To Live or Die, Your Choice

[550iq]

First of all I will appologize for being a bit crass on a few post replies.

Now the rant: I've assisted in the recovery of about 10 bodies of avalanche victims from 1990 to 1997. My dad was one of these bodies. Another was of a young man that died no more that 50 feet from where my dad died, 4 years earlier. The bodies were of skiers, hikers, and snowmobile riders. There is nothing like the dead face of a husband and father of 4, or worse yet, of a young man with his whole life ahead of him. All the bodies had one thing in common: They died because they did not know or care about respecting the RED FLAG that the mountains were waving. And worst of all, they ALL DIED IN VAIN, because people keep dieing.

So, go to the avalanche awareness class (get to know the Beast), follow it up with the search and recovery classes (learn how to use that probe and beacon). Listen to what is said. Find out why the slope released after six skiers came down, and killed the seventh or how the hiker died when the slab release was only 6 inches deep, but 10 acres in area and realize that an avalanche will release in total (the whole thing goes at once, top to bottom).

The unfortunate truth is that the lesson taught and to be learned is to know when to say "You know, that cool looking untracked slope looks like the Beast could live there, we are turning around."

To live or die, your choice. For me and your family, choose life, choose to ride another day.

Thanks.

 

[MARCUSO]

Knowledge is priceless!
There were a few people I know of, and one I know who have perished in such tragedies. I sure hope one of my good friends are not the next to go.

Do yourself and everyone around you a favour. SIGN UP and take the course.

 

[giddyup]

knowledge

great post, if everyone had the knowledge and used the space beteen there ears there would be less deaths every year, knowledge is priceless, sorry for your lose. I have made it that everyone i ride with has the knowledge and practicise with it, we do a day or sometimes two days a year with our beacons and probes , we also pack our bags together so you know everyone has what they need if there is a problem.
thanks
giddyup

 

[SnowBigDeal]

Thanks for the post. Actually, the reason why SnowBigDeal exists is due largely to a friend of ours who was killed just up the canyon from our home several years ago. We knew him and his family really well, and we helped dig him out after being buried for several hours. That accident made us want to help everyone out there be safe so tragedies like that can be prevented. If you haven't taken an Avy class, you need to. If you don't have the gear, you need it. Tragedies can be prevented. I wish everyone would realize the seriousness of avalanches and take action to prevent things like this from happening.

 

[KAWGRN]

I have a ortovox m-2 aqnd a D-3 and was looking at the new ortovox and was told by som guys at the puallup show that the new orto S1 is not as good as they say it is so QUESTION ,,,cost no object what is the best and FASTEST beacon available as I need to replace my M-2 this season I like the ortovox but is it the best?????when you read the reviews they are all great!!!! having never been in an avalanche I have no real world experience other than when we hide one and test the others you guys that have actual experience please give us some insight

 

[550iq]

KAWGRN,
First of all, you do not want to get into an avalanche, ever - not you, not anybody. Not even to practice beacon skills. I gave up wearing beacons because I avoid avalanche terrain - easy to do in Alaska. Remember also, beacons are to find buried people. Which means if you need to use a beacon, someone is buried. Please take an avalanche awareness class and the search and recovery class. In the classes, beacon skills, what beacons are compatable, probe protocol, and how to search will be discussed. Thanks.

 

[Polar Express]

not as smart as you

Dear 550iq,

I realize your post was clear in that it did not recommend that others ditch a beacon, however, writing it as you have, it appears that you feel that it's OK to not wear a beacon because you believe you can 100% of the time judge if a slide could occur, and avoid that area. Maybe you can.

I take exception to this decision, and I find it foolish, and selfish.
Here's why it's foolish:
To me, that's like saying "I won't wear my seatbelt, because I know where to drive to avoid crashes". Remember, there were engineers that did all sorts of math, and said the Titanic was unsinkable - I believe the term was "not even God could sink her". That didn't turn out so good.

Here's why it's selfish:
As one who feels like they are educated, it would be a good job to set an example for those that may not be as 'smart' as you, and wear a beacon. Who knows, you might even be able to help someone else who wasn't as smart as you.

Like you, I have seen death. Preventable, non-wartime death, and it sucks. I am truly sorry for your losses.

But for you to publicly announce that you don't wear a beacon, (in an Avalanche Safety section no less) because you're 1) lucky enough to live in Alaska, and 2) smart enough to ride someplace where it would not happen is just plain dumb.

Please use your unfortunate experiences to help others understand the importance of taking classes, paying attention and learning, and then applying what they learned, by choosing to avoid areas when and where avalanche conditions exist.

PE

 

[theultrarider]

550 iq,


I do think alot like you and live and ride here as well. I feel that I am very safe and conservative when in the hills when it comes to avys and doubt that anyone will have to dig me out.

BUT, I will never ride without my beacon on again because whether it be someone in my party, or strangers, I would not be able to forgive my self if I was AROUND an avy and did not have a beacon to help locate and dig them out. That would be a tough one, and it was that thought that finally made me break down and buy a beacon in the 1st place. To lose a freind or my son, and have no way of finding them other than luck, just because I didn't have a beacon. Worse yet if I knew that did have on....Please think about wearing yours for the sake of others that may need your help because they made a poor, or uniformed choice.

 

[backcountryislife]

KAWGRN,
First of all, you do not want to get into an avalanche, ever - not you, not anybody. Not even to practice beacon skills. I gave up wearing beacons because I avoid avalanche terrain - easy to do in Alaska. Remember also, beacons are to find buried people. Which means if you need to use a beacon, someone is buried. Please take an avalanche awareness class and the search and recovery class. In the classes, beacon skills, what beacons are compatable, probe protocol, and how to search will be discussed. Thanks.

