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What is the advantage of Diamond Drive?

L

lynxer292b

Member
Hey guys,
Just about to pull the M8 out and do this DD oil change. Sounds like kind of a hassel. I have heard alot of horror stories with these things. The last thing I want is to to be on my only Mountain Trip of the year and blow the POS to hell on the 2nd climb. I see a couple of Chain Case replacements. It is expensive (1800.00) but it would be worth it at the summit of Two Top in West Yellow Stone with a blown DD. Im not running a turbo or any crazy engine mods, but I ride pretty hard.

What was the reason for changing out of the Chain? I know guys would blow chains every once and a while, but if you did it was only a 50.00 fix and a blind man in a blizzard could put it on. From what it sounds the DD's blow just as much as chains did and they cost 600-800 to fix!!!! I see some aftermarket DD by BDX. Is this just another fine quality product designed by BDX that will most likely fail and ruin other parts on my sled?

Thanks guys,

-lynxer
 
Seems like you get the gamut of answers when you ask about the DD.

The reason for the DD is weight & efficiency, you lose the jackshaft (friction & weight) and you go to a gear drive vs chain which is more efficient. You also have the brake on the driveshaft, a handy thing.

It seems like the most likely bombs are the 07-08 unts, but they all have that chance.

I've got over 8000 miles on dd's in the last few years & ride with nearly all DD sleds & have never had one go out on any of us. Lost 3 chaincases on my previous sled though.

The biggest thing is that when you do lose a DD it's pricey, but I don't think they're likely to take anything else out (I'm sure I'll get proven wrong here:D)

I like them, a bit of maintenence & they're pretty reliable.
 
How bout some more pics of the girl in your avatar, thats what "DD's" we should be talking about :D

No disrespect to you or her, she is very good looking. :beer;
 
Never blown mine but I keep a spare ready to go. There are easy to change, if one goes just get the spare out of the trailer and change it. I think maintenance is key and the 09 none reverse seems to be stronger. A used DD as a back up is a lot cheaper than an $1800 conversion that lets you run a 13" wide track. With the BDX one you need a different driveshaft and that drives the cost up. You are better off putting aftermarket, stronger gears in an 09 case than going with the DDlite IMO. The BDX on uses like 4 oz. of oil and the 09 case uses 15 oz. I'll take the extra weight for the reliability of the 09 case.
 
BigHoe said:
Never blown mine but I keep a spare ready to go. There are easy to change, if one goes just get the spare out of the trailer and change it. I think maintenance is key and the 09 none reverse seems to be stronger. A used DD as a back up is a lot cheaper than an $1800 conversion that lets you run a 13" wide track. With the BDX one you need a different driveshaft and that drives the cost up. You are better off putting aftermarket, stronger gears in an 09 case than going with the DDlite IMO. The BDX on uses like 4 oz. of oil and the 09 case uses 15 oz. I'll take the extra weight for the reliability of the 09 case.
Click to expand...

Sounds like I need to find an 09 case. Is it a direct replacement? I could get an 09 case instal it and keep my 08 as my spare? I only have 250 miles on the sled I shouldn't be worrying about reliablity, but its part of the sport. Thanks for the input guys!



As for my gf in the avatar.
I dont mean to hijack the thread, but hey its my thread and I think BigHoe once again answered my questions!


SSPX0466.jpg

SSPX0462.jpg
 
The 09 is a direct replacement however the 05-06 M7 case won't bolt in, I'm running an 09 M1000 case and gears on my TM8 and I have the stock case with the stock M8 gears as the back up. With the low miles you have and relatively close to stock hp your DD is probably fine. I just pull the cover off and clean it out with brake cleaner. My 07 case looks new inside. The trouble seems to come when a tooth comes off the gear then gets stuck between the other meshing gears. Cat should have made a place for metal to go so it would be out of the way of the moving parts. It seems the DD kind of destroys itself once any piece of it starts to go. I always check all the teeth when I clean it. It seems like the drives that fail the most are people that drop cornices and jump a lot or have turbos on 10+ lbs of boost. It seems like when the track is stopped then you hit the ground or an abrupt change in track speed is really hard on the meshing gears. I'm pretty hard on my sled but I admit I try to be careful with the DD. When they go it sucks though, the sled is stuck if you don't have something to drag it out on because the track won't move. I just think it's easier to replace the drive and ride out rather than call the helicopter.


