T Apex Clutching revisited

[hobbes]

I know this has been beat to death, but with a few more seasons on them and more knowledge out there, I'd like to hear some suggestions for setups. I'm running a BD 28rs Apex and going to be turning up the boost to 18-20 lbs this year. I'm 230 lbs, running a Shockwave secondary, and ride primarily between 8 and 10,000 feet. Track is a 15X162 Powerclaw.

One of the biggest complaints from last season is how aggressive the profile is on the weights I bought the sled with (I believe they are an aggressive profile Cat weight with weight added to the back of the weight). They held the rpms great at 16 lbs of boost, but there was no inbetween with it, it was impossible to ride the sled around at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle... once the boost started to build... GONE. It seems like it had 2 speeds, stopped and 100MPH with it's hair on fire. Am I barking up the right tree with the weight profile here or is there something I'm missing to make this thing a little more rideable?

I'm planning on running the Supertip weights so that I can easily adjust them on the hill. Any suggestions for weight and positions (heel/middle) would be greatly appreciated. Any other weights out there working better? Primary/Secondary springs?

 

[hobbes]

ttt

Darko, Thistledoo, WesG, JSCC, I know you guys know SOMETHING! LOL, help a brotha out.

 

[DARKO]

I only ran mine to 7000 feet and 18lbs of boost so I would be way out to lunch.

I would look at the Dalton adjustables, they worked well, the Apex liked the weight profile and they adjust quickly on the hill. Secondary spring, EPI purple for Arctic Cat is what I ran and would run the same again. I tried supertips, hated them.

 

[Polarisrocks]

Darko,
Why did you hate them??? I have super tips and wondered the same thing. They are really aggressive. Are they too aggressive? I have a buddy who runs a bushing kit and runs polaris weighs and he loves it. But after studing the profiles they are exactly the same. So How do the daltons differ? Flatter profile?

Jim

 

[Turk]

Run the 60 gram base supertips. Start em hevier in the base & gradually lighten em up towards the tip. Run a helix about a 50/44 with the stock secondary spring at about 60 wrap. This is for higher elevations.

 

[hobbes]

I only ran mine to 7000 feet and 18lbs of boost so I would be way out to lunch.

I would look at the Dalton adjustables, they worked well, the Apex liked the weight profile and they adjust quickly on the hill. Secondary spring, EPI purple for Arctic Cat is what I ran and would run the same again. I tried supertips, hated them.

So if I ran your exact setup and turned it up to 20 lbs, should be good?

Thanks for the replies guys, anyone know the answer to the profile question? Are the Daltons less aggressive?

 

[WesG]

Clutching

I run supertips, bwb primary with 3 shims, 14.5 rollers, purple secondary w/51 deg regrind helix. Supertips have tungstens in the heel, 8 washers mid and tune the tip for boost. Best setup I have. The three shims make a decent difference out of the hole. Gets the engagement rpm up a smidge. All the weight in the heel makes it abit sluggish until it gets going. On the flip side, it has great belt grab at low speeds and good backshift.

Wes

edit- I run much lower elevation. 3-6500ft. 20/40 gears. Have ran this setup in quartz and gorman and it worked fine. Not sure of the elevation there, but it is abit higher.

 

[happyhour]

primary is bwb spring 14.5 rollers 60y base supertips 2 tungsun in tip, 6 washers mid , 4 washers heel ,secondary is cat green spring ,spring hole location is 0/3 shockwave helix 1.5 to 2 turns out gearing is 20/40 this is for 8000/10000 feet

 

[EZmoney]

primary is bwb spring 14.5 rollers 60y base supertips 2 tungsun in tip, 6 washers mid , 4 washers heel ,secondary is cat green spring ,spring hole location is 0/3 shockwave helix 1.5 to 2 turns out gearing is 20/40 this is for 8000/10000 feet

IMo This is the best set up so far. Alot of guys run the weight the "pucks" in the heel. That takes away from the top end power and you get more on the bottom. Bull.sht you can run your pucks in the toe and have better power in the bottom and more top then what some of these guys said here. My set up is similar to Happy guy i think that would be your best bet, but do what ya want.For Your ridding i would run your pucks in the toe 4 washers mid two heel and the shock wave like happy here says 2 turns out.

 

[WesG]

shockwave helix?

What degree's are the shockwaves? I know I did not have great luck getting a good backshift with the weight in the toe. Ramps up very quick and is alot of fun, but did not backshift like it should. Might be the helix diff. though. Little less helix might cure that. Also I got a noticeable amount of belt slip with only 2 washers in the heel. 4-6 and it would go away. Tough to compare when I'm not using the shockwave Lets keep this going.



Wes

 

[catman 1200]

primary bwb 60 gram arms super tips 4 in the heel 4 in the center pucks in the tip artic cat green in secondary 0/3 on the helix 9000 to 12000 1 to2 turns out

 

[rotax]

primary bwb 60 gram arms super tips 4 in the heel 4 in the center pucks in the tip artic cat green in secondary 0/3 on the helix 9000 to 12000 1 to2 turns out

i'm looking for some different suggestions and ideas for super tips and shockwave helix setup too.

question, by "pucks" do you mean the 7g tungsten insert?
are you running (2) of these inserts at the tip, for a total of 14g at the tip?

 

[catman 1200]

i'm looking for some different suggestions and ideas for super tips and shockwave helix setup too.

question, by "pucks" do you mean the 7g tungsten insert?
are you running (2) of these inserts at the tip, for a total of 14g at the tip?

yep running the tungsten pucks in the tip 14gs in the tip

 

[mattymac]

what are you guys doing to get engagement RPM up to say around the 4-5K range with these heavy weights, are they notched and whats the spring rate of these yammi springs? Not to familiar with em yet.

 

[hobbes]

Chubby sent me a Black spring along with this supertip weight kit. I'll ask him who's it is and what the rates are for you. It is supposed to bring engagement up to 4800 or so. He is also of the opinion that loading the tips is the way to go at elevation.

On a side note, since we are all talking about 18+ lbs of boost here you guys must have the MSD fuel pump. Anybody got pics of how you mounted/installed it?

 

[happyhour]

here is a few pics of how I mounted the external fuel pump

 

[Work - Never]

Im finding conflicting opinions on this clutching issue. Surprise

If you load the toe heavy and the heel light I can see where you would pull harder on the bottom end, but won't this take away from the top end power on long pulls? I thought Outlaw told me to load the heel heavy and the toe light. After reading this thread I'm wondering if I misunderstood them???

 

[catman 1200]

i think u miss understood dustin u want to load ur toe heavy

 

[mattymac]

heavy loaded toe means more aggressive upshift, quicker engagement, and more topend belt clamp and pull, less backshift.


I think its saft to say dustin would be right for mtn riding, higher engagement and better backshift by loading the heel more and toe less.

 

[rotax]

heavy loaded toe means more aggressive upshift, quicker engagement, and more topend belt clamp and pull, less backshift.


I think its saft to say dustin would be right for mtn riding, higher engagement and better backshift by loading the heel more and toe less.

My understanding is "more" heel weight = lower engagement, better back shift, better belt bite in the low end and mid range.

I'm running the 50g "X" series weights, currently setup with 7, 7, 1 (heel, mid, tip)

Will see how it feels/pulls Rs this season.

But may mix up the weights some (pull some from mid) so I can run a steeper helix.

12# (~200HP AT elevation) @ 8k-12k