Sledder's elbow?

[polemite.productions]

for the past few years, i've had some mild elbow pain creeping up on me... i've been able to stretch it out and ignore it, up till this season.

after a particularly exhaustive, deep day, i spent about a week after where i could hardly pick up a carton of milk. after that, it subsided into a nagging ache. the next time out riding, i was right back to the sharp pain, and i've been sore for almost a month now.

so i've developed tennis elbow. not sure if i can blame sledding as the main cause, as i also turn screwdrivers and wrenches at work, but sledding definitely aggravates it. gettin old and out of shape too. been talking to a few different riders about it, and it sounds like a few of them also get mild cases of it.

i'm thinking that since this is on the throttle side, grip ergonomics, throttle effort, and steering effort are all contributing factors. i'm also thinking that the slop in the vertical/adjustable steering post of my 2012 proclimb has to be working against me as well.

i have a list of mods in mind that i i think will ease the strain, but before i go into it, i'd like to hear if anyone else has dealt with the same issue, and what you may have done to your sled to improve or eliminate the contributing factors. thanks.

 

[tuneman]

I obviously have no idea what your riding style is, or your experience, but I would start by studying how you ride and if it can be improved. I've ridden with so many guys that constantly try to muscle the sled around. Are you 'standing proud' or hunching over a lot? When wrong foot forward, are you up on the sled, heel hanging out, or is your butt sticking out, hunched over? If you think your technique/throttle control is good, then I'd consider narrow a-arms to reduce the tendency to pull on the bars. If you've already got those, then you might just have to turn fewer screwdrivers.

 

[Teth-Air]

I ride Polaris and have same issue. The ski-doo G4 is much easier on the upper body but it comes with: It makes a bad rider better and a really good rider worse. Pick your poison.

 

[CO 2.0]

I get more elbow and shoulder pain every year. Go to Walgreens and buy a tennis elbow strap. Will help relieve pain by putting pressure on the tendons

 

[NorthMNSledder]

I get more elbow and shoulder pain every year. Go to Walgreens and buy a tennis elbow strap. Will help relieve pain by putting pressure on the tendons

This.....

I have used this trick for years with Tennis elbow issues.

 

[goridedoo]

No experience with much elbow pain, but I would make sure your bars are low to the point that your elbows are straight when your sidehilling. Don't understand guys who like their arms bent to dam near 90 degrees when riding. Hold a 25lb barbell at 90 degrees and then hold one down with your arm hanging straight down. Which is easier? Yeah, its not rocket science.

A finger throttle could potentially help as well? When you have one mounted pointing downward your whole arm/wrist stays straight rather than having your wrist bent to use the thumb throttle. Not sure if this would cause your elbow to hurt, but possibly?

Very last thing to do would be get a different sled. I think if I was having serious pain after a days riding I would get a G4, they are so easy ride (in powder, never been on one in hard pack I guess), it takes so little input to get the thing on its side, and you do 90% of the work with your feet. Steering effort is pretty much non existent. Rent one for a day maybe?


Of course before all that seeing an Orthopedic doctor might be of help too

 

[summ8rmk]

Listen to CO 2.0.
Get the strap for tennis elbow. Helped me. Took about a year to heal. Try to figure out how to use tools in a different manner to not aggravate the tendons throughout the day also.

Mountain Cat

 

[Coldfinger]

I have had tendon pain the last few months in both elbows.

Takes time to heal. Try to avoid doing anything that irritates it.

Try not to hang on as tight.

Push the bar rather than pulling as much as you can.

Season is about over so you can rest it more.

I've heard of some people who ice when irritated and take ibuprophen. I read another school of thought that says use heat to help improve circulation as tendons take longer to heal because there isn't much blood flow. Heat feels good to me and I do some light stretching but a doc told a coworker who has tendonitis in the elbow to not stretch or do anything to irritate it but I could have sworn that is what a physical therapist had me doing (stretches) 20 years ago when I had a case of it after a 4000 mile MC ride leaning on sport bike bars and it still took a few months to feel better.

