I'm not really understanding the reason the needles off of an Assault won't fit on the Pro RMK. I understand that they are a little longer, but how does that affect weather or not they will fit? If they are longer, I would assume they would just push the a-arms down a bit farther, but the motion is all the same. Bottoming would be at the same stroke out length, regardless of what machine they're on right? So somebody enlighten me on what the problem is. I want the needles with the adjustment on my Pro!
Walker Needles
- Thread starter crf118r
- Start date
I think they would function, it would just put unwantd stress on your heim and ball joints on your front suspension. the geometry of the suspension would no longer be ideal. if you soften the shocks and spring so the ride height is correct again, then your shock is no longer operating idealy. So i think it can be done, it just isn't ideal. thats my understanding of it anyway... someone please correct me if i'm wrong
your tag leads me to think you ride MX ??
if so you know the KTM cunundrum,, just go needless and restack like a std design, they work so much smoother and dont STALL the rebound with deep hits..
Gus
BSP
if so you know the KTM cunundrum,, just go needless and restack like a std design, they work so much smoother and dont STALL the rebound with deep hits..
Gus
BSP
So I would need the wider a-arms because I'm assuming the bottom mount is further out on the Assault than the Pro? Not really wanting the wider stance.
your tag leads me to think you ride MX ??
if so you know the KTM cunundrum,, just go needless and restack like a std design, they work so much smoother and dont STALL the rebound with deep hits..
Gus
BSP
Not really familiar with the KTM's and their linkless rears. I see Holz has an upgrade for the standard Walkers. Anyone know exactly what that entails? I will obviously want to get some seat time before I spend any money, but just thinking ahead a bit. I did ride a demo and was pretty impressed with the suspension coming off of my D8 with Floats all the way around. I like a coil better than air so far, comparing the suspensions I've ridden on to date. Haven't ridden the Evol X stuff yet or whatever the TOL stuff is called.
yea. maybe you can rebuild the shocks and put whatever necessary parts in them to shorten them up too? Not sure if that would be worth whatever the cost is. You might just be better off getting setup with some Exit shocks that are right for your sled right off the bat. I'm not sure what kind of costs play into all these options tho...
1) The ball joint is over rotated when extended fully. This full extension happens a lot when you are riding the sled, anytime you go over a bump or thru the pow or climbing jumping. This binds up the steering when the front is extended, and places a lot of leverage and stress on the ball and end of the A-Arm... This leads to premature wear on the ball and socket and can cause cracks in the A-Arms.
I'm helping my neighbor with his 2010 Dragon 800..... on the stand at a his house right now. He got a set of shocks from a 2010 Assault (that swapped out to Floats). With the weight off the sled, the steering binds slightly and is difficult to turn... and the lower ball joints are maxed out. The ride height (which should be around 9"-9.5") is now on around 11".
2) With longer shocks, ride height is not correct which will give you higher steering effort and not work in harmony with the rear skid as well.
The front and rear suspensions have to work as a system...together.
I talked with Ryan Zolinger about this at Jackson just this year, at length, as well as Max from TCP, Allen Mangum from Timbersled and Mark Holz on other occasions as well. All agreed that the correct length shock just flat works better.
Here is a quote from the HRP instructions... all the suspension mfgs that I've talked to agree with this.
I'm helping my neighbor with his 2010 Dragon 800..... on the stand at a his house right now. He got a set of shocks from a 2010 Assault (that swapped out to Floats). With the weight off the sled, the steering binds slightly and is difficult to turn... and the lower ball joints are maxed out. The ride height (which should be around 9"-9.5") is now on around 11".
2) With longer shocks, ride height is not correct which will give you higher steering effort and not work in harmony with the rear skid as well.
The front and rear suspensions have to work as a system...together.
I talked with Ryan Zolinger about this at Jackson just this year, at length, as well as Max from TCP, Allen Mangum from Timbersled and Mark Holz on other occasions as well. All agreed that the correct length shock just flat works better.
Here is a quote from the HRP instructions... all the suspension mfgs that I've talked to agree with this.
Also.... the amount that you shorten (shim) the shock is the amount of travel that is removed from the shock.
This changes the ride character.....Especially with the needles which are designed to have the needle enter the oriface of the shock rod at a particular position of the shock travel.
Something to ponder...
This changes the ride character.....Especially with the needles which are designed to have the needle enter the oriface of the shock rod at a particular position of the shock travel.
Something to ponder...
Elaborate more...what do you mean by "standard walkers" and "as good as"...
What is your riding style? How ofen do you need to adjust the shocks?....Are you assuming that the stock shocks are not sufficient for how/where you ride. (all sincere questions and not intended to sound smart-azz)
I've noticed that often, people buy shocks like they buy computers... they are not evaluating what their abilites are, the intended use is, the needs of that use and matching the hardware to these needs and simply want the coolest out there. The Walkers on the Pros are top notch IMO... sure, improvements can be made... especially if they are custom valved for your weight and riding style past the factory shocks which are setup for the average riders/conditions...which, IMO, they did well ....The average rider weight is 190 in most sled brand evaluations.
The front and rear suspensions on the Assaults are matched for the shocks... they function as a system differently.
