There goes western Montana - thanks for nothing Senator Tester

[IdahoDragon]

P.S. This beetle problem is mostly because of the enviromentalists it could have been stopped along time ago look at the mass devistation it has caused us all, they should be ashamed and not trusted one bit. JMO enough said.

Fact

 

[donbrown]

I've thought of this too.
I think the cost of the lawers alone to do this is more than what the organizations have to fight the greenies with.
QUOTE]

Because they free funding plus free or near free legal representation.

 

[eddy]

Wilderness

1) When a Wilderness designation is made there is no motorized use in the area PERIOD, end of story for snowmobile use, party over!
2) You can not compromise when you get nothing in return
3) Land use Organizations and Snowmobile club input has been the most effective weapon to get closures stopped.
4) Being involved in these organizations and contributing resources and time is the only way we can make progress on stopping closures.
5) Please refer to dirt bike riding 30 years ago vs today. It is even easier for the closures today because most of the land we as snowmobilers are concerned with is Federal and it can be closed with a stroke of a pen

I respectfully disagree with Dan and Don views. When we get wilderness created everyone loses and snowmobilers lose the most. Look at the Map for Testers wilderness near Mount Jefferson. Riding in that area is over if this passes. You want to ride trails and just stay on trails? Great, you may be able to do that on the east side of Hwy 20 between Island park and Yellowstone.

Snowmobiling near MT Jefferson, by the map I saw, is a distant memory if this passes.

Why do we just lose areas year after year? The other side uses organizations that have power. We need to do the same!

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

Who's going to force the enviros to give up anything? Brc? Saws? Us? Whos going to do it? No ones seems to be doing any good so far.

Not to get pissy, but SAWS is trying the best we can, with too few members and too few coin.

Our MT SAWS Rep, Janine Stewart, does one heck of a fu*&%$ing job, all by herself in MT. Does anyone want to help her out? NO!. She has asked over and over, but no one has the time.

How the h@ll can we win this fight when so few care? We can't. The clock is ticking.

Do I have the answers? Nope.

Just doing what I can with the help of too few (very special volunteers) that do care.

Sorry for the rant, but yes, I can get pi$$ed off too.

 

[SnowSnob]

Never fails, a closure is about to happen, people on here beotch but still won't do anything to stop the next one.
DONATE, DONATE, DONATE
If you can't afford to then volunteer in some way and make a bigger difference.
I'm not holding my breathe and think I just might get back into sking so I'll have something to do in the winter.

 

[donbrown]

1) When a Wilderness designation is made there is no motorized use in the area PERIOD, end of story for snowmobile use, party over!
2) You can not compromise when you get nothing in return
3) Land use Organizations and Snowmobile club input has been the most effective weapon to get closures stopped.
4) Being involved in these organizations and contributing resources and time is the only way we can make progress on stopping closures.
5) Please refer to dirt bike riding 30 years ago vs today. It is even easier for the closures today because most of the land we as snowmobilers are concerned with is Federal and it can be closed with a stroke of a pen

I respectfully disagree with Dan and Don views. When we get wilderness created everyone loses and snowmobilers lose the most. Look at the Map for Testers wilderness near Mount Jefferson. Riding in that area is over if this passes. You want to ride trails and just stay on trails? Great, you may be able to do that on the east side of Hwy 20 between Island park and Yellowstone.

Snowmobiling near MT Jefferson, by the map I saw, is a distant memory if this passes.

Why do we just lose areas year after year? The other side uses organizations that have power. We need to do the same!

Where is the disagreement?

All I am saying is we are losing the battle, and the war.

People relate to the envirozealots in the big city where most americans live today.

The legal community, courts, and present administration tend to favor "wilderness" over motorized land use.

We are not "saturating" everyone with our point of view.

Sorry guys living near a big city people here don't care about any about our cause. (I get loads of flak for having sleds) Here in California they know our water comes from the mountains and environmentalist tell everyone here having a sled in the forest pollutes. And we in the city end up drnking oil and gas exhaust from vehicles in the forest. They are told this everyday ... repeted over and over and over.

OUR GROUPS MUST MARKET WHAT EVERYONE HAS IN COMMON OR WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE RIDING AREAS.

We need to advise the $$$ supporting the politicians in order to get them to notice how vital recreation is in America.

Again , it is not being completed, at least what I see it is an ineffective campaign.

 

[donbrown]

Tell me who on here knows what each group does and if any benefit from snowmobiling?

Who on this list knows what the legal definition of the term "wilderness" on Federal land?

