I have not seen any discussion about optimal triple clamp offset. For instance the KTM clamps are available in 14mm thru 22mm offsets. What do you all think is the best for ski feel and control on a mtn horse? I am leaning towards the 18mm option. More stability. Maybe even lower # 14MM?
triple clamp offset ?
- Thread starter chumbilly1
- Start date
Cmon now. Someone must have an opinion
There are pages of opinions and ride reports for machines with different amounts of trail. I think the snow hawks used as much as 8" of trail!!??!
I'd guess that 4mm will not be noticeable with a ski on snow the way it is on a motocross track (from what I've read about motocross). Single ski bikes might not be very sensitive to small trail changes.
Also, ski back further = more stability, forward = quicker (twitchier) handling
I'd guess that 4mm will not be noticeable with a ski on snow the way it is on a motocross track (from what I've read about motocross). Single ski bikes might not be very sensitive to small trail changes.
Also, ski back further = more stability, forward = quicker (twitchier) handling
The relation of the ski to spindle is different than fork rake. I think the less offset the more stable it will be. I know the 14mm cast clamps were on the older (2003) ktms and are available cheap. I may try one since my bike is a dedicated snowbike.
Do let us know how the 14mm clamps work out!
Still wondering about this. Never did try the lower offset clamps but if anyone has I would like to hear about it.
Coming from a motocross background, I have tried offset clamps in the past. In most cases, it was only done to help riders feel more comfortable in their riding position. Being on the smaller side (5'10") I used a 10mm offset to move the bars further back to allow me to scoot my butt back while skimming whoops without pulling back on the bars. This was back in the two stroke days. When I went to a 450, I left the bars in stock position because my body needed to be much further forward than what I was used to. I don't remember really feeling a change in the handling from doing so. Just a more comfortable position while standing up.
My current snow bike (YZ450) has a 2 inch vertical offset added to make the rider position more comfy. Again, no difference in handling, just for comfort.
Hope that helps.
Have fun.
My current snow bike (YZ450) has a 2 inch vertical offset added to make the rider position more comfy. Again, no difference in handling, just for comfort.
Hope that helps.
Have fun.
By offset I am referring to the triple clamp offset, being the difference between the rake of forks and rake of steering headset.
Has there been any updates on how triple clamp offset affects ski pressure? I've got a 06" KTM 450exc dual sport and 2016 TS ST and the forks look like a chopper compared to the other snowbikes yesterday when lined up. My steering feels way too heavy and adjustment to the TS helped but not anywhere close to how the other snowbikes handle. I could ride theirs all day long! Would decreasing the rake angle (bringing the forks back towards the bike) help?
triple clamp offset
I think less triple clamp offset for sure could be a handling improvement. I think I will start shopping for a used set for my xcw.
Less off set will bring the ski back under the bike for more positive steering, I think it would decrease the tendency for the ski to be shoved out hunting for a rut all the time........at least I hope so.
Unfortunately triple clamp offset and fork rake are two different subjects. Unless someone is machining special triple clamps with a different fork angle, the only other fix is sawing into the frame, remove a sliver of frame and reweld.
We used to do that in the 60's when all the bikes were converted street bikes with steep fork rakes, and you wanted something that was more stable through the woops and sand............. read more fork rake......chopperesque.
It would make an old Kawasaki 238 green streak scrambler into a scrambles slider when you sawed up from the bottom just behind the steering stem about 70% of the way through the frame, grabbed the forks and stretched the wheel forward about 2", rewelded the frame.........wowy a great mod.
I think less triple clamp offset for sure could be a handling improvement. I think I will start shopping for a used set for my xcw.
Less off set will bring the ski back under the bike for more positive steering, I think it would decrease the tendency for the ski to be shoved out hunting for a rut all the time........at least I hope so.
Unfortunately triple clamp offset and fork rake are two different subjects. Unless someone is machining special triple clamps with a different fork angle, the only other fix is sawing into the frame, remove a sliver of frame and reweld.
We used to do that in the 60's when all the bikes were converted street bikes with steep fork rakes, and you wanted something that was more stable through the woops and sand............. read more fork rake......chopperesque.
It would make an old Kawasaki 238 green streak scrambler into a scrambles slider when you sawed up from the bottom just behind the steering stem about 70% of the way through the frame, grabbed the forks and stretched the wheel forward about 2", rewelded the frame.........wowy a great mod.
