timber sled shock issues

[freeflorider]

Ill keep this a short as possible,
picked up a turbo nytro with a timersled skid that has fox floats. First ride suspension sagged to the ground??? added 150lbs of air didn't do much. Called t.s and was advised to move back shock up to front mount ,done. five min up the trail the shock mount snaps.
I had a new shaft made..3/4 stainless, installed in back hole with 145lbs in it, sagged to the ground when riding. moved it to the front hole and it seemed to fix the problem, next day went for a ride and at the end of the day I noticed the shaft is bent wtf.
Is my shock done? dumped all the air out and on the ground it still has some resistance to it. (but won't hold the suspension up)
Reinstalled it with 100lbs and layer over the back end to collapse the skid, the suspension goes down to all most bottoming out. shock problem???if i add more air it bends the shaft.
Is there a proper shock for the rear, its just a float shock and seams to function fine but am I bottoming out to bend this or is the shock locking up.
can't figure this out...help

 

[freeflorider]

pics

here is a few shots.
looks normal enough...145lbs back hole sitting on tail with me as 240lbs
sitting on tail with 240lbs, 100lbs in shock. still saggy and close to bottoming out?
what gives here!

 

[bholmlate]

The air in the fox float is like the coil over spring on a regular shock. its were you get the ride height on the sled. If you take all the air out the suspension will callapse because there is nothing to hold the sled up. that is why you need the skid off the ground to get the correct reading on the pressure gauge the resistance you feel is the nytrogen and oil/valve stack internal to the shock. The first thing i would do is measure the length of the shock and call Allen to see if it is the right length shock. you might be bottoming out the shock before the suspension and bending things that way.

If they are the right length i would start looking at getting them serviced and possibly revalved for your weight. I have run the fox flaot shocks on my N/A nytro for years without any problems at all. I had my rear shock revalved for my weight since i am 250 geared up and that was at the upper limit of the normal float shock.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

those shocks are far from new, if they came with that skid they are at least 3 years old i think now? wouldn't surprised if they just need a rebuild as your just losing pressure internally in the shock or something. get em rebuilt, eliminate one problem.

 

[freeflorider]

The air in the fox float is like the coil over spring on a regular shock. its were you get the ride height on the sled. If you take all the air out the suspension will callapse because there is nothing to hold the sled up. that is why you need the skid off the ground to get the correct reading on the pressure gauge the resistance you feel is the nytrogen and oil/valve stack internal to the shock. The first thing i would do is measure the length of the shock and call Allen to see if it is the right length shock. you might be bottoming out the shock before the suspension and bending things that way.

If they are the right length i would start looking at getting them serviced and possibly revalved for your weight. I have run the fox flaot shocks on my N/A nytro for years without any problems at all. I had my rear shock revalved for my weight since i am 250 geared up and that was at the upper limit of the normal float shock.

Thanks bholmlate, my thoughts exactly. I understand what your saying about the shock and feel there is something wrong here, length came to mind as well.

As pictured with the shock in the front hole on rail (back hole suspension just collapse) at 150 lbs it holds me up...little stiff if you jump on it but still. This is bending the shaft??? to stiff comes to mind or bottoming out. we are about the same weight geared up so what gives. track is off the ground when I check, new shock pump as well.

 

[freeflorider]

those shocks are far from new, if they came with that skid they are at least 3 years old i think now? wouldn't surprised if they just need a rebuild as your just losing pressure internally in the shock or something. get em rebuilt, eliminate one problem.

Yah not sure when or what, bought it used and Im just guessing now. sleds an 08 so ???? like I say shock feel fine but Im sure this is where the problem lies.
Grabbing a new shock might be better and less timely then sending it in to, any ideas or what might be better in the long run?

 

[bholmlate]

Yes there are better shocks out on the market for sure. the Fox float is a good shock and they work fine. they are just a little tough to get dialed in. Any weight you can save on the nytro is a good thing but with a turbo it not as bad. Its all about how much money you want to throw at it. I do have one question in the first picture it looks like there are two upper mounting holes in your drop bracket. Is there two or is it just a reflection in that first of three pictures. Why I ask if there is two because there should only be one on the TS nytro drop bracket. If whoever you bought it from was messing around with the mounting locations of the rear skid you can run into big problems quickly and the issues you are having could be linked to that. If the mounts are wrong on the skid it can bind up as the suspension travels which of course can cause things to bend and break. If the leverage on the shock is much greater then what is intended it can over power the shock and cause sagging and bottoming. The holes that TS is talking about are in the rails themselves where the bottom of the shock mounts to the rails. The forward hole changes the angle of the shock and if I am not mistaken stiffens the suspension. the rear hole lessens the angle increasing the leverage the skid has on shock and softens up the skid. If that dark circle I am seeing is a reflection then all the above is a moot point.

