to their next goal that much quicker!
Maybe the "can haters" and 4 strokers should start flaming on the extreme riders who make videos of themselves climbing up and diving off of the Greenies beloved mountains and cliffs, oh no they couldn't do that those guys are heros ! I have no problem with the 4 strokes just don't try to shove them down my throat, I guess I look at my sleds as the sprint car I never had because I was too busy raising my family when I was younger and if I can't tinker with them or modify them just a little bit then I might as well give them up !
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I dunno, I just think the bottom line is, the less and less people use their brains, the more and more and more areas are going to be completley shut off to motorized travel. I think we all can admit we've seen our fair share of *******s riding dirt bikes and/or snowmobiling ... It's unfortunate because I've seen just as many ******* skiiers and hikers, etc... but you have to understand that we are a LOT more visible target than they are, so we're going to be more scrutinized ... it doesn't help to stoke a fire that's already burning pretty well until it's out of control so to speak.
I mean we all know it's a case of the minority ruining it for the majority, but there is no reason to give the minority any more publicity than they've already generated for themselves...
It's a losing battle any way I look at it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight [the urge to join the minority so to speak because it's really not doing anything for our fun factor] ... at least I guess that's the way I look at it.
I mean we all know it's a case of the minority ruining it for the majority, but there is no reason to give the minority any more publicity than they've already generated for themselves...
It's a losing battle any way I look at it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight [the urge to join the minority so to speak because it's really not doing anything for our fun factor] ... at least I guess that's the way I look at it.
Loud pipes or not snowmobiling will ALWAYS be a controversial sport. Organization will be the key to keeping the sport alive. There will always be Greenies fighting to take the entire forest and shut out anything mototized, they just need to be reminded that included in the US Forest Services mission statement, and I quote line #3, is "to provide recreational opportunities for America". To go on, line #2 states that they are to, and again I quote, "manage resources to promote responsible use and sustain a dynamic economy". As far as I am concerned snowmobiling, ATVing, etc.etc fit into that "recreational opportunity" catagory, after all THEY call them recreational vehicles and American people spend a great deal of hard earned cash contributing to a "dynamic economy".
As a former event promoter I have done a fair share of research on the dollars spent on the sport and it is nothing short of staggering. Point being, as a recreational sport contributing to a dynamic economy we have as much right to use public land as any other single user group. PERIOD.
The green people are just more organized and pro-active with what they want and ask for. If the motorized recreation community pulled together efforts to fight for what we believe in we could meet the battles head on instead of accepting closures again and again.
In summary: There is plenty of room for everyone to enjoy the recreation of your choosing, don't pick on mine and I won't pick on yours. Support the efforts of the people that are actively fighting for our rights. Just a thought.
My rant.
As a former event promoter I have done a fair share of research on the dollars spent on the sport and it is nothing short of staggering. Point being, as a recreational sport contributing to a dynamic economy we have as much right to use public land as any other single user group. PERIOD.
The green people are just more organized and pro-active with what they want and ask for. If the motorized recreation community pulled together efforts to fight for what we believe in we could meet the battles head on instead of accepting closures again and again.
In summary: There is plenty of room for everyone to enjoy the recreation of your choosing, don't pick on mine and I won't pick on yours. Support the efforts of the people that are actively fighting for our rights. Just a thought.
My rant.
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