1 ActBlue $103,491 $103,491 $0
2 Moveon.org $62,790 $62,790 $0
3 Council for a Livable World $49,684 $41,180 $8,504
4 State of Montana $16,704 $16,704 $0
5 University of Montana $15,300 $15,300 $0
6 Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $15,000 $0 $15,000
6 Plumbers/Pipefitters Union $15,000 $0 $15,000
8 Keeping America's Promise $14,072 $14,072 $0
9 Fortress Investment Group $12,600 $12,600 $0
10 Democracy for America $12,175 $7,500 $4,675
11 First Interstate BancSystem $12,100 $9,100 $3,000
12 GMG Capital Partners $11,650 $11,650 $0
13 Citigroup Inc $11,600 $9,100 $2,500
14 Baron & Budd $11,250 $11,250 $0
15 Wells Fargo $11,200 $1,200 $10,000
16 American Assn for Justice $10,500 $500 $10,000
17 Bain Capital $10,300 $10,300 $0
17 DE Shaw & Co $10,300 $10,300 $0
19 University of California $10,200 $10,200 $0
20 American Academy of Ophthalmology $10,000 $0 $10,000
20 American Crystal Sugar $10,000 $0 $10,000
20 Glacier PAC $10,000 $0 $10,000
20 Independent Community Bankers of America $10,000 $0 $10,000
20 KidsPAC $10,000 $0 $10,000
20 Laborers Union $10,000 $0 $10,000
20 Washington Women for Choice $10,000 $0 $10,000
27 NARAL Pro-Choice America $9,750 $0 $9,750
28 Amgen Inc $8,500 $1,500 $7,000
29 National Amusements Inc $8,300 $8,300 $0
29 Working Assets Funding Service $8,300 $8,300 $0
31 Newmark Knight Frank $8,200 $8,200 $0
32 Autoparts International $8,000 $8,000 $0
32 DLA Piper $8,000 $3,000 $5,000
34 Anheuser-Busch $7,750 $250 $7,500
35 International Game Technology $7,500 $0 $7,500
35 National Air Traffic Controllers Assn $7,500 $0 $7,500
37 Patton Boggs LLP $7,250 $2,250 $5,000
38 Planned Parenthood $7,100 $2,100 $5,000
39 American Federation of Teachers $7,000 $0 $7,000
39 National Assn of Letter Carriers $7,000 $0 $7,000
41 Goldman Sachs $6,600 $6,600 $0
42 National Basketball Assn $6,450 $6,450 $0
43 Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp $6,350 $850 $5,500
44 Miller & Chevalier $6,250 $1,250 $5,000
45 RealNetworks Inc $6,200 $6,200 $0
46 Morgens Waterfall & Co $6,100 $6,100 $0
47 Skyline Public Works $6,053 $6,053 $0
48 Missoula Anesthesiology $6,050 $6,050 $0
49 AFLAC Inc $6,000 $0 $6,000
49 National Treasury Employees Union $6,000 $0 $6,000
49 United Mine Workers of America $6,000 $0 $6,000
52 FedEx Corp $5,750 $750 $5,000
53 Joint Action Cmte for Political Affairs $5,724 $500 $5,224
54 Avma/Aavmc $5,500 $5,500 $0
55 Sierra Club $5,452 $5,452 $0
56 Service Employees International Union $5,250 $250 $5,000
57 Summit Partners $5,200 $5,200 $0
58 McKenna, Long & Aldridge $5,150 $5,150 $0
59 Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community $5,100 $5,100 $0
59 Soros Fund Management $5,100 $5,100 $0
61 21st Century Democrats $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 AFL-CIO $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 America's Leadership PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 American Bankers Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 American Federation of Govt Employees $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 American Hospital Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 American Nurses Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 American Postal Workers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Bakery, Confectionery & Tobacco Workers $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Bricklayers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Carpenters & Joiners Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 CHRIS PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Citizens for Global Solutions $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Clear Channel Communications $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Communications Workers of America $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Credit Union National Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 DAKPAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 First State PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Forward Together PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Green Mountain PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Holding Onto Oregon's Priorities $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Hope Fund $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Impact $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 International Assn of Fire Fighters $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 International Longshoremens Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Ironworkers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Jazz PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Kramer, Dillof et al $5,000 $5,000 $0
61 Leadership in the New Century $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 M-PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Midwest Values PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Montana Conservation Voters $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 MOPAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Moving America Forward $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Narragansett Bay PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 National Assn of Social Workers $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 National Beer Wholesalers Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 National Cmte for an Effective Congress $5,000 $666 $4,334
61 National Education Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 National Electrical Contractors Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 National Rural Letter Carriers Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 New Jersey First $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 New Leadership for America $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Operating Engineers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 PAC for a Change $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Painters & Allied Trades Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Power, Rogers & Smith $5,000 $5,000 $0
61 Prairie PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Professional Airways Systems Specialists $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Progressive Patriots Fund $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Rocky Mountain PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Seafarers International Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Searchlight Leadership Fund $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Sheet Metal Workers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Specialty Equipment Market Assn $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Sullivan & Cromwell $5,000 $5,000 $0
61 To Organize a Majority PAC $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Transport Workers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 UNITE HERE $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 Unite Our States $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 United Auto Workers $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 United Food & Commercial Workers Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 United Steelworkers $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 United Transportation Union $5,000 $0 $5,000
61 WPP Group $5,000 $5,000 $

