Things to know about the Turbo xp

[Skyking]

First off just want to say the Brice and Josh of Turbo Performance have been great to work with. Customer service is top notch. When I was so frustrated with my sled, they told me to drop it off and they went threw it all,and took it out and rode it all for free.

I just want to let guys know my experience so that maybe they don't have to go threw what I have. I got my kit back in November sometime. I put it on myself. It took me a few days. Instructions I give an 5 put of 10. I think there may have been a few pages missing. Brice was great to answer calls and help out. I got the kit with the 6 pound spring in the waste gate. Also got the boost tee to be able to adjust the boost up. Decided to go with the air/fuel gauge. The first set of gauges they sent lasted one ride. The boost and fuel pressure ones. So Brice sent me out some new autometer ones. I went from the 320 mains jets to the 310's that they recommend. Keep the 15 pilot jets. Fuel screw the same. I started out running 100 avgas. I ride from 6500 feet at the parking lot to 9500 feet.
Well the first time I went out it was really rich in the middle and good on the top. The first two pull had the check engine light flash on then go off. It was running 13.3 F/A So Truned the power jet out a half a turn. Anything under 13 A/F the engine light would not come on. So ran it at 12.2 I tried turning the boost up to 8. Really could not tell where it ended up at. The gauge was flickering from 5 to 10. Made a few more pulls until it got dark. I was excited about it at this time. This is going to be fun. Sorry to say that was the last time I had any good feelings about a turbo xp.

Well after taking it out 6- 7 more times tryin different pilot jets, niddle setting, and fuel screws settings to get the thing to run. Lots of calls to Brice. It would not idle or run at all. It was very very frustrating. One thing that I did learn is that the sled does bog bad when you turn to the right. The only fix for this is some kind of home made intake for the turbo. I guess Turbo performance has one that they are coming out with. So now add that to the cost of the kit. This is the point that I said this turbo thing is not worth it. I did not get the kit to have to have this many problems with it. Brice said bring it up, he will go over the whole kit. Well he found a hole in the carb boot, and a blow bellow. He finally got it to idle after taking the carbs all apart, plus taking them on and off the sled three times. He also changed the vacuum line from the bottom of the case to the carbs, to try and help with the run on. So Josh went and rode it. Said it ran great. Still has the run on when it is cold. Did not turn the boost up passed 6.

So thinking sweet! It will finally work. So took it out a few days later. Idled good, started good, still had the run on on the trail. Got up into the trees and some snow. Tried turning up the boost. Wanted to get to 8 pounds. Now I was running 7g race gas 3g 91 pump gas. I keep turning the boost tee up. No change in the boost. That sucks. So turned to boost back all the way down. Fuel pressure was acting funny too. Josh had it set to idle at 5psi. Rode a few more miles. Something started feeling funny again. O great! Here we go again. Back to the trailer. Found one of the bellows was blown , and the fuel pressure line had a hole, as well as the boost gauge. Ok easy fix. So now it should work! Next time out made it 3 miles up the trail. Are you kidding me. Would not run, sounded like crap. Stock pipe had like a 1 1/2 foot crack. So now I learned you can't run the stock pipe on the turbo xp. Great! Wish I new that up front. So order a CPI turbo pipe. $400 said it would be ready in a week. Called them a week later and they have not even started on it. Maybe next week.
So in the mean time I weld my stock pipe up. I can't wait any longer. Want to see if this thing will finally work. So we go out riding with two guys that have XP's that are thinking of this kit. I figure this is the last time to redeem myself. Well three miles from the truck in the flats. Boost is a 6. 8 gallons race gas. Fuel screw 1 1/2 turns out. A/F 10-11.5 BOOM! I loss power and the thing sounds like my pipe cracked again. So I get back to the shop. Right cylinder 0 compression. Left one is 85 down from 120. So started taking it all apart. Looks good as far as rich or lean. Part of the right piston ring is gone, which put a big dent in the exhust side of the cylinder. Left piston looks like something came through the intake. Scuffing on the intake side of the piston. Cylinders are toast. So then looked into the turbo. The piston ring took out the blades of the turbo.