Now, back to the B00bies!!
 
I for one would like to see a comparison between a diamond drive and a chain case for efficiency! I know it is supposed to be more efficient to drive the brake with the final drive, Let alone safety reasons! But for some reason, An automatic trans type of design with planetary gears just doesn't seem as efficient as a manual trans? If it is clearanced properly throughout the system, GREAT! But if tolerances stack up or gets loose, Watch out! I for one would like one, But I feel it would not be worth it? I am surprised other mfg's didn't come out with a gear drive system like a engine cam gear drive, Or short low mounted roller chain / belt drive setup?

Mike
 
Last edited:
IMO there is no real advantage beyond the brake on the drive axle. Back when they came out it was a marketing gimmick. "New and improved drive system". It was supposed to be lighter, but I don't see that either.... The little planetary gear robs a lot of power and I don't believe for a second that that is more efficient than the chain case. Gear changes are expensive, and the maintenence is way more critical. Plus it gets you a crappy non floating clutch and all the fun clutching issues associated with the new clutch.

That said, I have had zero issues on my 3 DD cases. Just clean them out, inspect and replace oil mid year and at the end of the year.
 
Nubulin said:
IMO there is no real advantage beyond the brake on the drive axle. Back when they came out it was a marketing gimmick. "New and improved drive system". It was supposed to be lighter, but I don't see that either.... The little planetary gear robs a lot of power and I don't believe for a second that that is more efficient than the chain case. Gear changes are expensive, and the maintenence is way more critical. Plus it gets you a crappy non floating clutch and all the fun clutching issues associated with the new clutch.

That said, I have had zero issues on my 3 DD cases. Just clean them out, inspect and replace oil mid year and at the end of the year.
Click to expand...

The majority of the weight loss comes from not needing a jackshaft and most people on here seem to dispute it, but at high speed a planetary gear is much more efficient than a chaincase, at least that's what math, science and engineering textbooks say. That being said, I'm not sure that the benefits of the weight loss and increased efficiency out weigh costs of the increased maintenance and loss of some reliability.
 
backcountryislife said:
Seems like you get the gamut of answers when you ask about the DD.

The reason for the DD is weight & efficiency, you lose the jackshaft (friction & weight) and you go to a gear drive vs chain which is more efficient. You also have the brake on the driveshaft, a handy thing.

It seems like the most likely bombs are the 07-08 unts, but they all have that chance.

I've got over 8000 miles on dd's in the last few years & ride with nearly all DD sleds & have never had one go out on any of us. Lost 3 chaincases on my previous sled though.

The biggest thing is that when you do lose a DD it's pricey, but I don't think they're likely to take anything else out (I'm sure I'll get proven wrong here:D)

I like them, a bit of maintenence & they're pretty reliable.
Click to expand...



Why this then ??? http://supremetoolinc.com/cart/sidewinder-diamond-drive-chaincase-upgrade-p-24.html

Just a bluf ??

I`ll always tick to the Chain.....
 
r-tech-Norway said:
Why this then ??? http://supremetoolinc.com/cart/sidewinder-diamond-drive-chaincase-upgrade-p-24.html

Just a bluf ??

I`ll always tick to the Chain.....
Click to expand...

This might be the worst argument for a chaincase I have ever heard. Just because someone makes a product doesn't mean it's in your best interest to run it. This is controversial example but, the use of the BDX block off valves dates the technology in your motor back 10+ years. Some people swear by them but the truth is that variable exhaust valves are an important part of the modern motor but people take them off everyday. While I'm sure the STM chaincase may have some advantages in extremely high horsepower or lake racing applications, it doesn't mean that it's the best option on the M series mountain sled. Stick to the chain if you like, but I think over the next several years as patients expire you will see more and more planetary gear, direct drive type setups.
 
I believe the diamond drive also provides a lower attack angle too...similar to the ol "rolled chaincase"
 
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