Here is what the list is about.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00027605&cycle=2008&type=I&newMem=N&recs=100

 

[mtcatgirl]

Have you contacted your US Senator(s) yet about Sen Tester's S.1470 bill?

Snowmobiling as we know it in western or riding out of western MT could become a thing of the past. With the effort most make in posting a complaint about nothing getting done to fight this stuff, the same people could be writing a letter, picking up the phone or spending some time to work in snowmobilers best access interest with the rest of us. The post about the help needed in Bozeman at the end of the month is a perfect way for people to donate even an "hour" to promoting continued access. Get involved. You've probably heard the publicity on the radio, in a television ad or read it in the newspaper--S.1470 is being promoted as a win for everyone including snowmobilers. Maybe you don't buy it, but people that don't participate in recreation are forming opinions based on misleading ads that recreational access will continue.
Cut down version of content of information from our SAWS Alert info about Mt. Senator Tester's "Forest Jobs and Recreation Act" S.1470-a.k.a. the western Montana wilderness bill--
Comment Deadline: Submit comments ASAP
SAWS suggests that you review the following alert information, do some research on your own and submit your view to your state US senators within the next couple of weeks; and then follow the bill.
Here is a link to S1470: http://tester.senate.gov/Legislation/forestresources.cfm
There are approximately 25 maps available, ranging from 3 MB to 40 MB.
Here is a link to our previous information:
http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/..._Announces_Forest_Jobs_and_Recreation_Act.htm
In SAWS opinion wilderness does not allow for future "planning" of the resources; it is the end all decision of management. The jobs and recreation portions of the bill?? Details are sketchy and subject to questionable language. Not only does this bill contain 677,000 acres of new wilderness, it includes six so-called recreation areas but each of these areas are distinguished differently as Recreation, National Recreation Area, Recreation Management Area, or Special Management Area.
Question? How is snowmobile use treated in this bill?
Answer!! If an area is designated as wilderness, ALL motorized and mechanized use ends.
Although the Senator’s office staff has said the Senator’s intent was to maintain existing levels of recreation in these areas, the language of the bill does not constitute that understanding.
.. suggested comment points with regard to S. 1470

·A “need” for additional wilderness as defined in the Wilderness Act is not provided in this bill. Tell your Senators that it is your position that the current 109.5 million acres of wilderness in the United States is plenty and you want an explanation for how the need of this acreage is warranted.
·Numerous public, organization and individual comments to Senator Tester on this bill or components of this bill were NOT in favor of development of this bill. Many pro-access organizations were not even consulted with a request for their opinions when the bill was developed, and in fact, many were refused preliminary involvement.
·The Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest (BDNF) has been undergoing a forest plan revision with a record of decision recently announced. Much of the wilderness proposed in this bill falls in the BDNF (505,000+ acres), includes acreage recommended in the BDNF ROD and additional acreage that does not meet wilderness criteria. This bill does not allow existing USDA Forest Service management processes to occur.
·The Beaverhead Deerlodge National Forest review team did not find the partnership group comment to be a valid method to manage the BDNF but this bill incorporates significant portions of the comment to become law especially with regard to the wilderness allocations.
·Numerous areas designated to become wilderness do not meet the definition of wilderness described in the Wilderness Act. Look at the maps-
·Wilderness visits in the BDNF fall into the 1.5% range.
·This is a short sited bill with the only long term result being 677,000 acres of wilderness plus additional federal public land being treated as “de-facto” wilderness.
·The duration of the timber jobs mentioned in this bill are not long term. The projected time frame to complete timber harvest as outlined in this bill is 10 years with the Secretary of Agriculture to oversee for 15 years. Although timber harvest is generally supported by the recreation community, accomplishing that timber harvest will create far more devastation to the environment even with “restoration” than sports such as snowmobiling or other motorized access currently allowed have created or will ever create. Cost of restoration?? Cost projections are not provided.
·Existing laws do provide for timber harvest, including diseased trees, do effectively manage wildlife habitat based on best science practices including studies that have been totally neglected in the development of this bill and do provide for continuation of public access for various non-motorized, mechanized and motorized recreational activities including snowmobiles.
·Many forms of recreation currently allowed on USDA Forest Service land will cease to exist under provisions of this bill with no valid reason to terminate the activity.
·Wildlife populations may be compromised due to the lack of management that will result once designated wilderness.
·Language in the bill reads that mechanized and non-motorized users will have unlimited access in the National Recreation area(s)
·Motorized users will either not be allowed (in the proposed wilderness areas), or will be restricted to “existing defined routes” (in the proposed recreation management areas)
·Snowmobiling will be restricted to trail use only in areas that currently offer off-trail riding or snowmobile activity will be eliminated entirely from numerous areas. There is no data available showing that snowmobiles have caused negative impact on any areas proposed to be closed. Facts, data and existing studies do not show that snowmobiles harm the environment and for that reason snowmobiles should not be restricted as outlined in this proposed law.
·The language of the bill indicates only development of a recreation management plan for recreation activities will be subject to public notice and comment and therefore are not guaranteed with this bill.
·Areas open to recreation may be arbitrarily closed. No language indicating if approved, recreation activities will be allowed into the future.
·Sustained future job retention in the timber industry is not projected. Short term projects with unspecified taxpayer cost for “stewardship” activities does not promote lasting employment in the timber industry.
·No Hard release language that further wilderness designation in the proposed affected forests will not be allowed in the future.