I can feel a 2 millimeter change in offset on a bike with tires but not with a ski 2mm is very insignificant. you can accomplish a more drastic change of offset easily by redrilling the holes on the spindle, moving the saddle on the ski, or on hard pack just grinding the tip of a carbide down is huge. All things you can't do with a tire.
The rake can only be changed by raising or lowering the front or rear of the bike. You do this by changing strut rod or fork height.
The KTM has offset bar mounts to move the bar position forward or back. This moves the rider forward and back and can make a big difference in ski pressure on a snow bike.
The rake can only be changed by raising or lowering the front or rear of the bike. You do this by changing strut rod or fork height.
The KTM has offset bar mounts to move the bar position forward or back. This moves the rider forward and back and can make a big difference in ski pressure on a snow bike.
I think you guys are mistaken in the way you describe triple clamp offset. The way I understand it the triple clamp affects offset by changing fork angle, where fork offset is determined by the relationship of front axle vs. centerline of fork which can sometimes be altered by changing fork lugs. Also I believe switching from a 20 to a 22 will bring contact patch of tire/ski closer to motorcycle.
Triple clamp offset does not change any angles! The offset is the distance from the headset centerline to the fork centerline when viewed from the side. The shorter the distance the lighter the feel (the further out you get it the more you feel the weight of the forks).
You can get triple clamps that alter the fork angle in relation to the headset (referred to as "Rake"), but they are rare and expensive. Mostly used in the street bike chopper world. You can also get specially offset headset bearings that will alter the angle (0.5-1.5 degrees plus or minus) of the forks in relation to the headset angle.
But when "Offset" is used to describe something it is a parallel offset. If the angle is changed it is "Rake/d".
There is a good article I just read about all the terms and how they are used and what the end result is of implementing each of the changes. http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/ten-things-about-triple-clamp-offset
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The ktm bar offset is not the same as triple clamp offset, I just mentioned that to try to clarify a comment in an earlier post about bar risers.
The triple clamp offset doesn't change the rake angle at all unless you account for the minor height difference resulting from moving the tire forward and back on a plane not parallel to the ground.
The 20mm is the distance between the center of the head tube pivot bearing and the center line of the fork tubes. If you go to 22mm you are moving the fork tubes (and ski/tire) forward 2mm. This reduces trail because you measure trail as the distance from the center of the contact patch to the imaginary point on the floor where the head tube pivot lines up with. The imaginary point is always in front of the contact patch hence the contact patch is trailing the pivot point. With out trail the bike would always turn on its own and be impossible to go straight.
So the 20's actually have more trail than the 22's It's really backwards of what most people think the first time they study it..... To me the higher numbers always seem to have a lighter feel, but its pretty hard to tell unless you ride a track and do back to back tests.
The triple clamp offset doesn't change the rake angle at all unless you account for the minor height difference resulting from moving the tire forward and back on a plane not parallel to the ground.
The 20mm is the distance between the center of the head tube pivot bearing and the center line of the fork tubes. If you go to 22mm you are moving the fork tubes (and ski/tire) forward 2mm. This reduces trail because you measure trail as the distance from the center of the contact patch to the imaginary point on the floor where the head tube pivot lines up with. The imaginary point is always in front of the contact patch hence the contact patch is trailing the pivot point. With out trail the bike would always turn on its own and be impossible to go straight.
So the 20's actually have more trail than the 22's It's really backwards of what most people think the first time they study it..... To me the higher numbers always seem to have a lighter feel, but its pretty hard to tell unless you ride a track and do back to back tests.
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Then how is it that I can adjust from 18-20 by reversing the cam in the lower clamp on my ktm billet triples? I don't buy it. Has to change the angle of forks to work.
Flipping around the bottom reverses the offset of the whole pivot axle so the top clamp moves the same as the bottom clamp so the angle doesn't change. Don't over think it what really matters most is testing and trying things on your bike with your ski in your type of local snow. There are so many variables I've learned if someone tries to tell you they can calculate what works better on a snowbike I just have to laugh.
Fair enough. There definitely is variables. I have a couple sets of 18-20 billets kicken around, and a 19-22 hardparts clamp if anyone wants to try something different/upgrade xcw cast clamps.