I would again talk with Allen at TS if you are thinking of switching shocks because with the older suspension kits you may have clearance issues with the EVOL and some coil over shocks. I wanted to go with the newer EVOL shock because you can buy an update kit for the standard FLoat shock for $300 that updated it to the EVOL but with my 08 TS skid Allen told me that there would be clearance issues.

PS I am 250 lbs geared up and run 145 PSI in my rear shock and 90 in the mid shock and have no problems with bottoming I don't launch myself off cliffs however. just so you have reference.

 

[Blown Motor]

All great suggestions so far, and first off we would like to thank you for not starting this thread out as a bash! Sounds like you 100% understand that you bought a used sled and suspension and are willing to try and figure it out! That is great, and we commend you for this take on the situation, as many others would have started out with "Timbersled Sucks" ha, so HUGE kudos for that!

As mentioned many of these solutions sound like a great place to start, one thing that we also noticed, which again could be just the pics. But is there a 1/4" spacer above the slide joint, and then a 1/2" and 1/4" spacer below the slide? This seems like an issue as well that may cause binding! First thing is first, get a shock that you know is holding pressure. Then mount it and see if that is the issue. Although the shock can feel normal in your hands if it is bottoming out it will bend shafts very bad. If you know you have a good shock, then start taking pictures and dealing with TS direct to get the setup that is perfect for you.

 

[freeflorider]

First off I want to thank the guys for all the help, sometimes better off to ask and then decide from there.
Good eye on the drop bracket, looks like the sled may of had an ez ride or some other suspention at one point. It's a cr tunnel so I'm not sure what that's all about. I have talked to Allen and he gave me measurements which all look right, we talked and have done everything I can think of so having the shocks redone is next on the list.
Everything seems to be in order with no binding goes up and down, measures out right so must be a sneaky shock causing me problems.
I moved the shock forward 7/8 inch as TS recomended and yah it stiffens it up...to much. At 150 lbs in the back hole it should keep things up but seeing as it collapse I'm quite sure the shock is the problem now.
Last of all no brand bashing here as these are made by man and it will brake, just glad to have the time to tinker and become smarter about what we ride.
Cheers

 

[freeflorider]

As mentioned many of these solutions sound like a great place to start, one thing that we also noticed, which again could be just the pics. But is there a 1/4" spacer above the slide joint, and then a 1/2" and 1/4" spacer below the slide? This seems like an issue as well that may cause binding!

This is right from TS web page. Turbo nytro up to 280 hp...add 1/2 shim top and 3/4 shim bottom, that was the way it came and I scratched my head but it's confirmed to be right. Like I said it all goes up and down all right.
I felt it was being restricted from moving up all the way but Allen said I must lift the front of the sled to see why it's designed this way...not going to question what is all ready known by the pros.

 

[Blown Motor]

This is right from TS web page. Turbo nytro up to 280 hp...add 1/2 shim top and 3/4 shim bottom, that was the way it came and I scratched my head but it's confirmed to be right. Like I said it all goes up and down all right.
I felt it was being restricted from moving up all the way but Allen said I must lift the front of the sled to see why it's designed this way...not going to question what is all ready known by the pros.

Awesome, glad you already know that is not the issue, best of luck, and let us know when you get a new shock in place!!

 

[freeflorider]

So the shocks were rebuilt or shall I say resealed. No better results as I have bent the back shock shaft again...took measurements from my buddy's timbersled nytro skid and it's Bang on so now I'm left still thinking it's the shocks. What's left.

 

[Blown Motor]

So the shocks were rebuilt or shall I say resealed. No better results as I have bent the back shock shaft again...took measurements from my buddy's timbersled nytro skid and it's Bang on so now I'm left still thinking it's the shocks. What's left.

Borrow the shocks out of your buddies skid for a day...easy and free option. Still think those shocks are garbage if everything else is dead on the same.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

if geometry is correct, that is the ONLY way the shaft can bend. the shock is locking up somehow and bending it. bet it rides like a board also.

 

[kidwoo]

How deep did whoever did the seals go into the shock?

That looks like a quintessential 'stuck down' air shock. Air breaches the main spring seal and gets built up into the negative chamber. Then you're riding so far down into the travel from so much sag, you reach the bottom out point much easier, quicker and more violent, hence the bent mounts.

 

[freeflorider]

How deep did whoever did the seals go into the shock?

That looks like a quintessential 'stuck down' air shock. Air breaches the main spring seal and gets built up into the negative chamber. Then you're riding so far down into the travel from so much sag, you reach the bottom out point much easier, quicker and more violent, hence the bent mounts.

Yep, having shocks rebuilt by someone that says I'm the best does not always work. I choose to use my head and know when I'm beat.
New fox evols coming from timbersled. We're wasting to much good riding looking for cheep options to an easy fix. Can't wait to feel the wind in my hair lol.