I have a 2012 1100 turbo and have wrecked 3 belts in the last 100 miles. 2 of the belts flipped upside down in the sheaves. The third one I still have on but the cords are pulled and it starts to shake when u get into the throttle. Which is what happened to the other 2 before they flipped. I'm in Yellowstone right now and took it to the dealer and they put on a new primary because they said it was binding. But I wrecked a bran new one today after the new clutch. I also have the new updated secondary. Which I'm curious if that's what's causing the problem, any else have problems like this. I'm getting close to selling this sled
What is wrong with my sled
- Thread starter sledermobile
- Start date
Sounds very similar to sleds we have seen around here. The real only fix is the TCL delete. It fixes the poor design/engineering that cat had.
mine blew two belts in one ride out of blue long story short coolant tank leaking enough steam to slip the belt under hard pull . cracked on back side
I have seen 40-50 split tanks, and of the ones that also had belt problems, none of them were fixed with a new tank that didn't leak. If yours did you are the only one I have heard of that it did and you should buy some lottery tickets.
I have worked with many sleds that went 6-800 miles on the original and all of a sudden it's 2 belts a day. Didn't change anything. If you already changed both clutches that eliminates that so the causes most likely are now parallelism issues which are caused by the motor finding a new home due to motor mounts failing. Replacing those with adjustable Evo ones is the start of the project. Engine brackets for older 1100's is a must when you do that. Jackshaft bracing and an engine stopper helps to stop the engine moving around. If doing those things doesn't cure it the TCL delete bracket is the final piece that locks the jackshaft down separate from the motor like a traditional design is. All the sleds we have done the tcl delete on already had the JS brace and engine snubber last year and it didn't fix the problem. That being said a new clutch with those two braces did fix about 80% of the belt blowers I dealt with, the last 20% are doing the TCL delete this year with great success .
I have worked with many sleds that went 6-800 miles on the original and all of a sudden it's 2 belts a day. Didn't change anything. If you already changed both clutches that eliminates that so the causes most likely are now parallelism issues which are caused by the motor finding a new home due to motor mounts failing. Replacing those with adjustable Evo ones is the start of the project. Engine brackets for older 1100's is a must when you do that. Jackshaft bracing and an engine stopper helps to stop the engine moving around. If doing those things doesn't cure it the TCL delete bracket is the final piece that locks the jackshaft down separate from the motor like a traditional design is. All the sleds we have done the tcl delete on already had the JS brace and engine snubber last year and it didn't fix the problem. That being said a new clutch with those two braces did fix about 80% of the belt blowers I dealt with, the last 20% are doing the TCL delete this year with great success .
That sounds like my sled all stock except for exhaust it is a 2012 xf 1100t blew 4 belts in the last 250 miles how much work is it to replace motor mounts ?
Depends on your skills...
Not everyone is mechanically inclined, but if you are, motor mounts are about an hour job. EVO's TCL Delete with Turbie's tunnel mounts are a bit more involved, but a capable wrench with a good selection of tools can do it in 4-5 hours from start to finish.
Not everyone is mechanically inclined, but if you are, motor mounts are about an hour job. EVO's TCL Delete with Turbie's tunnel mounts are a bit more involved, but a capable wrench with a good selection of tools can do it in 4-5 hours from start to finish.
Unless you are working on a brand new sled, and have done the job of changing the motor mounts or installing a TCL delete multiple times, it will take considerably longer to complete these tasks. Unless your selection of tools include magic ones.
Engine vertical and horizontal parallelism to secondary clutch is off. Probably way off. Most likely center to center of clutches also too long for stock cat belt.
I'm a flatlander, but run 192 studs on a XF 9000 which loads the belt nicely on our trails. This is what I found off my new sled.
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...905-14-xf-engine-jackshaft-alignment-c-c.html
So far, belt runs cool ( cooler by far than my 12 NA ). Looks like the sides of the belt haven't even completely worn to the sheave angles yet, I guess the belt is still not broke in after 215 miles. I always used to go 20 miles before hammering on it, guess it takes longer with these $$ belts.
Good information here on how to check alignment:
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...rocross-sleds-having-belt-blowing-issues.html
Good luck.
I'm a flatlander, but run 192 studs on a XF 9000 which loads the belt nicely on our trails. This is what I found off my new sled.
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...905-14-xf-engine-jackshaft-alignment-c-c.html
So far, belt runs cool ( cooler by far than my 12 NA ). Looks like the sides of the belt haven't even completely worn to the sheave angles yet, I guess the belt is still not broke in after 215 miles. I always used to go 20 miles before hammering on it, guess it takes longer with these $$ belts.
