Supercharger Or Turbo
- Thread starter RX-1MT
- Start date
This thread is pretty recent, Im in the same boat as you, cant decide which way i want to go.
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72340
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72340
I've owned the MPI Stage 1 SC's on an RX-1 and an Apex. I can tell you if its for a sled with fuel injection, I'd consider the turbo for these reasons. The RX-1 with carbs is easier to dial to ur AFR, and it will just out perform the Apex 85% of the time. The 15% the Apex takes it is when it is running right. I love the instant boost of the SC, but it lacks in performance compared to the turbo.
The biggest complaint is the control box provided. It plain sucks. MPI after my controller took a $hit was gracious enough to replace it last season for free when I ran into Mac & TJ during my last trip of riding at West Yellowstone. For that I'm greatful. Being the end of the season I was glad to ride, but the controller with the new updated program at the time never worked properly. I thought it was because I had the high altitude program installed since most of my riding is above 10k, and we were riding Tog at 7k plus. Didn't complain because I wanted to check it out in CO this season. From the start it was hit and miss. It would hold program for 2 hrs then bam go into a frenzy lose program 10-30 times before finishing the day. A couple trips it worked the whole ride. Monster I tell you. It got wose later in the season. It would hold the program and just run different each time you programmed it. Possessed I think is a better description. Then knowing it would come.... the end was near...it quit working all together 15 miles from the truck and at the top of the range. Do they break anywhere else? I switched the wires and rode it out in what is supposed to be close to the stock settings. It ran I'll give it that. That's it, it was a chore to ride it out, and at this point I didn't give a $hit if she burned up. Bummer it was one of the best ride days of the season with 3' of fresh and we were the only sleders in the area. Back to the truck to grab the ole spare stock Apex. What a shot in the shorts. STOCK SUCKS, but better than wasting a great day. Anyway that was my last ride. I deployed to the desert where its 114 today, and I found out 2 weeks ago MPI inspected my fuel controller and said "Nothing Wrong". they sent it back, and I'm sure it will work once its re-installed because there is no way they'd send it back without checking it. When we sent it off, it was dead....dead... not even a blink in it. They are cheap at $300.00 plus, but you'll need a back-up if you want to feel like all ur bases are covered. Necessary as a tow rope for the Doo's or extra gas for the Poo's.
I can't say all turbo's are controller issue free, but the one's we ride with in CO....H.A. Boost and company, are always 100%. Its to the point where they've almost quit inviting us riding. Every time we team up we have issues, that slow the ride down or just kill it. Sorry guy's... Still thinking of adding an MCX Nytro to the family. Wife is the hold up.
After re-reading this it sounds like I hate MPI and my SCApex. Not true at all, but there is no way to re-word it to make it better. I Love my Sled, its a sweet ride.....I just need to drop the coin and get an extra controller, and that is my .02 if you go SC with fuel injection. What's $300.00 for piece of mind into a 25k plus sled?
Missing the snow.
Robrstopr
The biggest complaint is the control box provided. It plain sucks. MPI after my controller took a $hit was gracious enough to replace it last season for free when I ran into Mac & TJ during my last trip of riding at West Yellowstone. For that I'm greatful. Being the end of the season I was glad to ride, but the controller with the new updated program at the time never worked properly. I thought it was because I had the high altitude program installed since most of my riding is above 10k, and we were riding Tog at 7k plus. Didn't complain because I wanted to check it out in CO this season. From the start it was hit and miss. It would hold program for 2 hrs then bam go into a frenzy lose program 10-30 times before finishing the day. A couple trips it worked the whole ride. Monster I tell you. It got wose later in the season. It would hold the program and just run different each time you programmed it. Possessed I think is a better description. Then knowing it would come.... the end was near...it quit working all together 15 miles from the truck and at the top of the range. Do they break anywhere else? I switched the wires and rode it out in what is supposed to be close to the stock settings. It ran I'll give it that. That's it, it was a chore to ride it out, and at this point I didn't give a $hit if she burned up. Bummer it was one of the best ride days of the season with 3' of fresh and we were the only sleders in the area. Back to the truck to grab the ole spare stock Apex. What a shot in the shorts. STOCK SUCKS, but better than wasting a great day. Anyway that was my last ride. I deployed to the desert where its 114 today, and I found out 2 weeks ago MPI inspected my fuel controller and said "Nothing Wrong". they sent it back, and I'm sure it will work once its re-installed because there is no way they'd send it back without checking it. When we sent it off, it was dead....dead... not even a blink in it. They are cheap at $300.00 plus, but you'll need a back-up if you want to feel like all ur bases are covered. Necessary as a tow rope for the Doo's or extra gas for the Poo's.
