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Sno mo specific Avy courses..where are they?

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Have you ever wondered why there are no snomo specific avalanche courses offered in Washington?


I will let you all in on a dirty little secret....The lack of snomo specific avy courses is due to Forest Service policy, plain and simple. It is a permitting issue, and the fact is there are no funds to administer any new permits, so they are simply not issuing them as a departmental policy. I have been attempting for 10 years to get a permit, and know the in's and out's of the process intimately.

My name is Michael Jackson (MJ), and I am a Professional Avalanche Educator. Since 1999 I have been the Executive Director of a nonprofit called The Alpine Safety Awareness Program (ASAP). ASAP has a goal of making safety a habit by using local resources to teach avalanche awareness courses.
I have been teaching courses for many, many years, and the past five years have found me re-focusing my efforts on the snowmobile community. I have an incredible group of snowmobiler's that have been through a training program, that currently help in the delivery of a one-day, snomo specific awareness course. They are also the future of snomobile avalanche education, and together we will be offering on-the-snow courses on a limited basis this year, with more in the coming years. WSSA has endorsed our efforts, and Mick Steinman, the WSSA Safety Director is a critical part of both our outreach and our instruction team. We are currently recruiting other professional avalanche educators to assist in our efforts.

While there are District Rangers that are willing to risk their professional careers by making exceptions to the current no-permit policy, they are in the minority, and their efforts will bear little fruit for this season. They see the crisis of of no snomo courses specific avy courses, and they feel they need to try and meet the demand to the best of their abilities. Remember: the reason there are no permits available is NOT because the FS doesn't want them; the problem is that it is much easier to say NO than it is to find a solution.

What you all can do is very simple, and you are all already very good at it: Contact your club President, WSSA, Sled Dealers, etc., anyone with a voice. We need to bang the drum and get the word out to the USFS, legislators, EVERYONE with any influence on changing a policy decision.

This current policy is contrary to stated USFS policy of meeting the needs of the public for recreation on public lands. Without any doubt, currently one of the most pressing needs for the snowmobile community is to get educated on how to travel safely in avalanche terrain. Help me to get this situation changed so that we don't have to read about sledder's dying needlessly in preventable avalanche accidents.

Please check my references (modsledr, diamonddave, coyotegirl) so that you don't have to take what I say with a grain of salt. I speak from experience, and don't want to waste your time or mine. The fact of the matter is we need to get our voices heard, and we need to do it NOW, not later.
Start getting the word out to anyone and everyone: We need to have the opportunity to take a class that might just save our lives, taught by sledders, for sledders. We need to let the Forest Service know that they need to look for solutions in the short term, and the long term will take care of itself.
 
I would also suggest that everyone contact your local FS office. The squeaky wheel often gets the grease... if they hear enough people asking for such a critter, they may be willing to pull the strings to make it happen.
 
Morning MJ - my other half & I took your course last Dec (5th maybe) in North Bend and it was super informative. We have been talking about taking the same course again just for a refresher & probably didn't get it all the first time around. Oh yeah that was the class you split your pants. Sorry I'll get back on track now. At the time there was discussion about a class on the snow & you explained about the forest service issue. MS has kept me on his e-mail notifications - so we look for an on the snow class. Yeasterday on the on line version of the Ellensburg Daily Record (kvnews.com) there was an article about search & rescue and the education they receive. I believe the article referred to a Sgt Fred Slyfield of the Kittitas Co Sherrifs. They spoke of an on the snow class in January. I might call them to see if non search & resuce people can pay to sign up or go along to audit the class. I know if the scheduling would work it seems like many people would take a class. And by the way - every time we stop for a break since your class we take a look around to make sure its not a terrian trap!! thanks again for what you do:)
 
MJ -

I'm not sure I fully understand the problem. Are you saying there is an allotment of permits specifically for avalanche awareness courses and currently those are or already have been approved for non-snowmobile specific classes? Or is the problem the FS is either short on time or the administrative costs are too high to process additional permits?

What is the permit process you have to go thru and why do you have to do it?

thanks, Kord
 
The problem is that the FS is not administering new permits. The existing permits do not allow for snomo classes, as they were issued for non-mechanized and the environmental impact statement would not reflect the same issues for a mechanized course.

1. Current permit holders/concessionaires do not service the snowmobile population for avalanche education.

2. The Forest Service is not issuing new Special Use permits for concessionaires (the title an avalanche educator is listed under) as a result of now funding to research and administer the new permits. There is a moratorium, with no end in sight.

