Sledders on Mt Stuart

[summitchaser]

I have a friend with the FS and he was telling me they are looking into a couple of sledders that get their sled air lifted in by chopper then they ride the stuarts. He is not part of the investigation so he didn't know much of the particulars. If that is true these folks probaly have enough money to pay the fine and laugh or pay a high priced lawyer to spank the goverment and get it all dropped.

I don't like the idea of wilderness areas, but how are we supposed to win land back if we can't respect the boundries we have now?

 

[summitchaser]

I found out last night that the fine for riding in wilderness is only 250.00 and only a misdemeanor. That is not much of a deterant if you ask me.

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

I found out last night that the fine for riding in wilderness is only 250.00 and only a misdemeanor. That is not much of a deterant if you ask me.

The fine CAN be $5000 and 6 months in jail if they want to throw the book at you. Especially if they are going to be so arrogant about it and thumb their noses at the boundary.

 

[Lake Cle Elum]

I have a friend with the FS and he was telling me they are looking into a couple of sledders that get their sled air lifted in by chopper then they ride the stuarts. He is not part of the investigation so he didn't know much of the particulars. If that is true these folks probaly have enough money to pay the fine and laugh or pay a high priced lawyer to spank the goverment and get it all dropped.

I don't like the idea of wilderness areas, but how are we supposed to win land back if we can't respect the boundries we have now?

Thanks for the info Chris. Seems like the pilot is taking a big risk of having his bird Confiscated???????

 

[blindman]

b.s. on the chopper drop

there is no way any pilot that loves to fly would risk his license to do that.

all it takes is a couple of complaints around the seattle or any area to cause them major grief.....

i believe wilderness drop off is urban legend. as they yank your chopper license real quick if you have any complaints.

and the kind of chopper that could drop sleds would be huge coin/ to risk it.


the frickin punks ridin in this wilderness are soon to get what they deserve.

 

[summitchaser]

The fine CAN be $5000 and 6 months in jail if they want to throw the book at you. Especially if they are going to be so arrogant about it and thumb their noses at the boundary.

That is a much better fine, can you tell me does that fine go through the Federal court since it is FS or does that go through our local dist. court?

Blindman you could be right calling b\s it sure seems like alot to risk. I have heard from 2 different people that I consider reliable that someone is doing it. Although I haven't seen anything first hand that would say so.

I am really not familiar with anything that has to do with avation, other than they fly. Could someone with oodles of money get a pilot to drop a sled off and the pilot not know he is in wilderness or are pilots well educated in that respect.

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

That is a much better fine, can you tell me does that fine go through the Federal court since it is FS or does that go through our local dist. court?

Sorry summitchaser, but I am not sure. You would think Federal court.

I did a quick search after my post, just in case you wanted some reference info, and here are a few things I found on wilderness fines.

______________________________________

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/stanislaus/news/2008/2008-0221-snowmobile.shtml


News Release
USDA Forest Service
Stanislaus National Forest

Contact: Public Affairs (209) 532-3671 ext. 244/245

Illegal Snow Mobile Use Cited in Wilderness Area

Operating motorize vehicles within any National Forest designated Wilderness is prohibited to protect Wilderness values. Illegally operating a motorized vehicle in Wilderness is a serious offense, and can result in costly fines and even jail time. The Eastern District Court has set the bail for operating a motorized vehicle in Wilderness at $400. The maximum punishment for a violation is up to $5,000, or imprisonment for not more than six months or both for an individual.

http://www.wilderness.net/toolboxes/documents/trespass/snowmobile_strategy_2004.doc

Rocky Mountain Region Snowmobile I & E Strategy Appendix H

Suggested Actions for Dealing With Intentional Trespass

• Issue Mandatory Appearance citations rather than Collateral Forfeiture citations. This allows the magistrate to set penalties up to the maximum of a $5000 fine and 6 months in jail and allows the Forest Service to ask for restitution. Go into court adequately prepared to demonstrate that the violation was willful, intentional, deliberate, and blatant or not this individual’s first offense.

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2008/02/12/news/news02.txt

Snowmobile violations increasing

The penalty for riding in a non-motorized area ranges from $200 to $5,000, with additional penalties allowed under the discretion of the magistrate. Potential fines for snowmobiling in a wilderness area range from $300 to $5,000.

 

[C-BRIAN-P]

There Has To Be Some Better Areas For A Chopper To Drop A Sled Than Up There!!

Maybe A Glacier On Rainier????

Sounds Kinda Out There....

