THOUGHTS AND OBSERVATIONS?? POLARIS SKI SPINDLE CHANGES AND SKI RUBBER-SNUBBERS.

[mountainhorse]

So this is a big question that has been sitting on my mind today as a I type away at end of year bookkeeping...(argh)

What Changed in the spindles?

1) Why does C&A have two different mounts for the PRO RMK"s.... One for the 2011 and one for the 2012-2014 on the SAME SKI and no one else seems to?

2) Are they on to something? (I'm leaning towards this)

3) Do people with the 2011's have the same problem with the stock gripper skis?

Anyone that actually owns one that can speak with experience?
(ie... Did anyone that owns a 2011 with stock grippers and snubbers have an experience like that shown in meathookers photo above?)
The reason that I ask is that the Polaris facory installs, in 2011, the same snubber (Polaris #5412794 ) in the same Gripper ski (Polaris #1823660-070 ) as they install in the 2012-2013-2014 sleds... For which, C&A actually offer two separate mount kits????? HMMMMMM. (One mount is much shorter for the C&A)

One of the things that I find strange when you look at the Gripper skis, snubbers and spindles through the different model years of the PRO RMK... And I see 3 different part number for spindles.

In the Polaris Gripper skis... all the same part number in respective colors... they all carry the same snubber...

So a new question... Do all of the sleds have the same "folding" issues.

HMMMMM??

Polaris offers one snubber for 2010 - 2014 pro chassis with the SAME grippers.

C&A offers 2 different snubbers for the same skis... 2010/11 (pn 76000270) and 2012/13/14 (pn 76000224)

Slydogs offers one snubber for 2011 - 2014 for the same skis.

SLP offers one snubber for 2011 - 2014 800's (EXCEPT the 600's ) for the same skis

USI offers one snubber for the 2011 - 2014 for the same skis.

Curve industries offers one snubber for all 2011 - 2014


What is different in the spindles... and has it caused a problem with the stock rubbers??

2010/11 Pro Chassis C&A Snubbers on left.......................................... 2012-13-14 PRO CHASSIS C&A snubbers on right

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[diamonddave]

I've thought about this as well but I just figured there might have been a running production change to the rubber or the ski itself.

The brain never slows down Eric...

 

[Snodawg]

All I know is when installed the C&A Snubbers on my 2011, it felt like the front end was more responsive and firmer. My skis were no longer just flopping around for the ride. They work. BTW. I used a die grinder with an aluminum bit to make grooves in the bottom of the rubber to fit into the ski. Worked awesome.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Eric, we have fought this issue since the dragons..I have always carried spare rubbers with me..what causes them to split is the ski getting bent up to far... I have had good luck in heating the front and rear wall of the gripper ski that holds the rubber in place and bending them inward to hold the rubber tighter. if you notice, its rare that a brand new ski pinches the rubber, but over time if you watch the ski/rubber/spindle relation as the ski tip is forced up you will see that the frt/rear walls start to deform outward from the rubber, once this opens up even a little the frequency of split rubbers increases.. I heat them with a propane torch, use a big pair of clamp style vice grips and heat both ends and clamp them till cool, install new rubber and good to go again until they get flexed back out......

 

[richracer1]

I noticed first thing how floppy the skis were, even brand new. Figured I give a go since it's been a few years since running the grippers. After the first trip out on my '14 with Grippers, they came off, ordered some SLP saddles and put my Powder Pros on. Hated the way they push in every turn. Probably go in tomorrow and pick up a set of SLP MoHawks so I can put the P-Pros back on the '09.

 

[mountainhorse]

Thanks for the comments... The main questions in bold are what I'm looking to discuss here in this thread...Not solutions to using other snubbers or solutions to the problem... That is what other threads like this one are focusing on.


Q:

1) Why, on the SAME ski, would C&A run a shorter snubber for their skis on a 2011 compared 2012-2014 .... and why does the Polaris factory use the SAME snubber for these different years?


2) Are they (C&A) on to something that the others are not ? (I'm leaning towards this)

3) Do people with the 2011's have the same problem with the stock gripper skis?


From what I remember, C&A said a while back on the phone, their #76000224 snubber (2012+) will not even fit onto a 2011 PRO RMK with the same ski....And if you run the shorter #76000270 in the 2012+ sleds with the same C&A Ski, it will be loose.

At the time, I did not give it much thought.

I hope that LH or others that can do a side by side comparison of the two spindles, 2011 vs 2012+ can chime in here.







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[mountainhorse]

More confused??

Ok... NOW I'm even more confused.

It seems that the same spindle is used on the 2013/2014 sleds... but the break happens at the 2012 and previous... and the 600's are different.
In 2013, the STANDARD 600 RMK got the new spindle but NOT the 600 PRO-RMK... HUH????

I don't see any "superseed" or cosmetic changes (like one is black the other is natural, but NO)... though I may be missing something simple.

The following are the Factory Polaris Fische results for the RH spindle part numbers. 2012 and previous 800... and 2013/14 600's

Wondering what the diff is? Wondering why the diff mounts on the C&A's?

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[mountainhorse]

Well, just found out from a factory contact that the ski spindles themselves are Identical from 2011 through current on all PRO RMK's and RMKs ... One has bronze bushings the other has plastic.



HMM... Why the different snubbers on the C&A....Next call ...C&A in the morning.
















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[milo303]

Always love seeing you dig up and resolve interesting stuff MH

 

[POLZIN]

This is interesting . I have SLP powder pros and I replaced the rubbers on both because the right rubber was torn. One ride and the right is torn again! Im wondering why this is happening and why Just the right.

 

[AkLogan]

If you have even installed the C&A's with what i am assuming the old bushings. I understand why they came out with a new bushing. Man those bushings are a Pain in the A.

 

[winter brew]

This is interesting . I have SLP powder pros and I replaced the rubbers on both because the right rubber was torn. One ride and the right is torn again! Im wondering why this is happening and why Just the right.

I have noticed on SLP ski mounts, they will get dented under the rubber. Also, there is nothing to contain the rubber fore- aft on the mount so they stretch more and break quickly....at least that was my experience on the Doo and they use similar mounts. They seem to break sooner if the mount is dented.

 

[mountainhorse]

I just got off the Phone with Eddy at C&A.

The 266 snubber is designed to give more compression of the rubber during installation and be more resistant to the "folding" issue shown above.

The thinner snubber that people are using in the grippers skis, C&A #76000270, is compressed much less in THE C&A than the '266 snubber and is, according to Eddy, less resistant to the folding issues.



This new snubber does, indeed, angle the nose of the ski up slightly (about 7 degrees according to my measurements.... Eddy said that was a carryover from what they used in the snowcross skis and it seems to work well for them.
Next season, they will have only one mount kit for the PRO-chassis sleds (2010-present)

Looking at the spindle and how it sits in the rubber... IMO... It would be great if the "beak" in front of the ski-bolt were a bit longer to engage more of the rubber.. that would be an easy change to the extrusion die.

 

[diamonddave]

2011 600 RMK's were still built on the IQ-Raw chassis so that would explain that.

 

[IQ?]

Have had the ski-folding problems since 2007 when the grippers came out....
Have used C&A rubbers and a plate-Everything else sucks....
Saw some post with some doo rubbers gonna try that one too
Edvard