Good information here on how to check alignment:
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...rocross-sleds-having-belt-blowing-issues.html
Good luck.
E
Evolution Powersports
Well-known member
I am glad the 14s are working good. We believed the 14's would be the best out of the box simply because Cat tightened up their build quality tolerances. We will see how they hold up long term. As Just Boost It stated, many sleds were not belt blowers in the beginning. My 12 went 600 miles on the first belt. What happens is the motor mounts wear, the jack shaft fatigues and the clutches no longer have a prayer of staying parallel under load. Our 13 F1100T vertical and horizontal parallelism was within .010 between the primary and secondary. Even though the at rest alignment was as good as could be, we could blow the belt at will. The PRIMARY issue is misalignment of the clutches under load. Our TCL delete, motor mounts and jackshaft solves these issues by giving you the ability to align the clutches on both axises as well as keeping the engine aligned while under power.
It still has cats extended warranty. Shouldn't that cover motor mounts?? I can put in mounts if I have to but I feel like that should be warranty not? I plan on ordering a new sled next but I'd still like to ride this one for the rest of the year without dumping a grand into it
The 14's aren't much different than the '12 or '13's, the motors are just dropped in any old way on the line it looks like. Well maybe the engines aren't 1/8" off just .050 now.
Totally agree that the main problem is misalignment under load, also agree jackshaft is weak bad design, and material heat treat.
Not a big fan of 2 roller secondary, would think that would want to pinch the center bushing more than a 3 roller? Wouldn't that center bushing bind easier with heat, grenade belts, or snap jackshafts?
Also seems the primary could use some work, feels like the low end torque of the turbo needs alot of mass to clamp belt in primary. Cat has not enough heel weight to grab on bottom of pulley near engagement. So they raised engagement, higher rpm with the light mass to help with more belt clamp.
Feels like it should have a 6 weight primary, 3 with a ton of heel weight to help hold belt on the bottom end, 3 others with mid to tip weight to take over the shift out.
No doubt the rubber inserts are super soft probably to eliminate any vibration, a person can put a little silicone in the gaps to stiffen it up but that would probably just make the heat exchanger leak quicker.
This is what I found out and did to the sled, which I believe is the main reason the belt is running cool on my sled, the extra vent and big fin ( more aluminum = larger heat sink) helps. After some miles I'll check it again and see where it ends up for alignment.
<table id="post9679041" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_9679041" style="border-right: 1px solid #ffffff"> Sled has .7 miles on a track stand only.
First thing checked center to center. Pulled clutches used a 12" caliper and did the math came up with 11.593" too long for stock belt to sit above secondary clutch with proper belt deflection. That's how my '12 NA is and I believe most 1100's are (you will see why farther down, there is a problem with the design of the Mag side engine bracket.)
Decided to use Clutchweight's (thank you for all of your great information it is appreciated by us all hoping to fix or improve our sleds) procedure to check the engine and jackshaft alignment. Checked secondary clutch runout on outside face of fixed sheave, less than .002.
For a target plate I had some stock that I made up for main cap straps for a olds, that I never used. It's hardened and surface ground flat and parallel, thats what I fastened to the crank.
Used a surface plate indicator inspection base with a dial indicator from the secondary clutch across to the crank.
Factory measurements were pretty poor.
Vertical parallelism: Zeroed at 12:00 position, then checked @ 6:00 position -.050. PTO end tilted down. Excessive.
Horizontal parallelism: Zeroed at 3:00 position, and checked @ 9:00 position +.030. PTO end tilted towards secondary ( opposite direction of what you want ).
Pulled sled apart to get to the PTO engine bracket, opened up the bolt holes and used a screw jack under the engine to try to align it.
I could not get horizontal parallelism any better than .008 tilted toward secondary clutch, by just adjusting the 1 engine bracket.
So I removed the muffler loosened up the 2 mounting bolts to the engine of the mag side engine bracket. Still I couldn't get the engine in Horizontal alignment, something was hitting.
There is a fitting coming from the mag cover that hits the engine bracket, so the engine can't physically move towards the secondary clutch any farther. It looks like just a flexable hose hitting, but it's not, the barb is right underneath. This can't be good for a hose either being pinched against sand cast aluminum.
I pulled the bracket out and cut it out for clearance and filed it so there was about a .25 radius in the corner. The heat exchanger should break before the mount goes IMO. That engine bracket 0708-574 hitting the engine mag case fitting was limiting the engine from moving back towards the jackshaft.
After getting things parallel, and about a day of work, center to center is now at 11.532. Probably could get it to 11.5 by loosening the front motor mount, but vert and horiz. parallelism miraculously came out to all zeros.
