Anyone every tried to run fuel injectors rather than powerjets on their carbureted turbo sleds?
Turbo XP w/ Fuel Injection over Carbs.
- Thread starter snow4shover
- Start date
I just thought it would an interesting thing to do. Then you would be able to do adjustments on the fly. I guess there would be added cost with the 2 injectors, fuel rail and another pressure regulator.
I have been pondering this idea also. But found out you need crank position sensor, timing sensor, stand alone controller and someone smart enough to program it.
I still think someone will be able to get it done. But then again master the e-tech and it's all done for you (which I personally believe has not been done yet either).
I still think someone will be able to get it done. But then again master the e-tech and it's all done for you (which I personally believe has not been done yet either).
Well I'm probably going to give it a try. Don't think you need something as fancy as a standalone to simply fire the injectors with an RPM signal. The fuel curve should only need RPM and boost.
its not anything like you would expect.
I have it working OK but still not as clean as JUST carbs...funny..
You do need an external rpm souce like a trigger , the systems out now do not accept a digital OEM signal.I put the magnet in the back face of the clutch and pickiup thru the motorplate..simple.
You do NOT need an additional pump or seperate fuel system,, You are not moving anywhere near the vloume thru the injectors as you might think.. that was the biggest issue for me to get my head aroundd, its a piddly little amount of fuel .
The boost it stuff is OK,, I like the unit and the support.
FWIW,, its not going to make the sled any better running or easier to tune for altitude changes..not ONE bit...
Gus
I have it working OK but still not as clean as JUST carbs...funny..
You do need an external rpm souce like a trigger , the systems out now do not accept a digital OEM signal.I put the magnet in the back face of the clutch and pickiup thru the motorplate..simple.
You do NOT need an additional pump or seperate fuel system,, You are not moving anywhere near the vloume thru the injectors as you might think.. that was the biggest issue for me to get my head aroundd, its a piddly little amount of fuel .
The boost it stuff is OK,, I like the unit and the support.
FWIW,, its not going to make the sled any better running or easier to tune for altitude changes..not ONE bit...
Gus
So did you just use a Standalone ECU or something along those lines to drive the injectors?
That is funny, I think the manufacturers are figuring this out. I currently work for a company developing carbs. I've got two on my sled and I guarantee it runs cleaner than any FI sled out there.
Anyways I've been pondering the idea of a turbo also, but am worried about all the tuning involved with a carb, thought about the idea of adding injectors but ran into this problem.
A person can get this to work. if you want to spend the money on it. but why? the problem with it is the boost factor when is the good time to bring in the fuel? at a certain boost level? a certain RPM? or so many cc's of fuel at ________? a turbo sled does not work like that. you will find that your fueling will be either before or after the performance takes place.
i will try and give an example. a very simple one. a guy is running up a 70% grade at 8400 rpm with the turbo pushing 10 psi of boost. then blurps the throttle a couple times to to keep the sled under control. the blow off blows off and rpm's drop the where does that leave the fueling? either still on and the sled has to overcome a choked motor or when you get back on the throttle it is lean because the fuel has shut off.
those are some of the senerios that you will run into. so your system will need to be a bit more complecated than you think. it has to be able to read all the in's and outs that the motor, injectors, turbo, blowoff, wastegate, & timing, are going through. and that is the tuff part.
i will try and give an example. a very simple one. a guy is running up a 70% grade at 8400 rpm with the turbo pushing 10 psi of boost. then blurps the throttle a couple times to to keep the sled under control. the blow off blows off and rpm's drop the where does that leave the fueling? either still on and the sled has to overcome a choked motor or when you get back on the throttle it is lean because the fuel has shut off.
those are some of the senerios that you will run into. so your system will need to be a bit more complecated than you think. it has to be able to read all the in's and outs that the motor, injectors, turbo, blowoff, wastegate, & timing, are going through. and that is the tuff part.
[QUOTE=gus bohne
You do need an external rpm souce like a trigger , the systems out now do not accept a digital oem signal.
Like a MSD crank trigger for a race motor. Automotive. Magnetic pick up. Wouldn't it be possible to replace starter flywheel with the trigger wheel? It would be easy to mount the p/u. Give MSD a call with stroke length and sea if they could make a wheel. The bad side would be blowing a belt and taking out the p/u. P/u is $70.0 a wack.
Perfect timing. Super easy adjustment. Rpm activated switch to take timing out on the big end to keep pulling.
You do need an external rpm souce like a trigger , the systems out now do not accept a digital oem signal.
Like a MSD crank trigger for a race motor. Automotive. Magnetic pick up. Wouldn't it be possible to replace starter flywheel with the trigger wheel? It would be easy to mount the p/u. Give MSD a call with stroke length and sea if they could make a wheel. The bad side would be blowing a belt and taking out the p/u. P/u is $70.0 a wack.
Perfect timing. Super easy adjustment. Rpm activated switch to take timing out on the big end to keep pulling.
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Don't get me wrong but you would have the same problem with OEM fuel injection. If your fuel is still on after you let off then your boost reference is not in a very good spot. If you don't have fuel and your lean then I guess the fuel needs to come in earlier...this is why you would fuel with reference to boost.
let me see one run, then ill voice my opinion. when we heading out?
Heading out this weekend. I believe I got my whole fuel system ironed out.....some pressure regulators, pump and lots of hose. No leaks in the shop. Got my fuel controller working to drive my injectors so now just have to go ride it.
I am very interested in your results...keep us posted.
Video 1
Went out and rode it yesterday...thing is pretty crazy. Some minor issues but it runs amazing. Complete control over EGTs. Here is a video I put together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g3e2QzEpug
I will put some raw footage up so the "naysayers" can see there is get bottom end throttle response.
Went out and rode it yesterday...thing is pretty crazy. Some minor issues but it runs amazing. Complete control over EGTs. Here is a video I put together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g3e2QzEpug
I will put some raw footage up so the "naysayers" can see there is get bottom end throttle response.
gotta say... lookin pretty imrpessive. makes me want something a little lighter.
lets get out this weekend for a full "evaluation"
lets get out this weekend for a full "evaluation"
damn good job, its not as complex as some think..
good to see someone else thinking outside the OLD box..Good luck to you in achieving the end goal !!!!
your infront of ALL the others
the issue with timing off the back of the clutch is clutch SLIP on the crank.. I wasted 4 months of winter fighting it to no avail.
Its possible a non race set up would be stabile, but even at just 8 psi on the launch button , the clutch would slip at belt contact. typical was 16 degrees retard on first launch,,ARRGGHHHHH
\\
gus
good to see someone else thinking outside the OLD box..Good luck to you in achieving the end goal !!!!
your infront of ALL the othersthe issue with timing off the back of the clutch is clutch SLIP on the crank.. I wasted 4 months of winter fighting it to no avail.
Its possible a non race set up would be stabile, but even at just 8 psi on the launch button , the clutch would slip at belt contact. typical was 16 degrees retard on first launch,,ARRGGHHHHH
\\gus
ahaha.. gus, we try to avoid runnin launch control in the hills, but im betting it would be fun...