 

[volcano buster]

I ended up with Golfer's elbow (inside of the elbow) in January. 3 day ride trip in early Feb and I only got in the first two days and have had to sit out since.

Hoping next winter is better.

 

[mightymoko]

99% sure this is what I got when I was having problems. https://www.tenniselbowtips.com/
The exercises really seemed to work. I did them for quite a while.
I have not had any problems for a few years.
I would send it to you but it is on a dead hard drive, at that time I
didn't get a disc just a download.
Good luck

 

[polemite.productions]

I obviously have no idea what your riding style is, or your experience, but I would start by studying how you ride and if it can be improved. I've ridden with so many guys that constantly try to muscle the sled around. Are you 'standing proud' or hunching over a lot? When wrong foot forward, are you up on the sled, heel hanging out, or is your butt sticking out, hunched over? If you think your technique/throttle control is good, then I'd consider narrow a-arms to reduce the tendency to pull on the bars. If you've already got those, then you might just have to turn fewer screwdrivers.

this is probably some of the best advice anyone can get. we as sledders almost always look to change our sleds to suit ourselves, rather than adapt ourselves to the sled or the riding conditions.
i've always thought that losing weight and maintaining good fitness is the best mod anyone can do for sledding. haha. However, life has got the best of me now. 2 kids and shift work limits my time for both fitness and riding.
all that said, i'm on a mostly stock 2012 sled, and there are definitely a few updates/improvements out there that can help ergonomics.

thanks for all the responses. i did get a forearm strap, and it's surprising how much it helps. i also have my massage therapist and chiropractor helping out, and i'm trying to do more with my left. i'm definitely recovering, but still get sore once in a while. got all summer to recover though.

so yes, a little background:
i'm on a 2012 cat snopro 800, 162. vertical, adjustable steering post, always in the lowest position. oem 40" a-arms.

i live and ride in the west kootenays, which means mostly steep tree riding. i'm almost always on edge, and often in critical situations, to avoid creeks, rocks, trees, etc. uphill, downhill, sidehill, you name it. lots of throttle action. i often don't get much time to read the terrain, as we don't often get good visibility. much more technical riding compared to my days around the shuswap, or the trip i just took to trout lake, which felt like a nice break, in comparison. when i do find untouched snow, a wide open run, and good visibility, the sled is almost effortless to ride. foot input and a little countersteer is all it needs. but chopped up snow, and/or a few surprises that require a quick reaction, and i'm pulling on the bars to make it work.

my opinions of the most obvious shortfalls of the 2012 cat specifically:

-super sloppy steering. even with an aftermarket antislop bushing in there. constant shock to the arms can be a contributing factor to tennis elbow.
- bar position is too far back. feels like the bars are always right at my crotch. a couple inches forward would feel like way better arm alignment.
-bulky, stiff throttle lever. i'm often between 1/4-3/4 throttle most of the time, so i never get a good solid grip on the right. i remember taking a ride on a couple of polaris pros a few years back, and right away noticed how nice the throttle lever felt. (and the seat. love the pro seats.)


so here's what i'm thinking...

-laydown steering, with post forward block. i recently rode an xm for a day, and didn't hate the feel of non-vertical steering. slop and arm alignment taken care of with 1 mod. lose a couple lbs too, that's gotta help.

-munster finger throttle?? maybe keeping the thumb wrapped around the bars is a better option? never tried it. but i'd like to hear from guys that have... does the lever land on top of the thumb/middle finger when pulled?

-oil injection delete? i remember polaris saying "20% reduction in throttle effort", when they switched to the electric oil pump. would this be true for the cat if you did away with the oil pump linkage?

going even further:
-36" a-arms with the 2016+ spindle. i hear nothing but good things about the new front end. but then there's the shock length to deal with...

-tube frame running boards. getting higher (more leverage), and stiffer (more responsive) has to help reduce the bar effort, right?

-what about the handlebars themselves? is there a bend profile that is better for wrist alignment? does diameter play a role?

-am i missing anything?