So here is the damage
Turbo kit 5200.00
New card boots 190.00 for two. Must replace when you put the kit on.
Turbo pipe 400.00 a must.
New two ring pistons, and top end kit. 360.00
Fix cylinder 380.00
New blades for turbo. 380.00
New intake to stop the bog $?

Would I recommend this kit to someone else. No!!! The Turbo boys guys are great. I think there is still a lot of thing that they need to figure out. If your one that like to tinker, and figure thing out. This will work for you. Plug and play kit? No not at all.

During all this time my brother put a Boondockers race gas turbo on his Dragon. That is a true plug a play setup. They have everything figured out to a tee. He has turned his up to 12 pounds boost no problem. That is a sweet kit! We ride with a guy the has the Boondockers turbo Pro. They just did the lestest fuel mapping update. They have that thing dialed now. I think that's the way to go. Stick with the EFI kits. Trask looks like they have a clean kit for the E-tech.

I am going to give this one more try. Put all these new parts on and see what happens. Thanks guys for all your help. Cross your finger

Cory

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

I feel your pain Skyking!!!

TURBO KIT..................................$5000+
MISC PARTS................................$$$
WELDING STOCK PIPE...................$$$
RACE FUEL..................................GOTTA HAVE IT
CHIT EATIN GRIN..........................PRICELESS
PARTS AFTER STOCK PIPE FAILS........$$$$$$THOUSANDS$$$$$$$

 

[utah_sledder]

Bummer deal man. While I very much agree that turbos are not for everyone, my experience is quite the opposite. It sucks that you have had so much trouble.

I have over 1800 miles on boost and absolutly love my sled. I have never blown a bellows, I welded my pipe before I put the kit on, I built my own intake, and my sled has never bogged on the exhaust side. I did ingest some snow/water before the custom intake but since then it has never skipped a beat. Everyone who rides my T-XP is absolutly amazed at the power and responsivness. I very rarely have to make adjustments to my fuel screws. My last 4 rides I have not touched my fuel screws. I have 320 mains with my fuel screws set at 1/4 out. I watch my EGT's on the trail it can get lean in the midrange but a little blip of the throttle and it cools it down. I run 2-1/2 gallons of VP 110 on every tank. I have my boost set at 7 lbs which means it bounces around between 6 and 8 but usually settles in at about 6-1/2 to 7 on a hard pull. I have slight run on down the trail when things are cold but I never really race up the trail, so most of the time the turbo is only building 2-3 lbs of boost.

I am not telling you this story sky-king to rub it in your face...I am telling you because I think once you work out the kinks you will love your sled. BTW, you don't HAVE to buy a turbo pipe. The stock pipe works great it just needs to be welded correctly.

I know you are pretty bitter about the whole deal....but you can take it one of two ways. You can be pissed, light a match and toss it in the tank and go buy a PRO, or you can be greatful that you have had the opportunity to learn so much about your sled. I bet if it wasnt for this turbo kit you would probably not have spent so much time learning about: jetting, EGT's, AFR's, fuel pressure, boost, clutching, bellows, carb removal etc. So now you can take all that knowlege and apply it to your turbo sled.

That is just my .02

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

The welds did not gail on my stock pipe. It was the internal stinger that seperated.

 

[spacehog21]

Cory I know (experienced) many of the things you are describing
and I see what you have gone through


Thomas Edison invented the first commercially practical incandescent light
He did so only after over 2000 failed experiments


The Turbo Boys are great guys
- without builders like them and all the testing done most of us would be only halfway up the mountian on a snowy day


There are some who find great joy in their turbo XPs - others have gone to efi sleds or yamaha fourstroke boost

a boosted sled can last 10,000 miles and go thousands of feet higher in the mountians than any stock sled

Such a sled takes tuning, improvements, troubleshooting, machining, creativity, knowledge, trial and error etc... that someone has done


If you are determined to have a strong running turbo then do not let up, hold back or lose sight of that focus - persist, learn and make it happen

 

[Revanator]

Cory, sorry you have had problems with your turbo, sounds like it was one thing right after another, which makes for a frustrating experience when you just want to go out and pin the throttle wide-open.

