Team secondary helps but not fix

[Cold_puss]

Just tried the new team secondary,seemed like all was fine then I popped over a drift and BANG! Are you kidding me????? Sure as sh*t belt again. I was riding it hard to confirm that all was good. Even broke this one in properly. To me it seems like something is changing randomly and causing this. Maybe a loose mount or motor torquing, not sure. However the heat is way less with the team secondary, I could actually touch it after a hard pull. So that is clearly helping. I guess we go deep now and make sure all is tight and not broken.

 

[nosajlleb]

Multiple belt graters above and below, thought team got rid of belt ballooning. Magic bearings and bending jackshafts. TCL is quickly becoming an enigma nobody wants.

 

[Cold_puss]

I agree, going back to a yamaha looks like a possibility if things keep going this way.

 

[0neoldfart]

PM me

I agree, going back to a yamaha looks like a possibility if things keep going this way.

PM me with your setup details, what belt, C to C distance, etc. I've been running a Tied on my M1100T with EVO BC kit since new, over 500 miles on original belt. Very pleased with my setup, but honestly did a few minor "tweaks" - perhaps I can help you out.

 

[Evolution Powersports]

Just tried the new team secondary,seemed like all was fine then I popped over a drift and BANG! Are you kidding me????? Sure as sh*t belt again. I was riding it hard to confirm that all was good. Even broke this one in properly. To me it seems like something is changing randomly and causing this. Maybe a loose mount or motor torquing, not sure. However the heat is way less with the team secondary, I could actually touch it after a hard pull. So that is clearly helping. I guess we go deep now and make sure all is tight and not broken.

Jay, there is no way the helix that you have in your sled is correct for the prairie - not enough belt grip. I know Gene is out of town, but you can call me and I will hook a brother up...

 

[bgreen776]

PM me with your setup details, what belt, C to C distance, etc. I've been running a Tied on my M1100T with EVO BC kit since new, over 500 miles on original belt. Very pleased with my setup, but honestly did a few minor "tweaks" - perhaps I can help you out.

Would you mind just sharing with the rest of us?

 

[Cold_puss]

Hey guys, I understand it may not be set up for the prairies. Its not like im taking this thing and stretching its legs to the point of breaking. This was just random and maybe a one time thing, theres always a bad belt in the bunch. I just popped up over a drift throttled up and away she went. wasnt like it was out of traction or on the rev limiter. Snow was set up for good traction thats why I was out, to try and put a good load on the belt. I will try and call you today Jim.

 

[Cold_puss]

Oh, and as far as the ecu being mounted where it is......Bad Idea with these belt issues, As I now have a cracked ecu case! I can epoxy it up now so water will not get in, but really come on!!

 

[ghostrider73]

Belts

I feel like there is something loose in my sled causing alott of my belt issues after every ride my alignment is off and needs to be shimmed. The best luck I have had so far is with the dayco xtx 5020 belts I can usually get 3 days of hard riding in on one of those where as a at belt I'm one per day sometimes 2

 

[BADACR]

Oh, and as far as the ecu being mounted where it is......Bad Idea with these belt issues, As I now have a cracked ecu case! I can epoxy it up now so water will not get in, but really come on!!

Same here Jay. Mine is a nice mess of epoxy and zip ties. I took mine out on the weekend, and drove it hard in the prairies, over revving frequently, and I'm still on the same belt as last year. Second belt in 1300 MILES. ;I have 400km on my EVO BC275, stock secondary with CPC helix, dalton red/black spring in primary and CPC 90-100 adjustables loaded to the nuts.

 

[0neoldfart]

PM me

Would you mind just sharing with the rest of us?

Not that simple. If you have a belt blower, make some measurements (C to C, offset, what belt, details of your setup including clutching). I may be able to steer you in the right direction. Jim at EVO Powersports & Eric at Racin' Station have put a bunch of time and effort (not to mention $$$) to make these sleds work well, and I'm not interested in trying to take bread off of thier tables. Without people like this in the industry, we'd all be riding crap like we had in the early 70's (ride for an hour, wrench for four hours). Plain and simple: Measure, record, correct, vent, and then call EVO, Racin Station, or WKM in Canada & get your clutching dialed

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Not that simple. If you have a belt blower, make some measurements (C to C, offset, what belt, details of your setup including clutching). I may be able to steer you in the right direction. Jim at EVO Powersports & Eric at Racin' Station have put a bunch of time and effort (not to mention $$$) to make these sleds work well, and I'm not interested in trying to take bread off of thier tables. Without people like this in the industry, we'd all be riding crap like we had in the early 70's (ride for an hour, wrench for four hours). Plain and simple: Measure, record, correct, vent, and then call EVO, Racin Station, or WKM in Canada & get your clutching dialed

I am sorry but this kind of pisses me off. Here we are trying to improve on a system, we pay our membership, and we are now holding back ideas and things people have tried so we don't hurt anyone's feelings or cut into their pocket book.