I can't say all turbo's are controller issue free, but the one's we ride with in CO....H.A. Boost and company, are always 100%. Its to the point where they've almost quit inviting us riding. Every time we team up we have issues, that slow the ride down or just kill it. Sorry guy's... Still thinking of adding an MCX Nytro to the family. Wife is the hold up.
After re-reading this it sounds like I hate MPI and my SCApex. Not true at all, but there is no way to re-word it to make it better. I Love my Sled, its a sweet ride.....I just need to drop the coin and get an extra controller, and that is my .02 if you go SC with fuel injection. What's $300.00 for piece of mind into a 25k plus sled?
Missing the snow.
Robrstopr
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Well I Am A Dealer For Mpi And A Dealer For Powder Lites I Love Daves Products I Just Am Not A Fan Of Mid Mounts I Like To Keep The Stock Look, Does Anyone Know If Daves New Fuel Control Box Will Work With Superchargers (i Hope Dave Is Reading This So He Can Answer) I Like The Arm Ripping Power A Turbo Has, I Just Am Not Familer With Superchargers We Did One This Year Is All And A Couple Turbo Nytros!! I Guess My Other ? Is What Is More Turn Key Reliable?
Turbo Or Sc
Thanks For The Replies Fellas Keep The Info Coming
Mick Thompson
Staacks Motorsports
Turbo Or Sc
Thanks For The Replies Fellas Keep The Info Coming
Mick Thompson
Staacks Motorsports
Does anyone have any pictures of a nytro with a powderlites kit, ive seen some good pictures of BD's and of Impulse's kits but not many of powderlites kits thanks Dave.
S
Snappy Sledder
Well-known member
havnt seen many pics w/ mcx kits either
U
Ultralord
Well-known member
Ya thats my issue to, I am affraid of MPI I would sure like to do a supercharger but I have heard to many issues with the contol box and a coupe of charger failures. I like the stock look and the stock sound IT would be nice if the rb3 box would work check with MOB he has a powerlites kit it works real nice I rode it a couple of weeks ago spot on throttle response.I think daves kit is 6 g the charger is 5 but less work.
FYI All the control boxes are made by the same company. Each dealer just puts a their sticker on top, their developed program inside, and claim the controler is theirs. That said they should all have issues or lemmons, but I'm not sure if turbos are as finicky as the SC's seem to be with mapping.
Robrstopr
Robrstopr
M
modsledr
Well-known member
Dobek makes all the fuel control boxes,EXCEPT for the Rapid Bike boxes (RB3 used by powderlites)...someone correct me if this isn't correct.
modsledr
I had nothing but problems with my super all year. Finally got it to work great.
Had no mechanical failures with MPI's produst, they have good workmanship.
When you talk to MPI be sure to order a fuel regulator, a/f guage, and liquid filled boost guage.
CR Racing has a mounting system that works, MPI's doesn't work for the guages.
Need a vacumn operated BOV.
Need to build a cold air intake.
MPI's cultching is a good for flat land going, but no backshift at all.
Should install a headshim or low comp pistons, help with detonatoin and can run premium fuel and get a higher compression temp. This is a huge issue for some reason on the s/c.
MPI will tell you different, but this has helped out alot of people.
Had no mechanical failures with MPI's produst, they have good workmanship.
When you talk to MPI be sure to order a fuel regulator, a/f guage, and liquid filled boost guage.
CR Racing has a mounting system that works, MPI's doesn't work for the guages.
Need a vacumn operated BOV.
Need to build a cold air intake.