3. Any on-the-snow avalanche classes for snowmobilers are being taught on ski's and snowshoes, which is not what the snomo population wants to take.
With this current method of delivery, the awareness message is getting out to only a fraction of the snowmobile community.


I am afraid unless we push hard RIGHT NOW, this issue will stay in the background until someone loses a sister of a brother, a fmother of a father, a cousin, or a close friend.

We need help in the form of Media attention to get the word out. If you think about this, why should we have to fight so hard to save lives?
 
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Morning MJ - my other half & I took your course last Dec (5th maybe) in North Bend and it was super informative. We have been talking about taking the same course again just for a refresher & probably didn't get it all the first time around. Oh yeah that was the class you split your pants. Sorry I'll get back on track now. At the time there was discussion about a class on the snow & you explained about the forest service issue. MS has kept me on his e-mail notifications - so we look for an on the snow class. Yeasterday on the on line version of the Ellensburg Daily Record (kvnews.com) there was an article about search & rescue and the education they receive. I believe the article referred to a Sgt Fred Slyfield of the Kittitas Co Sherrifs. They spoke of an on the snow class in January. I might call them to see if non search & resuce people can pay to sign up or go along to audit the class. I know if the scheduling would work it seems like many people would take a class. And by the way - every time we stop for a break since your class we take a look around to make sure its not a terrian trap!! thanks again for what you do:)

Aha, the infamous pant splitting. Well, I have some news for YOU! I didn't split the pants, the pants split me... never trust thread-bare Carharts...

On the issue of snomo avy ed., please forward anything you find out. We need to get together on this. Incidentally, contact Cle Elum FS about a class this Sunday at the station. I will be there assisting the other instructors. It would be great to see you there... please bring some duct tape in case of a repeat performance by my Carharts....
 
I saw that class - but we need to finish the house remodel project first - took over the garage to stain molding etc - need to get that done so the sleds can get in the garage & get a tune up - the snows coming!!!
 
MJ -

I appreciate your follow up responses. I also really appreciate what you are trying to accomplish.

Can you tell me if there is difference between a permit for a avy course and a snowmobile guide service? Could it be possible to have an avy course paired with and doing guise as a guide service? That is essentially what your day one snow is. Or, would the FS squawk at the fact you are selling one thing (guide) but doing another (certified avy course)? ....can you even ride a snowmobile?:D

trying to help...thanks, Kord
 
To be honest, I can't answer the question with absolute certainty, so I am not going to. I don't want to speak about FS policies unless I myself know without any doubt what I am talking about. In this case, I don't, so if some FS employee out there can speak on the record and clear up this question, you will have to wait until I can check.

I am curious as to whether or not you know of a Snomo Guide service? Maybe they better than anyone can answer you question.

Thanks again for your interest in changing the policy. It is an uphill battle and one that is monetarily driven, unfortunately.
 
Its not that the FS doesn't want to help out... its very complicated as Powderhino said and would require A LOT of time and money investment to accomplish... neither of which we have much of.

I'm not trying to call you out but what exactly is so complicated and what time and money would it take away from the FS to make this happen? Wouldn't the money come from the people paying for the course?

I want to help and love being the squeaky wheel for a good cause. We need some names and e-mail addresses of the key decision makers.
 
You are not calling me out. I appreciate the chance to speak openly and honestly about this situation.

Unfortunately, it is nowhere near as easy as it may seem, and the worst part of the whole equation is that most every Forest Service employee would like to see this happen. They too are frustrated by the policy and want to see it changed. The legislature (you local Representative, Congressman, (woman), Senator, etc. need to use their influence to change the policy. Once the policy is changed, we can work on funding.

With fhe issue of funding the special use permit, the problem is that course fee's would also have to go to pay intructors, as well as pay to administer the permit.
I can, and have, taught avy classes for free. As long as no money changes hands, then you are not considered a concessionaire, and in the eyes of the Forest Service you are looked upon as just another do-gooder stacking up Karma, which they don't have to administer or watch over.

Ummmm.... I don't know about you, but I have got a few lifetime's worth of Karma stacked up from all of my volunteer efforts. If I am teaching a course now, I am getting paid, period. Of course I still do evening awareness classes for free, and others should too, but for a full-on avy course, I am no longer giving them away. So now the Forest Service looks at me differently, once the money comes into play. Does this help to clarify the situation?
 