Understood! But the fact is I don't think anyone has this stupid clutching thing figured out. And I can tell you straight up that even the guys that "think" they have is solved and have spent all these hours trying to make it work are still only about 75% their.

If we as a Arctic Nation want to get these 1100's to top of the mountain list we need to quit being a bunch of tight lipped, selfish riders and share our ya's and na's.

never hurts to throw some names around because I know the names you have listed have done a tremendous amount of work to get to this point. If they really want to sell their stuff they will do it on customer service and having people tell them straight up here is what I run, and here is how it works, and this is the guy to talk to.

Rather than, "you send me the money, ill send you the goods"

And lastly, I know for a fact we have about 1000 clutching experts working on this daily, and we will get it solved as a group but not without talking about our gains and losses.


Thunder

 

[nosajlleb]

Here ya go....

I have the 2012 m1100T 153 with the EVO 215 93oct flash.

Clutching mds (89.6g) in the primary with the poo black for elevation and a speedwerx titanium spring for Michigan. Secondary stock 42/40 helix with a dalton g/s spring, still binds.

This season I've had both clutches balanced and the primary shimmed I have ran longer belts but am now back to stock length.

I just recently hacked up my side panel and belt cover for better venting and vented the batwing.

I also have the I/C fan and header and turbo blankets installed along with the EVO BRV.

Aftermarket Turbo Dynamics muffler no d/p yet. I have clutchweights jackshaft snubber and a reverse that is still working after updates.

I am currently riveting thin abs to the areas where the ballooning belt hits when the wave arises on decel.

Have had no belts blown since new, but I ride out west for one week a year. The Upper Peninsula is beating you guys pretty bad snow wise so its seen many inland lakes with over 4' of pow for some testing this season. It gets hot in there especially the belt but whether I use the gates carbon or stock 082 they are holding together, knock on wood.

Next seasons list is already well over a $1000 for d/p, vented hood, cold air intake, and some reasonable storage.

I ended up riveting the belt bag the 13s got to the inside of the exhaust side panel above the muffler and put heat tape on it.

I hope my wife never finds this site or I will need to go away for a while!

FWIW.

 

[0neoldfart]

Wow!

I am sorry but this kind of pisses me off. Here we are trying to improve on a system, we pay our membership, and we are now holding back ideas and things people have tried so we don't hurt anyone's feelings or cut into their pocket book.

Understood! But the fact is I don't think anyone has this stupid clutching thing figured out. And I can tell you straight up that even the guys that "think" they have is solved and have spent all these hours trying to make it work are still only about 75% their.

If we as a Arctic Nation want to get these 1100's to top of the mountain list we need to quit being a bunch of tight lipped, selfish riders and share our ya's and na's.

never hurts to throw some names around because I know the names you have listed have done a tremendous amount of work to get to this point. If they really want to sell their stuff they will do it on customer service and having people tell them straight up here is what I run, and here is how it works, and this is the guy to talk to.

Rather than, "you send me the money, ill send you the goods"

And lastly, I know for a fact we have about 1000 clutching experts working on this daily, and we will get it solved as a group but not without talking about our gains and losses.


Thunder

Thunder, here's the real deal. Due to manufacturing "tolerances" there is NO blanket solution for this issue. Simply bolting on parts will NOT fix the issue. In my particular case, I stripped the sled down before I rode it and measured EVERYTHING, checked my belt alignment, parallelism, offset, and deflection. My sled's C to C measured 11 9/16", spec is 11.5". I had a good look at the new secondary design, and decided to do the following: I installed a Team Tied, using the provided alignment bar, with float sitting at .032". I bought vented panels from cat, installed polyurethane motor mounts, fabricated my own brake caliper / rotor splash shield, and installed EVO's BC250 kit, cold air intake, intercooler fan, charge tubes, boost recirculation valve, header & turbo blankets. I also added a 2.5" DP & MBRP muffler, all of which were covered in header wrap and sealed with silicone. Changed out the piece of sh*t belt guard, too. I rode the sled for 500 miles (all mountain in good snow, no 70 mph trail rides for me). All of my measurements are correct except my C to C, which explained why I had slight rubbing on the inside cogs of my belt. Since then I have changed engine oil, and replaced my belt with a Cat 084. It is the same compound, albeit slightly longer. It is my reasoning the belt is too short and bottoms in the pulley. I will be adding OSP's engine snubber and jackshaft support prior to my next ride, and hopefully EVO's 50 tooth bottom sprocket and heavy duty chain, too. This will allow me to save my $$$ to install a C3 belt drive in the off season. I'm of the personal opinion that the helix finish angle on the Team Tied is higher then it should be, and when one becomes available, I will likely be the guinea pig and test it. My primary setup is MDS weights with 90.26g, and a Polaris gold spring. I don't recall the helix or spring that is installed in the Tied, and I'm not home to disassemble it so I can inform you.
Fact of the matter is, I've not blown a belt yet. Maybe it will be my turn the next ride out, but I've seen no appreciable wear on the belt I just took off...
And as far as me being "selfish", you don't know me very well - I'm the first guy to stop and help someone on the hill or answer a question, but disclosing the contents of someone's clutch kit, porting specs, etc. is not cool, especially when the vendors spend countless hours to improve upon a product. I actually think they should be paid for their efforts. Do you work for free? I certainly don't...

