Steep downhill to sidehill riding technique question

[tkuss]

So I have a riding problem I am hoping some decent riders on here can help with. When going on a steep downhill, I lay the sled over on its side to try to slow it down a bit, so I can get into a sidehill. Problem is more times than not, when I lay all the way over like burandt and such can do, I fall off my sled and end up just dragging behind hit holding onto the handlebars. The sled is generally still on its side though.

Generally I am in the wrong foot forward postion while doing this, and feel like this maybe the problem, as I don't have much force to keep my foot on the boards as soon as I lay it over and start dragging in the snow. At times I try to keep my feet on either side of the sled, but that makes it harder for me to get into my sidehill if I get the sled over on its side, as I don't have as much leverage from my body positioning. I am thinking of keeping my left foot in the footwell, and right foot farther back on the boards If I am going downhill with the sled on its left side, then going to sidehill to the left. I am thinking this might be easier to keep my lower half of my body on the sled and not slowly getting dragged off as soon as I lay it over in the snow.

Anybody have similar problems?? Any advice out there? I feel like this really limiting me on the steep hills, as If I don't get it over I need to go all the way to the bottom of the hill again.

 

[vdog0531]

what kind of sled are you on?

from what you are describing, it sounds like you are riding behind the sled, meaning you are not planning far enough forward to have your body in the correct position. Also, what do you weigh? i'm 260 on an m sled so i dont have to go wrong foot forward nearly as much as someone who is 160 which allows me to stay more neutral on the sled so i can try and stay ahead of the sled without using up too much energy.

 

[rmk685]

I think one of the biggest keys to successfully doing this move is to get the sled at its slowest speed possible. Depending on the snow conditions and hill incline you may have to use your brake right before you tip sled over, give it some throttle(not to much) and countersteer all at the same time in order to get sled on its side UNDER CONTROL.

Biggest problem I see is that people often times use to much throttle, which in turn gets you out of control or position. Watch Burandt for instance, he is very rarley wide open except in very small bursts, then he usually dumps the throttle to keep control.

 

[maddog21]

only if there some 10+ inch powder on the hills, you easy can. if the snow has hard surface, I dont see anyone have done it.
sound like you need to install a handlebar block, I have a 8 inch block on mine.

hope it help

 

[m8sandman]

x2 if the pows not deep enough it won't happen. i also try to get the sled turning before i lay it all the way over so your not fighting keeping it from falling all the way flat and turning it at the same time. a quick blip of the throttle and a push on the inside rear of the tunnel to get the rear to "slide" a little also helps...

 

[vdog0531]

only if there some 10+ inch powder on the hills, you easy can. if the snow has hard surface, I dont see anyone have done it.
sound like you need to install a handlebar block, I have a 8 inch block on mine.

hope it help

i would have to dis agree with this statement. A taller handle bar would only exaggerate your issue by keeping you further away from the position you should be in.

 

[XFIRE800]

Ape Hangers save lives . Sound like your lacking running board traction?? Make sure you are getting way forward.

 

[Dam Dave]

only if there some 10+ inch powder on the hills, you easy can. if the snow has hard surface, I dont see anyone have done it.
sound like you need to install a handlebar block, I have a 8 inch block on mine.

hope it help

more riser lol, flat lander answer Just kidding

more riser will not help and it can be done on hard snow, just watch Rasmussen

 

[mulestar]

I have been working on this same thing alot this year with I feel some success too. I found out if get forward as much as I can, slow the sled as much as I can, counter steer and shift your weight to the direction you are trying to turn, you should feel the sled almost fall to the side you chose to pull your side hill to. I try to be neutral in position up to this point, although you can be wrong foot forward off to one side if you want, then I like to go wrong foot forward (if I am not already) to the upside of the hill. Then pull the sled like you were in a side hill once you feel you have the sled committed to the hill. I have never needed much throttle to get it over, just enough to help it carve into the hill. Hopefully when you are done you will be in a side hill, in which you can keep side hilling or point it up for more.

This is all on an m series, not sure how this would work on other brands though.

I do know it has been fun trying this this year, and probably the best advice its to keep trying, I had lots of falls doing it, but who cares right?

 

[907to406]

Go into your approach at a slow speed, get into the wrong foot forward position (with the wrong foot far up on your running board but not in the footwell, just in case the sled gets away from you you don't get your foot caught). make your counter steer maneuver and get the sled onto its side. Now if the hill your are descending is steep enough your going to want to take the foot thats not on the running board (the leg hanging off the sled) and put it out and straight in front/parallel with your sled, just like you see dirtbike riders do coming into a hard turn. Give this technique a try. If your getting sucked off the back of your sled this just might fix it. I have used this on numerous steep, steep downhills and it works a lot better than tucking your off hanging leg behind you which can contribute to pulling you off the back of your sled.