The biggest thing with turbos it seems is there can be so many things that go wrong, and everything has to be close to perfect for it to work. I was told by TurboAl "a turbo sled is only as good as the tuner" and unfortunately, hes right, and sometimes it comes as a cost. Sounds like you were doing alot of things right and did your homework, hang with it (I know it seems like a money pit)! When you get it runnin good, its a blast! and if you keep your boost set and run the similar fuel you wont have to mess with it all. Just pull the rope and go! I rarely have to ever mess with my power jets, usually just to fine tune a 1/4 turn depending on temp, elevation. And thats on a 860 twin turbo.... which supposedly is impossible to boost. Boosted Xp's are way awesome! Best of luck to ya, hopefully hear some good news!

 

[fredw]

sad to hear cory, i had similar exsperiences 15 years ago with turboing the 670, numerous cranks, pistons, jugs, blown pipes, chopper rides and so on, made buddies not want to ride with me, i actually was so upset i took a year off sledding, i really do feel your pain where you try so hard and cannot make it work

my word of advice is to get rid if it, take your loss, declare defeat, and go back to a stocker where you can find reliabilty once agian, after a year or two you will push the envelop again, but you will be much smarter the next time, worked for me and now running a bb with a smile bigger than my face

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

I am in the same boat as you right now,Skyking. I can only assume that the failed stock pipe on my sled caused detonation which broke off a piece of a piston on the pto side and broke the ring locator pin on the mag side and gouged the cylinder. So,i am waiting for new cylinder and pistons and custom turbo pipe. Have to pull my crankcase out this wekend just to make sure that there are no failed seals or bearings to confirm that it was the pipe that caused my problems.
But,like you,Ihave been chasing leaks from day 1. It has been a year with this kit and only 300 miles on it. It would run great one day,park it,and then it doesnt even idle!!! I have far too much money invested to quit and to stubborn to not make it work.

 

[nuttyn01]

Stock

In my opinion...the stock pipe will work but it has to be welded and reinforced from day 1. If you dont and have added boost you have already stressed the pipe and will be chasing the cracks. The stinger also has to be removed from day 1. It will eventually come loose and has the potential to send steel/weld through your turbo. My only problems have been associated with leaks of some sort and figuring out the jetting. It started with the reed boots delaminating....this is when the girdles starting being incorporated with the reed boots. I am also a believer now that you need the rave valves. The problem is they will eventually blow off or blow out. I do know of a manufacturer that has sent out some valves for trials that will be boost proof. I am patiently waiting for feedback. I have been using egt's from day one and I believe that they are a much better tuning tool than the A/F ratio gauge alone.

Good luck Corey.

 

[theshadowrider]

I am in the same boat as you right now,Skyking. I can only assume that the failed stock pipe on my sled caused detonation which broke off a piece of a piston on the pto side and broke the ring locator pin on the mag side and gouged the cylinder. So,i am waiting for new cylinder and pistons and custom turbo pipe. Have to pull my crankcase out this wekend just to make sure that there are no failed seals or bearings to confirm that it was the pipe that caused my problems.
But,like you,Ihave been chasing leaks from day 1. It has been a year with this kit and only 300 miles on it. It would run great one day,park it,and then it doesnt even idle!!! I have far too much money invested to quit and to stubborn to not make it work.

How long did you run it with a crack in the pipe?

 

[gus bohne]

Broken internal stingers is a common unknown issue.
repeat burndowns, weird fuel curves, and low end bogs all are symptoms of stinger failure.
Internal stingers DO NOT belong on a turbo.. bad deal ,, should have been eliminated from the get go..