Have you thought about the fact that if you ever see another group/ person that is caught in a slide, they're screwed when otherwise you could have helped.


I see a lot of holier than thou attitudes in this forum from time to time, but if you never take a CHANCE of setting off a slide, you're not mountain riding.
It's a risk, ANY time of the year, yes it's minimized in the spring, yes there are times that are safer than others, but it is a risk. If you go up a little 50 foot hill that's 30 degrees you're traveling in avalanche terrain & are taking a chance.

 

[Adrenalin]

i too ride here in AK , always where a beacon in our "wimpy" mountains.last year i said i wouldn't ride with anyone without one, realizing how selfish that sounded to me , when ever i go out with others i tell them straight forward, got a beacon ? yes ? kool , no ? ok well if you get buried im heading to truck to get you some help.

after a ****ked trip last year if it could wrong it did situation avalanches are NOTHING to be messing around with.

even after i went to an avalanche awareness class before all this went down maybe put me at more risk as i thought i was safe where i was at.


foot notes ? where the beacon , you or your buddy may thank you for it later

 

[550iq]

Everybody,

I have seen too much grief and misery associated with avalanches. I have been beaten down and humbled to the point where the avalanche has "won". Therefore, I choose not to ride where the avalanche lives. I choose to avoid the mountains and anywhere else the avalanche lives.

That being said, after many years of staying quiet on the issue, I feel the need to use this forum to annoy, to question, to criticize, to sound holier than thou, to do whatever it takes to raise the awareness of the avalanche.

So be critical, think of me as a pompus-do-gooder-holier-than-thou jerk, but I have acheived my goal, and that is of elevating the avalanche to the forefront of your mind. Just don't ever forget it, it may be the last thing you do.

Enough said, time to ride guys and enjoy our sport to the fullest. I appreciated your comments and understand your points of view. Ride safe, ride smart. 550IQ.

 

[hughesfoundation]

550IQ, thank you for your effort. With that said I will add to the above posts that you don't have or need to look at it that way. I helped dig out a body this week of a skier who was burried , not in an avy but at the base of a cornice(sp.) in 18" of snow. It was a recovery that might not have happened if he hadn't had a recco reflector. Not the same as a beacon but same idea.

 

[Pastor]

Always wear a beacon.

Wear it because you care about others.

Your family, their family, other riders, everybody that enjoys snowmobiling.

You absolutely never know what might happen and if being prepared is an option then not being prepared is wrong.


Last year I watched two guys go into a dangerous area and warned them. I could not get them off my mind so I went back and practically begged them to not climb in that area on that particular day. It made them mad and they explained to me that they have been riding in the area for many years etc....

I told them that I respect that and went on to tell them that I care about them or I would not have risked offending them. Their atittude imediately changed and they thanked me for caring and promised me they would not climb in that area.

If they had there would have been an avalanche, the conditions were perfect and it has happened in that bowl many times before.

We have to watch out for each other and care enought to act for each other.

 

[550iq]

Thumbs up to you, Pastor.

 

[JPMan]

550 good points.
I feel every (digital) beacon has its advantages. More people need to spend more time practicing, would be the best answer.
I do like the S-1 from what I've seen, but that is my opinion.

 

[Van Epps]

Last year I watched two guys go into a dangerous area and warned them. I could not get them off my mind so I went back and practically begged them to not climb in that area on that particular day. It made them mad and they explained to me that they have been riding in the area for many years etc....

I told them that I respect that and went on to tell them that I care about them or I would not have risked offending them. Their atittude imediately changed and they thanked me for caring and promised me they would not climb in that area.

We have to watch out for each other and care enought to act for each other.

Good to hear!

a true ambassador

 

[EagleRiverDee]

I understand what 550IQ is saying.

Because I don't have the gear, and have a healthy respect for avalanches, I simply don't ride where avalanches occur. I don't ride Turnagain, or Squirrel Flats, or Lost Lake. I ride Petersville, Willow, Placer. Basically flat land riding.

I do plan on getting a beacon and probe this year. I have avalanche safety training but it's 10 years old and I would want a refresher course. That said, I knew one of the guys that was killed in the big avy at Turnagain several years back and since then I stay out of the mountains in the winter. I can have plenty of fun boondocking and playing in the powder at Petersville without worrying about a slide. The beacon and probe I buy would be in case I witnessed an avy from a distance and someone needed help, and the class would be to refresh my knowledge of how to read terraine and how to know if an already avalanched area would be safe to approach to assist in a search.

 

[aebsledder]

Well Put

Always wear a beacon.

Wear it because you care about others.

Your family, their family, other riders, everybody that enjoys snowmobiling.

You absolutely never know what might happen and if being prepared is an option then not being prepared is wrong.


Last year I watched two guys go into a dangerous area and warned them. I could not get them off my mind so I went back and practically begged them to not climb in that area on that particular day. It made them mad and they explained to me that they have been riding in the area for many years etc....

I told them that I respect that and went on to tell them that I care about them or I would not have risked offending them. Their atittude imediately changed and they thanked me for caring and promised me they would not climb in that area.

If they had there would have been an avalanche, the conditions were perfect and it has happened in that bowl many times before.

We have to watch out for each other and care enought to act for each other.

I have often wondered how to approach guys that you see riding in dangerous situations. I saw a group of guys in Cooke City this weekend taking turns highmarking a slope that was PERFECT avalanche terrain. I actually would have thought twice about riding into where they were doing it. Unfortunately, you can't save everyone from themselves sometimes. That being said, I would rather have a guy tell me off and think twice than put himself into a dangerous spot.