AND NOW this begs another question: is it even worth doing all of this to a 2012? or is it more cost effective to sell this sled and put the extra money into a newer, perhaps even a different brand of machine? the struggle...

 

[CO 2.0]

I would not throw any money into a 2012. part of the problem is that sled is a nose plow machine and takes a lot to maneuver it. It puts more strain on your body. Id try to pick up a 16. Or even a 14 and put a 16 front end on it.

 

[summ8rmk]

T-3 sleds feel like they have power steering. Don't care for the handling but can't deny how easy it is to steer. I assume the G4 is very similar?
Once my elbow healed(~1yr), i haven't had a serious recurrence.
Honestly, i myself wouldn't dump $$$$ into a 12, get the newest machine u can for the amount u want to spend but that is just my opinion.

Mountain Cat

 

[FatDogX]

Sounds like you have lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow).

A lot of good advice here but you can throw a bunch of $$$ and updates at your sled and it really doesn't do much in the end. I have had this issue in the past as well and it really comes down to taking the time to let it heal for starters and do not re-aggravate the area that is in pain. You can have the best sled or equipment and this can happen!!!

So to start with, at first signs of pain, use ice!!!! Also use an anti inflammatory. Then after a few days to a week or so of letting it rest, switch to heat and start doing stretches to that area. The key to eliminate this issue to get those muscles back into shape and stretched out. What is happening, is that the muscles are getting so tight and fatigued they are getting small micro tears, which is what is causing the pain. In order to stop this, one needs to get this muscle back into shape!

Now a lot of guys say, it's my elbow.....how the hell do I stretch this out???? There are several stretches for this and they can be found on line or on youtube.

One of the best and easiest stretches a guy a can do is a massaging thumb pressure stretch. This may be difficult to explain but it is an easy exercise that you can do while sitting or standing anywhere and anytime.

Find the affected area with your thumb, then move down slightly in the direction of your wrist and stop. Now start pushing into the muscle with your thumb, while you flex your wrist up and make your forearm muscles flex. Keep moving the thumb around into different places and press into the muscle while you flex the muscle by flexing the wrist up and down. Keep moving the thumb around pushing pretty hard and massaging while you flex (different ways with your wrist creating the pulling effect) and then relax that muscle and re-stretch. Every time you flex, while pushing in with your thumb you are stretching the area and in a sense getting it back into shape. This exercise as worked very well for other people I know but there are other excises and stretches out there too.

This can be done, sitting in the car, lazy boy, in bed or at the desk, just remember to keep working it. It takes a while and will not happen over night but stretching and getting that muscle back into shape is the key to leaving this injury behind!!!

Once its feeling better, don't forget to keep doing this from time to time and .......always stretch before, during and after your done riding!!! That is key and a lot of guys forget or just don't do it.

Hope this helps and I hope you can shake it!!!

Good luck!!!

 

[goridedoo]

this is probably some of the best advice anyone can get. we as sledders almost always look to change our sleds to suit ourselves, rather than adapt ourselves to the sled or the riding conditions.
i've always thought that losing weight and maintaining good fitness is the best mod anyone can do for sledding. haha. However, life has got the best of me now. 2 kids and shift work limits my time for both fitness and riding.
all that said, i'm on a mostly stock 2012 sled, and there are definitely a few updates/improvements out there that can help ergonomics.

thanks for all the responses. i did get a forearm strap, and it's surprising how much it helps. i also have my massage therapist and chiropractor helping out, and i'm trying to do more with my left. i'm definitely recovering, but still get sore once in a while. got all summer to recover though.

so yes, a little background:
i'm on a 2012 cat snopro 800, 162. vertical, adjustable steering post, always in the lowest position. oem 40" a-arms.

i live and ride in the west kootenays, which means mostly steep tree riding. i'm almost always on edge, and often in critical situations, to avoid creeks, rocks, trees, etc. uphill, downhill, sidehill, you name it. lots of throttle action. i often don't get much time to read the terrain, as we don't often get good visibility. much more technical riding compared to my days around the shuswap, or the trip i just took to trout lake, which felt like a nice break, in comparison. when i do find untouched snow, a wide open run, and good visibility, the sled is almost effortless to ride. foot input and a little countersteer is all it needs. but chopped up snow, and/or a few surprises that require a quick reaction, and i'm pulling on the bars to make it work.