BRP has a bulletin on stinger failures in stockers,, its nothing new to them..

There is a reason to use a turbo specific pipe, this is one of them..

After riding a proto e tech turbo my contact at the race shop was far from impressed.. BOG was the first word from his mouth,, why do they bog ??

The jetting you speak of is RICHER than we run at sea level..that makes no sense..

turbos are a work of love. or hate then back to love when its finally running right..

EVERY sled is different and every turbo is different too.

good luck

Gus

 

[badass1000]

sorry to hear about all of your problems.
I don't mean to rub it in your face, but my xp has ben runing great. turbo all last year and turbo this year. not a whole lot of miles this year because the snow is ****ty and I don't like riding if the snow is not good. I really wish we had more snow.
I havn't touched a single thing on my turbo xp yet this year. Only issue is my recoil broke and it was towed out for the first time since i bought it in dec of 07.
I did go through it before this season and put new pistons in it, isoflexed the crank, checked crank runout .0020, and had primary balanced, found a torn carb boot, and power valve bellow. it seized last ride of last year. the pto side mag seal was bad. leaking two strok oil out the seal. I am sure this is what caused the pto side piston to seize.
I use cheap spi t molly pistons and no problems. I ran 7psi on pump all last year. with the tial external wastegate and 7.3lb spring in the waste gate the boost pressure is rock solid at 7.3psi. I ran premium non ethanol pump all last year, but one out of ever 10 rides or so the gas wasn't as good or some thing and the knock sensor would go off. my buddys 08 with pipe and head would do the same thing and on the same days it had problems. So to eliminate that I started putting in one gallon of 107 motor octane fuel in per tank this year.
I put stainless stell safety wire around the base of the bellow and epoxy the bellow to the plastic cap. I have not had the bellows blow apart any more, but I have now had two bellows rip on me. One last year and one this year. for now I just put a dab of silicone on the small rip this year and amazingly it is still holding up. on a type from bryce at turbo performance I have a t in the line to in increase solenoid to the bellows to bleed off presure to them, but it is not bleeding off enough I guess. On a tip from gus bohne I looked around and found a reliefe valve that I will T into the bellows. it is supposed to bleed off any presure over 3psi so the power valves should not see any presure over 3psi. After I get that hooked up I will turn the boost up to 10psi and run 25% 107 motor octane fuel. I did run some extra race in it and turned it up to 10-12lbs a few times last year. Even up to 25lbs on accident once. that was fun.
I am runing 3psi fuel presure at idle with the 1:1 fuel reg hooked up to the back side of the carbs so it sees a little vacuume at idle. I believe it is around 5psi fuel presureat idle with the vacuume line disconnected. I am down to 12.5 pilots now. stock needles shimed out as far as they will go and 360 mains. power jets usually about 1 turn out. don't really touch them very often. 6-9000' most of the time. with 15 pilots it used to load up if I let the sled idle for a long time especially when going down hill. now with the 12.5's it will do it ever once in awhile, but not as bad as with the 15's. Just blip the throttle once in awhile if doing a long down hill section through the trees.
I have a tial blow off valve. I have the smallest spring I can get for it. 3psi. it sticks a little bit or has a little run on when I first start riding it for the day. After I have rode it for awhile it quites having run on.
i try to have my egts at 1250 max on a long pull.
it does bog a little on right hand side hills in deep powder some times. I still havn't made a prefilter intake for it yet.

 

[badass1000]

nuttyn01
I am intereste in hearing about the power valves. are they from supreme tool?
I will try the reliefe valve when it shows up since I already paid for it. if I have another bellow rip I will check into the different power valves.

