Turbo reed setup

[Tonysnoo]

I ran double reeds on my old M7/1000 carb turbo with excellent luck, season before last.

Last season I ran a home brew version of the OVS with single four petal reeds...... stops opened up to aprox 12mm. No problems so far(intercooler?).

I picked up a set of OVS stops at the SLC snow show this weekend. It will save me from modifying my reeds.

QUOTE]

Well, looks like I lied a bit. I figured that since it was running so well and starting really good..... that the reeds were still OK.....oops.....wrong. Since we are low on snow, I just finally did my pre-season look see. They were broken on the tips even though they had been well supported. My mod made them stretch a bit so that may have been a factor??????

I will be trying the doubled up M8 reeds with the OVS stops. Now we need some winter...

 

[Tonysnoo]

I've been collecting reeds and cages(EBAY) over the past few years. Tonight I laid out the M8, M8-HO, and the M1000 reeds side by side and studied the difference.

The M8 and the M1000 have the same dimensions on the reed cage openings but the HO has a much more rounded end. I assume this is for better flow, or maybe for better life?????

The M8s both have four pedal reeds but obviously the HO has a rounded pedal to match the opening. One interesting thing is the HO reed has a cut out narrower base. I assume to let it flex easier?

The reed stops on the HO and the M1000 are dimensionally the same. The older M8(m7, m6, KK, etc) have a big step before they allow the reed to bend.

Now I'm thinking, since I'm doubling up what combo do I try?........ I'm thinking HO cage, HO reed, M8 reed trimmed (cause I have lots of them) on top, and OVS stops.

Thoughts????

 

[prairiepowderhead]

So what do you guys think for my TM1200, should I just double up 1000 reeds or M8 reeds?? Or something diferent

 

[gus bohne]

I see now why the HO series reeds fail so easily...

you can try them over your std 4 petal base reed but ,, they will break.

I would think just std zr style petals would be good but I understand your way of thinking Tony.

How bout you try them UNDR the uncut 4 petal zr style,, they will NOT be able to twist at the hinge like they would if on top..

The cut is Suzukis way of geting around LAnd and Sea's hinge patent. They have the patent on a drilled hole or series of holes at the hinge point. Polaris has this BUT its open to flow !!! ???? they make for some funny fueling ..

Gus

High performance engineering has petals for ALL brands in the back section and WOW what a price !! You can doo a full set of new doubles for under 60 BUX !! carbon fiber to.

 

[spoon]

Just my 2 cents but have run 2 seasons on Boyesen Rage Cages with their turbo reed setup and My TM1000 has awesome bottom end with them. Their downfall is that chintzy rubber boot they give you to join to T/bodies. I had to wrap that boot with a stainless plumbing clamp that encased the rubber in a stainless sleeve. I managed to get a full season out of the rubber but it still broke down under pressure. This year I am still using same reeds but machined the face of the cage down, cut the stuffers off the stock boots and ported the cage to match the intake boot and am going to try this as the only failure I had was the rubber boot. This was running between 6-14 lbs for over 1500 miles. Not going to change the reeds till they break or fret which I have seen no evidence of yet. Ran 2 sets for those years in a TM1200 and TM1000 and both sets are still in good shape. Blew out 3 boots though. Their reeds don't have stoppers just the 2 stage petal design using a fiber first layer and a carbon top.

 

[Tonysnoo]

I see now why the HO series reeds fail so easily...

you can try them over your std 4 petal base reed but ,, they will break.

I would think just std zr style petals would be good but I understand your way of thinking Tony.

How bout you try them UNDR the uncut 4 petal zr style,, they will NOT be able to twist at the hinge like they would if on top..

The cut is Suzukis way of geting around LAnd and Sea's hinge patent. They have the patent on a drilled hole or series of holes at the hinge point. Polaris has this BUT its open to flow !!! ???? they make for some funny fueling ..

Gus

High performance engineering has petals for ALL brands in the back section and WOW what a price !! You can doo a full set of new doubles for under 60 BUX !! carbon fiber to.

Hey Gus,
What is your thought on the reed cage port opening. Do you like the more squared off one or the more rounded HO style?

 

[gus bohne]

squared..

Monkey see Riley is now monkey dooing too...LMAO..

 

[Tonysnoo]

Well Gus, I've been studying these dang cages and reeds. I'm pretty interested in the HO cage even though the opening isn't quite as big. After looking at the reeds I ran last season, it appears that the corners are the starting point of failure. I wonder if the HO radius would allow more inherent strength in the reed petal?

The thickness of the HO petal is .023 and so is the M1000 petal.
The thickness of the Early M8,M7,900....etc petal is .020.

I decided to modify and double stack early petals on the HO cage. I was also trying a scheme to get more flexibility out of a double stack. Since the corner petals seem to take the most abuse(flow?) I made sure they got more support and the centers less.

It was an interesting exercise building these reeds. I felt more like a manicurist than a guy with no snow and time on his hands....

I sure don't know if it will work, but I guess that's how we learn...LOL

Any thoughts

 

[Eli]

Tony

If I remember right, the poo petals were .017"ish. I doubled up these and feel the bottom end is better than the single slightly chipped m1000 reeds.

Those 800ho petals are wild looking!

Gus,
Have you compared any oem reeds with the HPE replacement petals?


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[gus bohne]

Reed and NAILS by MR. TONY !!! ???? Oh my .

I like your direction man, I bet we see it on the spec sheet of many builders soon..
Eli. so far so good on ONE sled ...No snow so its a proto rider testing for me in BC..

This weather is a bich out here..

Gus

 

[Tonysnoo]

Tony

If I remember right, the poo petals were .017"ish. I doubled up these and feel the bottom end is better than the single slightly chipped m1000 reeds.