MPI's cultching is a good for flat land going, but no backshift at all.
Should install a headshim or low comp pistons, help with detonatoin and can run premium fuel and get a higher compression temp. This is a huge issue for some reason on the s/c.
MPI will tell you different, but this has helped out alot of people.
P
powderlites
Well-known member
EFI Control boxes
We have a customer's Superchared FX Nytro that is getting head spacer, Blowoff valve, and Cam timing then to the dyno with Rapid Bike 3 to see how it goes.
I am sure that with the adjustments that can be made with RB3 it will be better then ever with Dobeck box.
I was one of the first guys to play with Dobeck stuff on these sleds and I can make them run as good as anyone can, but once something comes along that is better I try it out and see how the theory is behind it.
Motorcycle's have aways been ahead of sleds.
We come up with a Radio Shack voltage clamp that we built by hand for testing on Apex's
Voltage clamp is to pull fuel and not really the way it should be done.
Dobeck box has loadbase over Boondocker stuff.
I could get into lots of info on these boxes but Rapid bike 3 is trick with changing pulse without voltage clamp.
Getting power from key/Batt. and not injectors.
Using a GM style 2 or 3 map sensor that is used all over the world.
We can up the RPM limiter by 1000 RPM
Load based and can be used with map or TPS sensor
2 maps that can by switched on the fly.
When we put bigger injectors in it was very easy to make run perfect in few minutes.
We can all learn with sharing maps and setups to have the newest and best performance sleds out there.
I feel that this is the start of something that will be very big in the future of EFI sleds.
http://www.powderlites.com
Changing boxes back to back on dyno with Nytro made me feel sick with how much better running and even starting with RB3
We have a customer's Superchared FX Nytro that is getting head spacer, Blowoff valve, and Cam timing then to the dyno with Rapid Bike 3 to see how it goes.
I am sure that with the adjustments that can be made with RB3 it will be better then ever with Dobeck box.
I was one of the first guys to play with Dobeck stuff on these sleds and I can make them run as good as anyone can, but once something comes along that is better I try it out and see how the theory is behind it.
Motorcycle's have aways been ahead of sleds.
We come up with a Radio Shack voltage clamp that we built by hand for testing on Apex's
Voltage clamp is to pull fuel and not really the way it should be done.
Dobeck box has loadbase over Boondocker stuff.
I could get into lots of info on these boxes but Rapid bike 3 is trick with changing pulse without voltage clamp.
Getting power from key/Batt. and not injectors.
Using a GM style 2 or 3 map sensor that is used all over the world.
We can up the RPM limiter by 1000 RPM
Load based and can be used with map or TPS sensor
2 maps that can by switched on the fly.
When we put bigger injectors in it was very easy to make run perfect in few minutes.
We can all learn with sharing maps and setups to have the newest and best performance sleds out there.
I feel that this is the start of something that will be very big in the future of EFI sleds.
http://www.powderlites.com
Changing boxes back to back on dyno with Nytro made me feel sick with how much better running and even starting with RB3
M
modsledr
Well-known member
Hey Dave, talked to you a little at BIS in Revy and rode your TNytro...I was there with MOB (who is LOVING your setup on his Nytro!!). I have a nytro with stage II S/C, that was set up by Tom Hartman.
I would love to see you get the RB3 box dialed in for the S/C's...as would a LOT of others. I think the basic's of the MPI kit are sound...just needs someone like Tom and you to finish them off. Nice to have options!!
If you need another sled to guinea pig...I'd be happy to volunteer mine. I have no complaints about it now...already has the BOV and updated fuel pressure regulator...runs clean and smooth, but I'm sure you will improve that!!
I would love to add a headshim and cam timing adjustments, install the stage III pulleys (16 lbs), and still be able to run pump gas. Ideal world for me!!
modsledr
I would love to see you get the RB3 box dialed in for the S/C's...as would a LOT of others. I think the basic's of the MPI kit are sound...just needs someone like Tom and you to finish them off. Nice to have options!!
If you need another sled to guinea pig...I'd be happy to volunteer mine. I have no complaints about it now...already has the BOV and updated fuel pressure regulator...runs clean and smooth, but I'm sure you will improve that!!