 

[swrev]

This might be a dumb question--how are you removing the internal stingers. I'd like to eliminate a future problem. My sled has block offs from R & D so I am not having any powervalve issues. I've been lucky, sled had 500 miles w/ boost when I bought it-about 1050 tota. This sled has literally been pull and go but I have only put about 100 miles since owning it. I have no idea what I'm jetted at but am not having any issues loading up. Good luck Cory

 

[nuttyn01]

valves

yes...supreme tool....I run his block offs now and know I am sacrificing bottom end but also know they wont fail...I hope he starts producing soon.

nuttyn01
I am intereste in hearing about the power valves. are they from supreme tool?
I will try the reliefe valve when it shows up since I already paid for it. if I have another bellow rip I will check into the different power valves.

 

[nuttyn01]

stinger

You have to cut a window in the pipe to remove it....I am not 100% sure were the stinger is attached internally as mine was alread loose. I am pretty sure it is back by the flange were the pipe necks down and ties into the muffler/turbo.

This might be a dumb question--how are you removing the internal stingers. I'd like to eliminate a future problem. My sled has block offs from R & D so I am not having any powervalve issues. I've been lucky, sled had 500 miles w/ boost when I bought it-about 1050 tota. This sled has literally been pull and go but I have only put about 100 miles since owning it. I have no idea what I'm jetted at but am not having any issues loading up. Good luck Cory

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

I dont have cracks in my pipe...the stinger came apart. I had problems with idling and rich and lean and run on the day after I had great success with 14 psi boost. I can only assume that I blew the stinger out then and didnt know it. The next time I tried to ride it I was chasing ghosts. It wasnt until I had to replace a pawl in my pullcord and had to take my pipe off that I discovered the stinger was ****ed.There were many trial rides bx the time it ran well and the pullcord failed.....so who knows what happened during that time.
I am still positive as it did run great ...once...and it will run again....just costing a lot of extra $$$$$$$$ and down time. Had I known that the stinger might be an issue...I would have ordered a turbo pipe from the beginning,but no where on this site in the last 1-2 years did anyone suggest that the stock pipe was no good. Weld the seams and it will be ok....bad advice...imo.
Buy a good pipe and put that ghost to rest.
Too much time and money to stop now....plus a little stubborness.

 

[High Roller]

Sorry to hear! Carb turbos arent for the everyone. Even efi turbos aren't for everyone. Tunning and wrenching will always be part of two stroke turbos! But when they run it's all worth it.. The new stand alone system on the four stroke are the way to go for those that want less work. They are getting very close to a turbo car... Keep boostin'

 

[badass1000]

yes...supreme tool....I run his block offs now and know I am sacrificing bottom end but also know they wont fail...I hope he starts producing soon.

I almost bought a set of the rave valve blockoffs from supreme tool before I ordered the reliefe valve. I was afraid I would loose throttle responce with them just blocked off. I would like to try riding it with the valves eliminated, but didn't want to spend $180 just to try it out.
right now if a bellow does happen to rip the throttle responce just isn't as good. it won't end your day and you don't have to be towed home. it is actually so un noticable that usually I don't even know that it riped. I just think that it felt not quite as good and check the bellows to see if they are riped.
Also the boysen turbo reeds for stock reed cages are highly recomended. I ran them all last year with no problems and they still looked like new when I pulled them out at the begining of this year. I wanted to try the boysen rage cages with their turbo reeds in them. Also I like that the rage cage goes up into the carb boot aways and hopefully supports them so they do not rip. I have heard that some have had the reeds fail, but wanted to try them out anyways. so far so good. Just make sure to double check that the screws holding the reeds to the cages are tightened. I did not since they came from boysen assembled. one of the reeds imediatly fell out. Sled ran like **** and couldn't figure out what was wrong. Luckily the screws were long enough that they couldn't come all the way out of the cage before hitting the case and held the screws and reeds in and didn't go in the engine.

 

[lookup]

I have pretty much the same story all the way along it is not for everyone to have a turbo but i knew this going into the deal but when you pull the trigger the fun factor over rides the pain in your wallet i also have two 2010 800's so i don't get discouraged as easy i learned a long time ago keep your spare STOCK