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Thunder, here's the real deal. Due to manufacturing "tolerances" there is NO blanket solution for this issue. Simply bolting on parts will NOT fix the issue. In my particular case, I stripped the sled down before I rode it and measured EVERYTHING, checked my belt alignment, parallelism, offset, and deflection. My sled's C to C measured 11 9/16", spec is 11.5". I had a good look at the new secondary design, and decided to do the following: I installed a Team Tied, using the provided alignment bar, with float sitting at .032". I bought vented panels from cat, installed polyurethane motor mounts, fabricated my own brake caliper / rotor splash shield, and installed EVO's BC250 kit, cold air intake, intercooler fan, charge tubes, boost recirculation valve, header & turbo blankets. I also added a 2.5" DP & MBRP muffler, all of which were covered in header wrap and sealed with silicone. Changed out the piece of sh*t belt guard, too. I rode the sled for 500 miles (all mountain in good snow, no 70 mph trail rides for me). All of my measurements are correct except my C to C, which explained why I had slight rubbing on the inside cogs of my belt. Since then I have changed engine oil, and replaced my belt with a Cat 084. It is the same compound, albeit slightly longer. It is my reasoning the belt is too short and bottoms in the pulley. I will be adding OSP's engine snubber and jackshaft support prior to my next ride, and hopefully EVO's 50 tooth bottom sprocket and heavy duty chain, too. This will allow me to save my $$$ to install a C3 belt drive in the off season. I'm of the personal opinion that the helix finish angle on the Team Tied is higher then it should be, and when one becomes available, I will likely be the guinea pig and test it. My primary setup is MDS weights with 90.26g, and a Polaris gold spring. I don't recall the helix or spring that is installed in the Tied, and I'm not home to disassemble it so I can inform you.
Fact of the matter is, I've not blown a belt yet. Maybe it will be my turn the next ride out, but I've seen no appreciable wear on the belt I just took off...
And as far as me being "selfish", you don't know me very well - I'm the first guy to stop and help someone on the hill or answer a question, but disclosing the contents of someone's clutch kit, porting specs, etc. is not cool, especially when the vendors spend countless hours to improve upon a product. I actually think they should be paid for their efforts. Do you work for free? I certainly don't...

Perfect and I agree 100%. And again I also agree 100% they should be paid for their efforts. But if people know they have a proven product they will go after it.

So again, great reply and much appreciated. Good info and others will learn from it. Don't be afraid to drop names of where you get your parts and such, that is the business they will gain. 10x as much as top secret stuff.

Thanks again.

Thunder

 

[Bendy]

One"smart"oldfart

Thunder, here's the real deal. Due to manufacturing "tolerances" there is NO blanket solution for this issue. Simply bolting on parts will NOT fix the issue. In my particular case, I stripped the sled down before I rode it and measured EVERYTHING, checked my belt alignment, parallelism, offset, and deflection. My sled's C to C measured 11 9/16", spec is 11.5". I had a good look at the new secondary design, and decided to do the following: I installed a Team Tied, using the provided alignment bar, with float sitting at .032". I bought vented panels from cat, installed polyurethane motor mounts, fabricated my own brake caliper / rotor splash shield, and installed EVO's BC250 kit, cold air intake, intercooler fan, charge tubes, boost recirculation valve, header & turbo blankets. I also added a 2.5" DP & MBRP muffler, all of which were covered in header wrap and sealed with silicone. Changed out the piece of sh*t belt guard, too. I rode the sled for 500 miles (all mountain in good snow, no 70 mph trail rides for me). All of my measurements are correct except my C to C, which explained why I had slight rubbing on the inside cogs of my belt. Since then I have changed engine oil, and replaced my belt with a Cat 084. It is the same compound, albeit slightly longer. It is my reasoning the belt is too short and bottoms in the pulley. I will be adding OSP's engine snubber and jackshaft support prior to my next ride, and hopefully EVO's 50 tooth bottom sprocket and heavy duty chain, too. This will allow me to save my $$$ to install a C3 belt drive in the off season. I'm of the personal opinion that the helix finish angle on the Team Tied is higher then it should be, and when one becomes available, I will likely be the guinea pig and test it. My primary setup is MDS weights with 90.26g, and a Polaris gold spring. I don't recall the helix or spring that is installed in the Tied, and I'm not home to disassemble it so I can inform you.
Fact of the matter is, I've not blown a belt yet. Maybe it will be my turn the next ride out, but I've seen no appreciable wear on the belt I just took off...
And as far as me being "selfish", you don't know me very well - I'm the first guy to stop and help someone on the hill or answer a question, but disclosing the contents of someone's clutch kit, porting specs, etc. is not cool, especially when the vendors spend countless hours to improve upon a product. I actually think they should be paid for their efforts. Do you work for free? I certainly don't...