Good luck.

 

[maddog21]

I forget to tell you that I am 6"3', own a 04 vertical escape

 

[tkuss]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Just to clear a few things up, Im bout 210-220 all geared up I would imagine. I have an 07 m1000, that has a tunnel modded up to be like the 09 and newer tunnels.

While I don't claim I am the best rider, I feel I have a chance of hanging with most people. I just go out and try to have fun everytime Here is a little helmet cam vid of me from this year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0R2R8jFOvc

I can do the downhill to sidehill maneuver easily on most slopes. What I am really trying to figure out, is those really steep ones. The ones where your headed down, you lay the sled completely on one of its sidepanels and it is still not stopping, just because the slope is so steep. So basically I have the sled all the way on its side, and it is not slowing down, and slowly I just seem to lose the grip off my running boards and my lower half comes detached from the sled.

Basically I am trying to figure out feet position to where I can ride down hill with my sled tipped all the way sideways. I feel if I could do this more consistently I would have more control coming down steep hills and give myself a better chance of missing trees, or hopefully putting the sled into a sidehill. Also I realize and have experienced the more pow you have, the more easy and forgiving your sled is in performing backcountry manuevers

All I know is I love trying to figure this stuff out and can't wait to get out and ride again! If you have any other ideas, advice, or stories, post them up I would love to read them!

 

[Covelli44]

As said above, keep your weight forward. Taller bars = weight transfer towards the rear. You want your weight towards the ski spindle of which you are turning onto. This will allow the sled to remain in a sidehill position and have a controlled decent. The further back you are on the tunnel, the more the sled will want to start climbing back up the hill. Keep on practicing! Thank you for starting this thread, I love reading them and learning myself!

 

[rmk685]

Taller bars = weight transfer towards the rear.

You are actually 100% wrong on this one. Taller bars = weight transfer to the front since you are on a downhill descent Also, Taller bars = Higher center of gravity. And once you go over center 90% of the time its to late to recover and you're going downhill.

Think of it this way, your sidehilling through some steep terrain and you hit something which upsets your body(knocks you out of balance), and naturally your sled heads down hill because you lost your leverage due to what you hit. With shorter bars you keep your center of gravity lower and less risk of this happening and better chance of recovering.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I think what he is saying is normally taller bars cause you to stand in a more rearward position which when trying to initiate a steep downhill turn is more apt to cause the rear of the sled to spinout since you have more rider weight back further on the boards(at least that is what I read into it and beleive that is what brett and chris teach as well)

 

[rmk685]

I think what he is saying is normally taller bars cause you to stand in a more rearward position which when trying to initiate a steep downhill turn is more apt to cause the rear of the sled to spinout since you have more rider weight back further on the boards(at least that is what I read into it and beleive that is what brett and chris teach as well)

Exactly, the farther back your feet are positioned going downhill the more pressure you are putting on the front end of the sled(taller bars make it even worse). If your feet are up tight against the kick plate you are putting much less pressure on your handle bars holding yourself up(not what I recommend just using it as a example). The biggest thing is getting your weight shifted from the downhill descent to a sidehill position in a smooth controllable manner, while keeping the sled under control. From my experience if the sled spinouts out or the backend washouts, most generally I am going to be facing back up hill.

It don't matter what anyone on here preaches or says(including myself) its all about practice and learning from your own mistakes as everyone rides differently.

 

[AKboondocker]

Throttle control is your answer. Both feet need to be on the uphill side board, horizontal to the front of the sled and evenly spaced on the boards , keep feet out of the footwells. You should be basically standing with both kneecaps about touching the one side of your seat, with your toes on the edges of the running boards, heels hanging off the side of the boards.

1. Descend the slope heading straight down as usual.
2. Tap the brake and simultaneously put both feet on the side of the sled that will be uphill as mentioned above.
3. Give a short, controlled burst of throttle right after you tap the brake, and countersteer away from the hill to get the sled into position to start initiating a sidehill. At this time your body will literally be in the snow on the uphill side, sliding along with the sled in unison.
4. Let off the gas just enough to control the direction the sled is heading and to not allow it to wash out with too much throttle
5. Feather the throttle lightly going in and out of the gas to find the fine line that allows sideways progression, while not wanting to wash out or right itself and head back downhill. This may be the time a "wrong foot forward" will help if its super deep, to push with and get the sled gaining momentum into the sidehill.

Throttle control and balance are key. It seems tough but once you do it enough, it becomes second nature and will seem effortless. Remember its not about "throwing" the sled this way or that, its a combination of throttle control and weight transfer/balance, much like driving a stick shift car.

Another method is to head downhill, then use the wrong foot forward and dig your off leg into the snow as a pivot point, then giving a burst of throttle to initiate the sidehill. Its good to become proficient both ways, but the overall method remains the same. Good Luck