Just a guess, but I'd have to believe that if this sled is made this way, it's just like all the rest that have been made. Mag case fitting hitting the motor mount, that is why most have long center to centers, and if checked I bet vertical and horizontal parallelism is way out also.
Everyone else should check their parallelism and center to center if you have a belt blower.
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The 14's aren't much different than the '12 or '13's, the motors are just dropped in any old way on the line it looks like. Well maybe the engines aren't 1/8" off just .050 now.
Totally agree that the main problem is misalignment under load, also agree jackshaft is weak bad design, and material heat treat.
Not a big fan of 2 roller secondary, would think that would want to pinch the center bushing more than a 3 roller? Wouldn't that center bushing bind easier with heat, grenade belts, or snap jackshafts?
Also seems the primary could use some work, feels like the low end torque of the turbo needs alot of mass to clamp belt in primary. Cat has not enough heel weight to grab on bottom of pulley near engagement. So they raised engagement, higher rpm with the light mass to help with more belt clamp.
Feels like it should have a 6 weight primary, 3 with a ton of heel weight to help hold belt on the bottom end, 3 others with mid to tip weight to take over the shift out.
No doubt the rubber inserts are super soft probably to eliminate any vibration, a person can put a little silicone in the gaps to stiffen it up but that would probably just make the heat exchanger leak quicker.
This is what I found out and did to the sled, which I believe is the main reason the belt is running cool on my sled, the extra vent and big fin ( more aluminum = larger heat sink) helps. After some miles I'll check it again and see where it ends up for alignment.
<table id="post9679041" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_9679041" style="border-right: 1px solid #ffffff"> Sled has .7 miles on a track stand only.
First thing checked center to center. Pulled clutches used a 12" caliper and did the math came up with 11.593" too long for stock belt to sit above secondary clutch with proper belt deflection. That's how my '12 NA is and I believe most 1100's are (you will see why farther down, there is a problem with the design of the Mag side engine bracket.)
Decided to use Clutchweight's (thank you for all of your great information it is appreciated by us all hoping to fix or improve our sleds) procedure to check the engine and jackshaft alignment. Checked secondary clutch runout on outside face of fixed sheave, less than .002.
For a target plate I had some stock that I made up for main cap straps for a olds, that I never used. It's hardened and surface ground flat and parallel, thats what I fastened to the crank.
Used a surface plate indicator inspection base with a dial indicator from the secondary clutch across to the crank.
Factory measurements were pretty poor.
Vertical parallelism: Zeroed at 12:00 position, then checked @ 6:00 position -.050. PTO end tilted down. Excessive.
Horizontal parallelism: Zeroed at 3:00 position, and checked @ 9:00 position +.030. PTO end tilted towards secondary ( opposite direction of what you want ).
Pulled sled apart to get to the PTO engine bracket, opened up the bolt holes and used a screw jack under the engine to try to align it.
I could not get horizontal parallelism any better than .008 tilted toward secondary clutch, by just adjusting the 1 engine bracket.
So I removed the muffler loosened up the 2 mounting bolts to the engine of the mag side engine bracket. Still I couldn't get the engine in Horizontal alignment, something was hitting.
There is a fitting coming from the mag cover that hits the engine bracket, so the engine can't physically move towards the secondary clutch any farther. It looks like just a flexable hose hitting, but it's not, the barb is right underneath. This can't be good for a hose either being pinched against sand cast aluminum.
I pulled the bracket out and cut it out for clearance and filed it so there was about a .25 radius in the corner. The heat exchanger should break before the mount goes IMO. That engine bracket 0708-574 hitting the engine mag case fitting was limiting the engine from moving back towards the jackshaft.
After getting things parallel, and about a day of work, center to center is now at 11.532. Probably could get it to 11.5 by loosening the front motor mount, but vert and horiz. parallelism miraculously came out to all zeros.Didn't want to adjust any more, long day. But think I might have to add some rotation to the engine to take into account of jackshaft flex. Can't find any specs on the TCL parallelism, just the Z1 models. Either way it's better than .030 in the wrong direction.
Just a guess, but I'd have to believe that if this sled is made this way, it's just like all the rest that have been made. Mag case fitting hitting the motor mount, that is why most have long center to centers, and if checked I bet vertical and horizontal parallelism is way out also.
Everyone else should check their parallelism and center to center if you have a belt blower.
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I am checking mine today. Thanks for the info!
Not saying mine is fixed but the 2013 belt guard is garbage I was noticing lugs off the top of my belts missing then shortly after the blew apart. They truly are cheese graters. Im currently running a dayco belt and the new 14 guard and haven't had any issues yet keeping my fingers crossed. This doesn't work its time to fork over some cash for stage 3 tcl delete. 