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[Cat Bandit]

So a buddy and i are jumping in feet first with mountain horse kits. We live in central Washington, and sometimes the law enforcement is a little over bearing. I'm curious if any of you get hassled in Washington riding your snow bikes? we will both have current orv tabs, but they aren't snowmobile tabs... Some insight would be great, thanks!

 

[dirtrebel]

same ? for mt

Not trying to hijack the thread but I have the same ? for MT

 

[KAWGRN]

I just going to get the snow one ! although my bike has a liscense Plate! mabe I dont need any thing??

 

[funjunkie]

You will need snowmobile tags for your bike. Because the money from those tags goes to take care of the trails in the winter.

 

[bfly]

FWIW, in Colorado they classify anything with a track designed to travel on the snow a snowmobile. By that definition you would need a snowmobile sticker/tag.

 

[Uncle si]

I registered my timbersled kit as a homebuilt snowmobile using the timbersled serial number in washington state at the snoqualmie falls credit union. They had me fill out an affidavit that I assembled it.

This keeps your bike vin unemcumbered so you can register it for summer use.

So far only one LEO contact. Your results may vary.

 

[Dobber1]

We run bike OHV stickers on the bikes & of course sled OHV stickers on the sleds. Figure I'm paying for snow stickers once, which goes into the state grooming fund, and usually don't ride them both at the same time anyway. Most patrollers around this area are usually surprised enough when they see a bike on snow, they don't even look for stickers.

 

[Cat Bandit]

I just have a feeling that there will be tickets if we encounter law enforcement. It seems Washington is very strict with that stuff. If we got mco's with the kits to get them registered, it wouldn't be a problem. But i have no idea what a manufacturer would need to do to get them. I know the kit i just received has a serial number, but didn't come with paperwork. So i don't know really what to do.

 

[off road rider]

I just have a feeling that there will be tickets if we encounter law enforcement. It seems Washington is very strict with that stuff. If we got mco's with the kits to get them registered, it wouldn't be a problem. But i have no idea what a manufacturer would need to do to get them. I know the kit i just received has a serial number, but didn't come with paperwork. So i don't know really what to do.

I dont know squat about other states. But,
In Wa they will dual register your bike and give you a snowmobile tag.Yu wont need any #s or paper work from TS
In WA a snowmobile is described as any vehicle with a track for propulsion and a ski for steering.

 

[Cat Bandit]

I dont know squat about other states. But,
In Wa they will dual register your bike and give you a snowmobile tag.Yu wont need any #s or paper work from TS
In WA a snowmobile is described as any vehicle with a track for propulsion and a ski for steering.

Oh really? How do you achieve this? Just go in and ask for a dual registration? That would make it way simpler! Thanks for that info

 

[Cat Bandit]

tabs update

Ok, so i talked to the dol for Washington state in Olympia.the guy said for a motorcycle with orv tags, you can go down and apply for a dual registration with snowmobile as an option. You'll be required to filll outa certificate of fact that you converted it to a snowmobile ie with a ski in the front, and track in the rear. And you'll be charged for orv tags, and snowmobile tags,and you'll be legal.if you have questions, look on the dol.wa.gov website contact and they have the phone number to call.

 

[Cat Bandit]

Another update, guzzy insurance in Cle Elum is helping get the details locked down. It's been kindof a struggle, with calls to the state, and back to the dol sub agent, but it is doable. First the lady said she'd never heard of it, and called her person at the state, and she said no as well. But i called the licensing customer service at Olympia, and she straightened it out. So guzzy will have the process ironed out, and know what to do. Hope this helps.

 

[Shanahan7B]

Tags

Frozen MOTO is currently working with legislators here in Idaho to address these very issues as the regulations are state regulations and only apply to state ground technically as the "law" is a state law not a federal law and the snowmobile programs are ran by state park and rec departments not federally which is the reason for having to buy a sticker in all states you ride with no reciprocity.

The state "law" is written to be enforced specifically by sheriffs offices and Idaho Fish and Game here who are not equipped to check as the majority do not have snowmobiles readily available even though that is where the registration dollars are going. This is a further convoluted matter due to the USFS not having a requirement for registration at all on federal ground. After discussing this with the USFS they are trying to figure out if they should be regulating due to it being a state funding vehicle and no proceeds going to the USFS and or the LEO programs and them not being written into the enforcement of the "state law". You would also end up in federal court if a USFS LEO issued the ticket which does not have the jurisdiction in the matter, per the USFS and USFS LEO here in Idaho as again it is a state law not a federal one.

By working through this we hope to produce responsible dialogue about these and other issues such as financing these machines for those who can not afford the instant $5000.00 plus purchase, and currently they can not or will not be able to be financed through a lending institution under collateralization because they are not titled as "Snow Bikes". Which ultimately hurts the snow bike industry and hampers positive economic development by the snow bike companies and inevitably reduces the numbers that are sold each year.