Pictures Of A Chopper Would Get The Dude In Short Order Too!!

Take Them And Post Them If Possible!!!!

 

[Hillboy]

The chopper story is fully Bu#! SH#@ and the forest service knows it. They are just trying to get ammo for the up and coming alpine expansion to stop us from using all the area we love.
Hill

 

[Reverup]

You might as well ride the wilderness with them because they are not going to give you any riding areas back. They only take. If everyone would ride the wilderness they (USFS) would be singing a different tune.

 

[Hillboy]

I have had this conversation with Todd at the FS and told him I will respect wilderness as it stands but anymore and you will make me a criminal and if you choose to do that bring it on I will gladly play the game and fight the fight.

 

[Hardass]

I agree rev

I agree with rev were not going to get riding areas back, thats a pipe dream.They will use this as a tool though to bolser there side. And about the fines and jail time they can't even keep child molesters in jail but will turn them loose with a tag like most likely to reoffend. every thing is going green these days it;s all over the tvs.i really wish there was a way to stop it but sorry not going to happen and any one and i mean any one that thinks they can has the blinders on. you better enjoy whats left while you can because we have seen the best of it and it;s fading. Sorry but thats reality. Just so you know we have lost most all of our good riding here, even though there was over welming support by our comminity to keep lands open. we really do not have much say as it's a notional forest. People from nebraska and other far away places that have never even been here or care how it impacts us are making the decisions not the locals. And its the same where you live.

 

[Hillboy]

so become a criminal Larry

 

[Reverup]

Here is more of my idea. We as sledders need to start riding the wilderness every weekend, give as much as you possibly can to SAWS and the other clubs, get some lawyers and start taking back some wilderness and other areas. Are they going to throw that many people in jail for riding the wilderness? You (if you rode the wilderness) are not damaging any property or hurting anyone. You are only making tracks in the snow on the other side of an imaginary line that someone has drawn on a map. Sledders and skiers and helicopters should be able to use the the wilderness areas all winter long. No one else is using these places in the winter and there are no animals back there at this time of year, only a few squirrels and the occasional lynx. Like Hard said alot of the people that support land closure don't even live near or know where the land is that they are closing. I say ride the widerness as much as you can and enjoy it, if they close your local riding area because someone rode the wilderness then ride that too. You are not a criminal they are making you a criminal.

Reverup

 

[dragonrider08]

most people cant make it into the wilderness anyways so that only gives us 20 percent of riders to take the fall

 

[Hillboy]

I really like this idea, have a protest ride in the wilderness.

 

[newtrout]

I really like this idea, have a protest ride in the wilderness.

What exactly are you protesting? The wilderness has been here since '76.

Sweet plan. Any laws we don't like, lets just get a bunch of us together and go break them. That'll show 'em. Big help to our cause. Good thinking......

 

[ericbigbore]

What exactly are you protesting? The wilderness has been here since '76.

Sweet plan. Any laws we don't like, lets just get a bunch of us together and go break them. That'll show 'em. Big help to our cause. Good thinking......

M,L,K, civil disobedience. I go out of my way to stay out now, but if they take more land from us????

 

[newtrout]

M,L,K, civil disobedience. I go out of my way to stay out now, but if they take more land from us????

We all need to fight like hell to keep everything else open, I just can't really see how a mass wilderness incursion is going to help our cause.

Edit:

What are we really fighting for here in Washington? We have a ton of terrain open to us compared to other states. There's a big wide swath of rideable terrain from Gold Creek to the Columbia River. There are a few accessible drainages in the Alpine Lakes that we are asked to stay out of. There hasn't been a day this entire year when I haven't been able to find fresh tracks in legal terrain. What exactly is our argument here? Wild Sky sucks, but we didn't really lose motorized terrain. The North Cascades have a ton of closed terrain, but it was made a park in 1906.

Keeping our terrain open is a different story. We need to stick together and fight for it (and support groups like SAWS). I'm of the opinion that we would be better off doing it in a way that gives a positive impression to non-snowmobilers. Just my opinion, though.

 

[nwm8]

Is there any other boundaries for snowmobiles other than wilderness? Is there any other better maps of these off limits areas? The only map i could find was this. http://www.parks.wa.gov/winter/boundaries.asp
I haven't ridden wilderness land, but just reading this thread made me wonder. I usually ride stampede, and figured i could ride just about anything from stampede to e-burg, to 410. Is there anything besides private property that is off limits in this area? Sorry to get a off topic. Oh, i suppose horse peak wilderness is in the stampede area, can someone reach that from stampede?