I would love to add a headshim and cam timing adjustments, install the stage III pulleys (16 lbs), and still be able to run pump gas. Ideal world for me!!
modsledr
Hey Dave, talked to you a little at BIS in Revy and rode your TNytro...I was there with MOB (who is LOVING your setup on his Nytro!!). I have a nytro with stage II S/C, that was set up by Tom Hartman.
I would love to see you get the RB3 box dialed in for the S/C's...as would a LOT of others. I think the basic's of the MPI kit are sound...just needs someone like Tom and you to finish them off. Nice to have options!!
If you need another sled to guinea pig...I'd be happy to volunteer mine. I have no complaints about it now...already has the BOV and updated fuel pressure regulator...runs clean and smooth, but I'm sure you will improve that!!
I would love to add a headshim and cam timing adjustments, install the stage III pulleys (16 lbs), and still be able to run pump gas. Ideal world for me!!
modsledr
X2.
We will be in touch Dave.
Run the system that won the BDSO!
www.impulseturbo.com
I've thrown a leg over about everything that is out there and none are as responsive as Paul's setup for the Apex or Nytro.
www.impulseturbo.comI've thrown a leg over about everything that is out there and none are as responsive as Paul's setup for the Apex or Nytro.
M
modsledr
Well-known member
RX1-MT, sorry the thread got a little off track there...
If you look at the thread linked by irondave86, there is some great info...
I love the response of the S/C...however, most of the current turbos have pretty much eliminated lag as well. If you want the most possible power on top, then the turbo is the way to go, hands down.
I ride a lot of different types of terrain, and the on/off/on/off throttle situations really suite the S/C power characteristics. Plus, the power delivery is very linear with TONS of low end...feels like riding a large twin 2stroke, but with more power (and you can hold it open as long as you want!!!)
If Dave can get the RB3 box working for the S/C, then it should get even better.
Best advice is to try to ride both and make your decision. I'm in western WA and there are lots of rides left this year...shoot me a PM if you're able to ride WA and I'm more than happy to let you take 'er for a rip. I let someone in our group ride it yesterday, and he came away saying it was "perfect" for our riding.
modsledr
If you look at the thread linked by irondave86, there is some great info...
I love the response of the S/C...however, most of the current turbos have pretty much eliminated lag as well. If you want the most possible power on top, then the turbo is the way to go, hands down.
I ride a lot of different types of terrain, and the on/off/on/off throttle situations really suite the S/C power characteristics. Plus, the power delivery is very linear with TONS of low end...feels like riding a large twin 2stroke, but with more power (and you can hold it open as long as you want!!!)
If Dave can get the RB3 box working for the S/C, then it should get even better.
Best advice is to try to ride both and make your decision. I'm in western WA and there are lots of rides left this year...shoot me a PM if you're able to ride WA and I'm more than happy to let you take 'er for a rip. I let someone in our group ride it yesterday, and he came away saying it was "perfect" for our riding.
modsledr
I have had both super and turbos if its for apex or nytr I would go turbo they just plain work better everywhere especially fuel mileage issues. As for throttle response its not an issue with the Powder lites kits. Dave has learned and built some of the best stuff out there. His new rb3 is changing the EFI market and putting many smiles on faces including mine. My nytro turbo runs wicked an d just waiting for parts to convert my apex over. Double down pipe,rb3 with timing advance on low boost timing retard as boost climbs. Hope this helps. As for the Dobeck or PureLogic controllers they are junk And Macs programming is sketchy at best
B
bigbull
Well-known member
IMPULSE turbo with PROLOGGER and your chosen fuel controller. The turbo system kicks serious arse. Super responsive and the most fun turbo on a 4 stroke I have owned or ridden IMO. Love the Prologger. But then again, I am gauge addicted, "stop watching the display and watch out for that tree!"
BB
BB
All ready told you that mine runs fine on pump gas, right now. Now that my **** is here to turn it up it's going to be different. better just go big there mick, don't be afraid, just make sure BOONDOCKERS sends all the **** at once!
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