Eric

I think what MJ is saying is if as a FS concessionaire applying for a permit you could select 'Avalanche Course - Ski/Snowshoe' but there is no option for 'Avalanche Course - Snowmobile'.

For the 'Avalanche Course - Snowmobile' to become an option some dept within the FS has to approve it. Part of the approval process incorporates an environmental assessment. Who knows what that entails but it is sure to cost a bunch of money and take a bunch of time.

So about that squeaky wheel.... MJ, who do you recommend we contact? Are these people folks who would regularly be in contact with snowmobile clubs?

kord
 
Morning MJ - Yeasterday on the on line version of the Ellensburg Daily Record (kvnews.com) there was an article about search & rescue and the education they receive. I believe the article referred to a Sgt Fred Slyfield of the Kittitas Co Sherrifs. They spoke of an on the snow class in January. I might call them to see if non search & resuce people can pay to sign up or go along to audit the class.

It's a noble idea, but don't think this class would be open. This is the last session of an ongoing class that started in November. I'm in the class and it has been great training.

Hopefully, the FS and others here will offer more classes. All should attend...
 
I'm not trying to call you out but what exactly is so complicated and what time and money would it take away from the FS to make this happen? Wouldn't the money come from the people paying for the course?

I want to help and love being the squeaky wheel for a good cause. We need some names and e-mail addresses of the key decision makers.
I'm not the best person to ask, because I'm not up on the permit process but...
basically it takes a lot of "behind the scenes" BS internally to issue a permit. It has to be reviewed by different specialists to make sure that their resource area isn't being impacted in a way they don't want, mitigation measures have to be identified, etc. Where will the course be? How many people? How many times are they going to go up there? Will it screw up recreational opportunity for other users? Etc etc... it gets complicated fast. Since I really have no clue what I'm talking about... I don't want to give bad info to anyone. The best suggestion I have would be to contact the person in charge of recreation at your local FS office... they most often are the ones dealing with the special use permit process. I will try and get some info as well and post back when I find out more.
 
Kord,

Thanks for the thmbnail sketch. Not 100% accurate, but close enough to get the dialog going.

Here is whom you need to contact:

1. Your club President. Have them either write a letter of support for issuing new special use permits for snowmobile avalanche education to your local Forest Service Ranger. They should mention how many members are in the club, how many children ride, parents, etc. Get the Human Factor into the discussion. Use this link to locate the contact information. Cut and paste to your browser and get busy.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/pdx/forests.shtml#washington

2. You Friends. Have them do the same thing, especially if they are sprinkeld all over the state or region. We don't want to appear as if it is just one small group of cranky riders. Hell, we want every rider in the STATE to appear cranky and not willing to sit on our throttle thumbs anymore....


3. Your local Representative. http://www.wssa.us/ This website has ALL the contact information you need for contacting your legislators.
Politicians LOVE this stuff. They can look like heroes by delivering something to their constituents that will make them look good, and at the same time save lives. Again, bring the human element into the discussion. If I was to write the letter, I would mention that through my lack of preparation and lack of training, I killed my best friend in an avalanche - killed him dead because I did not have the proper training to recognize the danger, or to conduct a proper search after the avalanche.

4. WSSA Yup, we need the power of a State Organization behind this effort as well as the grass root support. http://www.wssa.us/
as well.

5. The media Call your buddy the reporter you know, or contact someone at KOMO, KING 5, NWCN, or any other TV outlet. If they want to make a difference in their community, than this is one way they can. They will bring the spotlight on a topic that needs to be addressed.

This is a good start, but the important thing is to not just read this, but to pass it on, and get the ball rolling. We need to make this happen NOW in order to get some courses going in time to make a difference.
 
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I'm not the best person to ask, because I'm not up on the permit process but...
basically it takes a lot of "behind the scenes" BS internally to issue a permit. It has to be reviewed by different specialists to make sure that their resource area isn't being impacted in a way they don't want, mitigation measures have to be identified, etc. Where will the course be? How many people? How many times are they going to go up there? Will it screw up recreational opportunity for other users? Etc etc... it gets complicated fast. Since I really have no clue what I'm talking about... I don't want to give bad info to anyone. The best suggestion I have would be to contact the person in charge of recreation at your local FS office... they most often are the ones dealing with the special use permit process. I will try and get some info as well and post back when I find out more.

Thanks for your efforts, and I look forward to hearing more!

MJ
 
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