Knowledgable and sharp tongued! Great reply. I remember back in the early 2000's when I was trying to get info on 2 stroke turbos. No one would help. There are still a few guys that like to withhold info, but like you said, for good reason.

 

[0neoldfart]

You have to do your homework...

The way I see it, everyone is looking for the "quick" and "cheap" fix. There is no such fix out there, but the aftermarket is certainly trying. I believe Racin Station said it in one of his posts "Belt 101". You HAVE TO essentially blueprint your chassis on the M1100 before working on a repair, because not ALL of the proclimbs are suffering from the same causes. Also noteworthy is that although it has had some production tolerance issues, there is no question that it is the most powerful PRODUCTION sled on the snow this year. I'll bet anyone that the sleds that the pro hilclimbers and sponsored riders are not just picked randomly out of the production line - they are hand built with no details left to chance.
Granted, I am a journeyman mechanic with a red seal, with many years experience working on powersports equipment, so yes, I have an advantage over the poor soul who is at the mercy of his dealer for almost everything. I have noticed as a whole the sleds that are having "issues" are not stock, yet it is expected that Cat should repair the sled that HAS BEEN MODIFIED BY THE OWNER. This is nothing short of fraud, as the chassis was designed for a STOCK motor.
Finally, I did not want to divulge my setup for the following reasons:
1) - It is not a "one size fits all" solution. Your sled is different then mine, so I would not want to mislead a person into buying parts that may not help thier issue (not getting to the root cause)
2) - Many vendors have spent a pile of time (and time is money) trying to come up with a solution. They are not on A/C's payroll, most of them are in this industry as a labour of love. Trust me, no one is getting filthy rich selling sled parts by the time the manufacturer and distributor get paid...
3) - I've spent the time (& money) to get this sled to where I am very happy with it, and if I can spend the weekend hanging a beating on my buddy with a similar machine... frankly I deserve to be able to do that.
4) - If you look at my earlier posts, I believe one was titled "PM me". Perhaps I wanted to discuss your setup BEFORE making any recommendations for parts. Again, everyone wants the quick, cheap, & easy fix, so apparently I offended some people by not discussing my personal sled setup with the world. Do you think the military tells every foreign country where all our forces / armaments / missles are? The crack about paying my membership is crap - I pay membership fees too, I don't charge for advice, and I'm not selling anything. Pretty sure you don't tell your sledding buddies (or your wife) everything you've done to your sled...

I'm done with this conversation. Do your homework or don't - throw parts at it or just sit and complain about it - I really don't care anymore.

 

[Cold_puss]

looking deeper!

Found the inner bearing seal on the driven side of the jackshaft had come off, only reason I looked is because I was measuring my c to c, which happens to be 11.75! I have triple checked even with three diff measuring devices. So I would have to believe that yes a longer belt should resolve my issue, as well as all that I have changed to get to this point. Unfortunately now Im changing those bearings, but better now than out in the hills. See what they have in stock in the morning!

 

[0neoldfart]

Measure the Cat 086

Found the inner bearing seal on the driven side of the jackshaft had come off, only reason I looked is because I was measuring my c to c, which happens to be 11.75! I have triple checked even with three diff measuring devices. So I would have to believe that yes a longer belt should resolve my issue, as well as all that I have changed to get to this point. Unfortunately now Im changing those bearings, but better now than out in the hills. See what they have in stock in the morning!

I know the 086 is slightly longer then the 084, but not sure of the belt compound. (check it out with WKM, that may be the ticket for your C to C). May want to check rear motor mounts too, cause 11.75" is the largest c to c I've heard of...

 

[Cold_puss]

Hey guys, I have to say huge thanks to Jim from EVO and Racing Station. Their hard work and effort has gotten this to where it is. The team secondary is a huge part of the fix on this. Like its been said, it's perfect storm of problems that not one simple solution will help everyone. But following the guidelines that have been set will get you ultimately back in the saddle kickin some Nytro a**! This thing absolutely hauls butt! , can't wait to get this back on track.