For example, when you order a custom valved set of shocks, or have yours revalved, from Carls/Holz...they are dialed in for your exact rider weight and intended use... the same is true for MX systems... outdoor big tracks, indoor SC, trail, Erzberg etc....
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I like to boondock mostly, but I'm always on the lookout for a jump big (relatively speaking) or small to hit. I'm no shock expert, but I like to have the best suspension I can afford. I was actually hoping somebody would dump their Walker needles for an air shock and I could pick them up cheap, but if they don't fit right, I don't want them. I just want to be able to adjust the compression and rebound occasionally, but not a requirement. I guess it kinda carries over from the moto side of things. Just really weighing the options with this thread.
Bill,
I think that you will really like the new shocks with Carls valving and rebuild. Did you have them rebuilt with the fox components? I personally didn't ride them but, a friend of mine rode the Pro with them and without and he said it is night and day difference. I have had Fox floats and zero pros in the past and I like both. Obvious one is more $ than the other. I think that the WE with carls revalve and rebuild (basically they are now zero pros) will be awesome.
I think that you will really like the new shocks with Carls valving and rebuild. Did you have them rebuilt with the fox components? I personally didn't ride them but, a friend of mine rode the Pro with them and without and he said it is night and day difference. I have had Fox floats and zero pros in the past and I like both. Obvious one is more $ than the other. I think that the WE with carls revalve and rebuild (basically they are now zero pros) will be awesome.
I'm sincerely curious on shocks when people say "night and day difference".
How did they evaluate them...Did they change ANYTHING else on the sled?
What characteristics got "better" and how would you describe the change ... other than "it rips" etc. Rebound Character, compresion character, general plushness/harshness, how do they handle G-outs, repetitive bumps, dealing with terrain variation while the sled is on edge.
Carls shock knowledge and ability to custom tailor shocks to the riders needs is second to none in the Polaris game...They put in the time and testing.
And as I've said before, a set of shocks that is custom valved for your weight and riding style will definitively refine any vehicle... Snowmobile, ATV, MX, Baja Racer etc... Especially if you are considerably outside of the "Average Rider" norm.
Please don't take this post the wrong way... I would really like more information about what are the actual improvement details.
How did they evaluate them...Did they change ANYTHING else on the sled?
What characteristics got "better" and how would you describe the change ... other than "it rips" etc. Rebound Character, compresion character, general plushness/harshness, how do they handle G-outs, repetitive bumps, dealing with terrain variation while the sled is on edge.
Carls shock knowledge and ability to custom tailor shocks to the riders needs is second to none in the Polaris game...They put in the time and testing.
And as I've said before, a set of shocks that is custom valved for your weight and riding style will definitively refine any vehicle... Snowmobile, ATV, MX, Baja Racer etc... Especially if you are considerably outside of the "Average Rider" norm.
Please don't take this post the wrong way... I would really like more information about what are the actual improvement details.
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Perhaps the 9-9.5 inch measurement compensates, but a deep lug track and carbides on a garage floor is going to have a different attitude and height than settled on packed snow, of course. I would think that a sag/set in measurement would be more effective for front and rear setup, given the length of the shock and travel is fixed on each specific model.
MH,
A friend of mine and Jack Struthers (Carls Cyles owner) were out last spring riding the pro demo. My friend rode the Stock sled several times on varied terrain and also down a severly wooped out trail. The part of our conversation that stuck in my head was that in all apsects the revalved shocks worked better and especially on the wooped out trail. There was a lot more info exchanged back and forth but, I don't have enough time type it all down. I trust my friend and Jack, so I had mine rebuilt. My 2 cents. If you want more info, call Jack 208-853-5550.
That is good to hear. I didn't mean to imply that I was an above average rider by any means and that I really needed something top notch. I just like to have the best I can, and do feel that a better suspension, weather it be on a motocross bike or a sled, will make a better rider out of a guy with decent skills. That would be me. I will be paying a lot of attention to my suspension after reading the previous posts. I trust Carl's when it comes to all things Polaris and Fox suspension. I didn't know they used Fox or Fox style internals for the new Walkers. This should be very interesting. Usually a revalve consists of only arranging the current stack, not adding specialty pieces. Let it snow
Avi8tormd, Thank you for the reply!
The production PRO RMK's have refinements made to valving... changes have been made.... since the Demo sleds were tried last year.
I'd ride it and see what you think... If you have another identical sled to compare an upgrade to that has upgraded/new/re-valved shocks (with no other suspension track differences) and like the ride... do it.
If you are below 165 lbs or above 225 lbs rider weight or you are an extreme level rider... have them revalved/re-sprung for you specifically.
Carls is on top of it.
My 2 cents.
The production PRO RMK's have refinements made to valving... changes have been made.... since the Demo sleds were tried last year.
I'd ride it and see what you think... If you have another identical sled to compare an upgrade to that has upgraded/new/re-valved shocks (with no other suspension track differences) and like the ride... do it.
If you are below 165 lbs or above 225 lbs rider weight or you are an extreme level rider... have them revalved/re-sprung for you specifically.
Carls is on top of it.
My 2 cents.
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