We have additional meeting scheduled and will let you know how things work out here in Idaho the home of Snow Biking! If you have any additional questions please feel free to comment or email as we would like to include all applicable angles and inquiries in the dialogue.
Dan

 

[Cat Bandit]

Interesting, so when a forest service law gives you a ticket for tabs he has no ground to stand on, right on. I thought in Idaho you just got a groomer sticker and that was that?

 

[Shanahan7B]

Again Idaho "law"

When you look at the statues it says nothing about USFS enforcement only state agencies enforcing, and now that this has been brought up they are thinking about this more critically. Due to the written statue and the written enforcement vehicle. This again goes back to why you purchase from state to state and not nationally like say a federal hwy program and your car registration.

An example would be the federal hwy system and the reason you only have to register in your state not in every state you travel with your car. So the same rules apply in reverse the system is ran by the State parks and rec in any state and not the feds so again no reciprocity state to state and enforceable by the agency/ies written into the verbiage of the legislation/statue.

This is a very similar thing as the UTVs are facing now with the "trail width" being narrow enough for some side by sides. However here in Idaho they are again tackling this issue by saying ok if you dont "stradle" the motor you are not a trail ATV but a UTV and are not able to utilize the trail systems, from the Clearwater National Forest, Orofino Idaho and our continuing dialogue

Another valid poinit is the fact that you are already registering your "titled" bike and paying a yearly fee to the state for the same titled vehicle which is requiring a double registration when your ORV fees have already gone to the state. You can not title your snow bike as a snowmobile so why are we forced to pay twice for the same places same vehicle because manufactures were able to capture a year long experience vs just a few months of the tag, it is a yearly tag not a bi yearly tag.

again this is on going dialogue and it has a lot to do with us all educating your legislators to these issues and being represented by said legisaltors as the snow bike industry.
Dan

 

[Cat Bandit]

I see where you're coming from. It would be sweet to have reciprocity with tabs from state to state with sleds, and snow bikes alike. I'm not sure how you would get around having the dual registration tho unless they started from scratch with how they label bikes, and sleds legally. The way i understand it, when you put the kit on your motorcycle, legally the state(wa) considers it a snowmobile because it has a track, and a ski. And bring that it is titled as a motorcycle, and Washington doesn't title snowmobiles, they keep the title aa motorcycle, and register it for orv when it has wheels on, and snowmobile when it has the track and ski so you can do both. otherwise, you will have one, or the other, not both.

 

[Shanahan7B]

similar

It is similar in the Idaho legislation but again is all in the verbiage and location of your riding. I am hoping we can at least work this out where those of us who ride snow bikes can purchase say a dual use tag that allows use in both seasons. It is also tied back to when they groom so no grooming no sticker needed and if you aren't riding groomed trail you are not required to get a sticker here in Idaho as well. This goes back to the legislation and the verbiage with in said legislation. But again federal is federal and state is state the reason for two distinct and different judicial systems and jurisdiction.

Look at marijuana laws and the fact the state can legalize it but the feds can still cite on federal laws regardless of the state law same thing when it comes to federal ground but reverse. A state can regulate their property but not that of the federal govt. hence why when one state legalized marijuana ie MT, OR, CA, WA it wasn't legal in all states ie ID in the middle of those said states it is good only for the states location.

There used to be reciprocity in Idaho and MT and still is in one location the Lolo area of ID and MT on groomed trails only, until there was a pissing match and both states said we will show you to the other state and the only one that was affected or paid the price was rider/user and both states got richer for nothing further as far as service. Because the state gets the money not the feds.

 

[Shanahan7B]

USFS Fedetal statute

So after a very productive meeting here yesterday with the USES Law Enforcement here is the US Code & the Code of Federal Regulation used by said Law Enforcement.
Title 16 USC 551 36 CFR 261.54D this statute was brought to us by the USES law enforcement officers that regulate/check registration. what it boils down to is that federally you are only required to have your vehicle registered. That is if you have a valid ORV sticker on your bike you ARE registered and they will nother cite you as again they are federal and cite under the federal code which had not requirement for a snowmobile registration specifically. Registrations are required and that is why they check snowmobiles for snowmobile stickers as it is the only registration for a snowmobile. Furthermore if you have plate system for off-road like Idaho's white license plate and you have that and are valid you are already registered and legal.
This obviously applies to federal ground. If you are riding state ground then you would have to be registered with the state if a state or county agency checked you. Otherwise it again would be in Federal Court and jurisdiction.
Sources- USFS LEO, Shawn Bryant & Attorney at Law, Mary Shanahan (my wife)
Dan

 

[Cat Bandit]

got my tabs, dual registered, orv and snowmobile...

 

[dieselwerx.com]

Got my tabs said well.......