Your well informed opinion for your comment letter is important! If you recreate in these areas, look at the wilderness area maps and reference the maps you presently use and note the differences. Your input as to how you have, do and plan to continue to recreate in all of these areas whether those designated for wilderness or those proposed in one of the “recreation” designations in the past and present is important for Senator Tester to hear before it’s too late.
Follow the progress of the bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-1470
contact the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources especially if one of your Senators is on this committee. The bill is currently in the hands of this committee for review. If any changes are to occur in the language of the bill pertaining to where and how access will be allowed in the Protection Areas, National Recreation Areas, Recreation Management Area, 2 Recreation Area(s) and Special Management Area, anything beyond an approved legal change in “wording” will occur under direction of committee and not necessarily guided by Senator Tester’s intent to allow recreation as it exists to continue.

Here is a link to send an e-mail message to the committee:
http://energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home

Or you can mail or FAX your concerns about S.1470
Energy and Natural Resources Committee Office
304 Dirksen Senate Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-4971
Fax: (202) 224-6163

http://energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=About.Members

Committee Members
Democrats Republicans
Chairman Jeff Bingaman (NM)
Byron L. Dorgan (ND)
Ron Wyden (OR)
Tim Johnson (SD)
Mary L. Landrieu (LA)
Maria Cantwell (WA)
Robert Menendez (NJ)
Blanche Lincoln (AR)
Bernard Sanders (I) (VT)
Evan Bayh (IN)
Debbie Stabenow (MI)
Mark Udall (CO)
Jeanne Shaheen (NH)
Lisa Murkowski (AK)
Richard Burr (NC)
John Barrasso (WY)
Sam Brownback (KS)
James E. Risch (ID)
John McCain (AZ)
Robert Bennett (UT)
Jim Bunning (KY)
Jeff Sessions (AL)
Bob Corker (TN)


Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this alert and for contacting your senator and request that they oppose S1470.

Janine Stewart, Montana SAWS Representative
Dave Hurwitz, SAWS Chairman

Copyright © 2009 Snowmobile Alliance of Western States. All Rights Reserved.
Permission is granted to distribute this information in whole or in part, as long as Snowmobile Alliance of Western States (SAWS) is acknowledged as the source. If you are not yet a member of SAWS and you would like receive these alerts, please sign up on our web site at: http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/

 

[Disco Dan Richter]

If you want to do anything positive about this, get rid of the Democrats altogether. They are the ones who cater to enviro-terrorist groups. I am not all for this proposed bill guys, please understand that, but to see a Democrat actually proposing a comprimise at all, is positive.
You all know as well as I, that they can shut it all down, at any time. An approach that does not include the rhetoric of...."you can have my 2 srtoke when you pry it from my cold dead hands" type, will be a help.
What will the next bill be? My guess, total or near total wilderness area. I honestly feel we need to work with the other groups, not against them like they like to do to us.
And always remember, their pockets are way deeper than ours, and there is no way we can catch up to that.
Work together or lose it, all together.