Those 800ho petals are wild looking!


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Hey Eli,
Sorry to confuse, the wild looking reeds are the early m8 reeds that I modified to be the top set. My goal was to help cover the end of the main petal that seems to get damaged, yet have the doubled up petals flex almost as easy as a single petal. It's not a very scientific test, but I'm pretty sure they deflect easier than than the stock HO petal and definitely easier than the 1000 petal.

Tell me more about the poo petals, Are they the same size as cat petals?

 

[Mseven]

I was going to try some doubled up m8 reeds in place of the single m1000's I was running. But when I called to order some I was told TDR reeds had better bottom end than doubled m8 reeds. I measured them today and they are .02-.03mm thicker than m1000 reeds. Now I am worried they are going to be too stiff.
Tony, did you just cut yours with a razor blade? I thought about making the TDR's a four petal, but I was afraid they would fray.

 

[Eli]

Hey Eli,
Sorry to confuse, the wild looking reeds are the early m8 reeds that I modified to be the top set. My goal was to help cover the end of the main petal that seems to get damaged, yet have the doubled up petals flex almost as easy as a single petal. It's not a very scientific test, but I'm pretty sure they deflect easier than than the stock HO petal and definitely easier than the 1000 petal.

Tell me more about the poo petals, Are they the same size as cat petals?

The poos are shorter in the inside petals. (v-force style stock poos) I am cranking up the boost a little more, so we'll see how they fare.


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[TheBreeze]

Should the old style M8/ZR reeds be trimmed on the tips to better match the 800 HO cage on the HO, or just run them as is?

 

[gus bohne]

As long as they fit your stops I would NOT cut the ends..anytime we cut the ends we take a risk of them fraying,, you could burn them a bit to cauterize them..or seal them with some superglue across where you cut..

Tony would have a better idea of how bad they may hang off the end

Gus

 

[TheBreeze]

They dont hang off the end, they are just more squared than the opening in the HO cage.

 

[Tonysnoo]

As long as they fit your stops I would NOT cut the ends..anytime we cut the ends we take a risk of them fraying,, you could burn them a bit to cauterize them..or seal them with some superglue across where you cut..

Tony would have a better idea of how bad they may hang off the end

Gus

Hmmmm.....Gus, that is a killer idea I never would have thought about superglue??.......or maybe even fiberglass resin. I'm going to try that on a future set.

Mseven, I used an old reed stop to guide a unibit and drilled a 3/8 hole at the bottom of each slit. All four were stacked and three holes drilled. A few marks from edge of the drilled hole to radius on the end of reed.....then I used my trusty fiskar sissors. After the cuts a finger nail emory board was used to smooth/polish the edges. The ends were also radiused/sanded a bit to follow the contour of the HO cages. Now I have about 1/16"-3/32" of reed sticking out past the sealing surface along the radius.

While sanding away at this experiment, I wondered if it probably would be a good idea to smooth out brand new factory reeds for use with turbos. They seem to always have some strands and prolly associated micro cracks from the stamping operation. Anything to keep a micro fracture/burn scar from starting and propagating.

gees.....I wish it would snow.....this getting too technical for me....LOL

 

[mmsports]

Reed

In the test that I have done the more reed on the out side the better off you will be. I built a reed stop for all of them I took off that were bad had been suck in the cage. I believe its from when your wicking the throttle from pressure to vacuum it suck the peddles in. So i built a stop and it proved my point it either bent it in or broke it off.


out of all options I think the Boyesen Rage Cages is going work best but I have not used the M8 one just the m1000 and note on m1000 gauges they suck to get to hold on to throttle bodies.

My.02

They dont hang off the end, they are just more squared than the opening in the HO cage.

 

[gus bohne]

Like any other column of moving inertia carry mass, Air and its fuel vapor will follow the primary shape of its vessel.

ROUND, The reason we see the outer petals outer edges show damage is the lack of a solid moving column across the petal face..Tony has a novel idea that will move us up another notch in the tuning game....

hows bout we go so far as to round the outer edge of the outer petal ???? its that section flopping in an turbulent directionless flow thats fraying or starting the fracture...??

The HO cage with its rounded opening should address this futher,,Tony ? thoughts..

Our test pond has 4 inches of ice and wil be ready for testing SAT ! I however am loading up for Dynotech appt on monday till wed, 3 turbos. A twin, triple and shhhhhhhhhh.....gonna be a good time at the old dyno next week.....

9 hour drive each way for me...suuuuuuuuuuuccccccks

Gus

 

[TheBreeze]

Boondocker M8 race gas turbo. HO reed cage, single stack m/zr reeds, OVS stops. 1000 ft. 6 pounds of boost, 60 miles. Here are the results. I noticed no running issues with the sled prior to tonights removal.

Additional info: prior to this season, there were double stacked reeds, and stock stops in the sled. HO reeds on the inside, zr/M on the outside. They looked great when I removed them and went to the single zr/M reeds. I reinstalled those existing zr/M series reeds single stacked, as they looked perfect.

In the 60 miles in which the reeds failed, I experienced no DET codes, but did run the sled lean for maybe 4-5 2 second full throttle blasts with my EBC lines unknowingly iced up, and the boondocker box saw no boost adding no fuel. The motor did not sustain any damage that I can see, and I did resolve the EBC issue, and ride the sled for another 30 trouble free miles.

Pic 1 - bottom reed
Pick 2 - top reed
pick 3 - top reed
pick - 4 bottom reed
pick - 5 bottom reed close up
pic 6 - failed reed against OVS reed stop
Pic 7 - Both bottom reeds side by side to show similarity. Interesting how similar the "wear" pattern is