 

[SnowSnob]

Insightful words Dan....that's a change
Your right this is a UFC fighter vs. a midget type of fight and we just can't compete.
What we need is an inside man who can climb their way to Pres. then destroy it from the inside.
I don't really think we can work with the greenie groups but maybe the greedy sentors who propose the bill will work with us. As much as I hate Tester and what he's doing to MT at least he's including us. And really they can go and say trail use only but are they really going to enforce it?

 

[SnowSnob]

Families for Recreation Use and BRC is putting on Water Drags 8-9 in Billings to help raise money for keeping riding areas open.
http://www.thunderonthewater.com/
Just by attending you can help save some riding areas.

If everyone on here was able to contribute a minimum of $50 a year to ONE of the supporting organizations I guarantee you that this bill would have more Recreation Area OR less Wilderness.

If we can come up with enough money and start putting ads on tv, radio and bill boards saying how these wilderness groups don't do anything but take away from public land I bet we could turn the tides a bit or at least get rid of some of their contributers. IT ALL TAKES MONEY....you all live in N. America and should know this....money talks bs walks.

 

[Wade]

My sources say Tester's office has been getting flooded with phone calls, demanding NO snowmobile areas be lost, on or off trail. Looks like he's starting to seriously take notice. Everyone in Montana needs to call, and pile on. This ship still has a chance to compromise a better deal for us.

CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL.......

Call Senator Tester's offices toll-free from Montana at (866) 554-4403.

 

[Wade]

Here's the latest SAWS alert; for those that are not signed up.

http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/...Introduces_Forest_Jobs_and_Recreation_Act.htm

Thanks Janine Stewart (Montana SAWS Representative) and Dave Hurwitz (SAWS Chairman), for putting this together so fast.

 

[MTLADY]

According to the article below, it sounds like the only snowmobile related input Tester received in return for their endorsement of this bill are the Lincoln County Snow Kats and the Troy Snowmobile Club - both only providing input on the Kootenai National Forest portion of the bill.

• On the Kootenai National Forest, the Three Rivers District (Yaak). Linehan Outfitters; Kurt Rayson, Rayson Logging; Lincoln County Snow Kats; Kootenai Ridge Riders ATV Club; Yaak Valley Forest Council, Troy Snowmobile Club.

It's discouraging news for sure, and worse when people who should and could be taking action don't. If you don't already, make sure you write letters, call or whatever. Every voice counts.

Jerry Wandler, President of the Troy Snowmobile Club deserves a handshake from you if you ever run into him. The man has spent countless hours attending meetings all over the state, visiting with political figures, etc. fighting for your right to ride. Thanks to him there's a little more orange on that map.

Thanks Jerry!!!

 

[donbrown]

What the snowmobile "support" groups should do is prepare short 500 word articles and "drip" them to the communities that will loose sledding.

 

[thomps33]

What we need is an organization that can pool resources from all organizations (motorized and non motorized groups) that will be affected by the closures. The funds that small organizations gather to fight for a specific cause is futile. It's time to band together and bring a bigger gun to the fight.

 

[RX1MountainMan]

Tester is a douche! A friend of mine has a good idea...vote against all incumbents!!!!! Burns might have been an idiot but I think Tester is worse!

 

[Scott]

My sources say Tester's office has been getting flooded with phone calls, demanding NO snowmobile areas be lost, on or off trail. Looks like he's starting to seriously take notice. Everyone in Montana needs to call, and pile on. This ship still has a chance to compromise a better deal for us.

CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL.......

Call Senator Tester's offices toll-free from Montana at (866) 554-4403.

JUST spoke to Vicky(?). She was very nice and is composing an email to "John" with all of the comments that she is getting.

She did say, however, that she didn't think the bill removes any motorized access that already exists.
Lets get that map back up here so we can see it.

 

[eddy]

Mt Jefferson Wilderness

http://tester.senate.gov/forest/forestmaps/b-d/MtJefferson.pdf

You will see the proposed wilderness area is everything you want to ride south of the peak in Idaho.

IHMO this woman is misleading in her statement (wow, a first time for that!).

All the areas have PDF maps and links above on page 3. Look at areas you have ridden. We have been to this area and with that closure we would be pissed if we lived there! Look at areas you know and comment!

Politics is a messy business and there is not alot of good faith statements from the likes of Tester and their staff people (who do not know and probably do not care). Voting is one thing but these folks can do serious damage while they are in office. We must fight each battle and start winning more than we lose!

 

[eddy]

Question from Don Brown

Tell me who on here knows what each group does and if any benefit from snowmobiling?

Let me take a guess, NOTHING

Who on this list knows what the legal definition of the term "wilderness" on Federal land?

Again, Less than 0