my opinions of the most obvious shortfalls of the 2012 cat specifically:

-super sloppy steering. even with an aftermarket antislop bushing in there. constant shock to the arms can be a contributing factor to tennis elbow.
- bar position is too far back. feels like the bars are always right at my crotch. a couple inches forward would feel like way better arm alignment.
-bulky, stiff throttle lever. i'm often between 1/4-3/4 throttle most of the time, so i never get a good solid grip on the right. i remember taking a ride on a couple of polaris pros a few years back, and right away noticed how nice the throttle lever felt. (and the seat. love the pro seats.)


so here's what i'm thinking...

-laydown steering, with post forward block. i recently rode an xm for a day, and didn't hate the feel of non-vertical steering. slop and arm alignment taken care of with 1 mod. lose a couple lbs too, that's gotta help.

-munster finger throttle?? maybe keeping the thumb wrapped around the bars is a better option? never tried it. but i'd like to hear from guys that have... does the lever land on top of the thumb/middle finger when pulled?

-oil injection delete? i remember polaris saying "20% reduction in throttle effort", when they switched to the electric oil pump. would this be true for the cat if you did away with the oil pump linkage?

going even further:
-36" a-arms with the 2016+ spindle. i hear nothing but good things about the new front end. but then there's the shock length to deal with...

-tube frame running boards. getting higher (more leverage), and stiffer (more responsive) has to help reduce the bar effort, right?

-what about the handlebars themselves? is there a bend profile that is better for wrist alignment? does diameter play a role?

-am i missing anything?



AND NOW this begs another question: is it even worth doing all of this to a 2012? or is it more cost effective to sell this sled and put the extra money into a newer, perhaps even a different brand of machine? the struggle...

Finger throttle is about as far as I would go with the mods before upgrading (but who knows maybe it will do nothing for you?). Some people are anti finger throttle and will tell you its stupid, I ran one, didnt see the issue. Get a tether, which you should have anyway and munster makes a guard for peace of mind.

I never noticed the thumb being in the way of the lever but it occasionally would get bound up in my middle finger when wearing thicker gloves, zero issue with thin pairs. After a while I figured out how to position my hand and it was no longer a problem.

Like SummitRMK said the doos really do feel like they have power steering, so I would strongly consider one if you were to upgrade. The cats with the new front ends handle much nicer as well.

 

[Blk88GT]

I'd move up to a newer sled if I was you. JMHO.

 

[tuneman]

A newer sled is certainly a good recommendation, if you can afford it. But a new G4 is not the only answer. From personal experience, the Doos are easy to handle because of the 36" wide a-arms. I've not ridden a new Cat, but I'd bet you'd get an even easier handling sled than a G4 if you put 36" a-arms on a new Cat. I've ridden a Doo back to back with my 36" wide Pro and my pro was definitely easier to steer/control. The lower secondary and rigid skid probably helped too, but my point is that if you're partial to Arctic Cat ergonomics, then there's no reason why you can't go green.

 

[summ8rmk]

Cat is 36", has been since 2016

Mountain Cat

 

[polemite.productions]

thanks for the recovery advice guys. it's comforting to know that it WILL eventually go away.

also thanks for steering (pun intended) me away from modding this sled. i've been on the fence about it for other reasons too- mainly the track length. there are times that i love the 162, but i sure do miss hitting little jumps. the long track just wants to plow right through them, rather than follow the transition. that, along with a powder coated tunnel would be worth it alone. the 12's sure do hold the ice.

i might still have to address the boards and handlebar ergonomics, depending on what i find, but i guess it's only money.

 

[FatDogX]

thanks for the recovery advice guys. it's comforting to know that it WILL eventually go away.

also thanks for steering (pun intended) me away from modding this sled. i've been on the fence about it for other reasons too- mainly the track length. there are times that i love the 162, but i sure do miss hitting little jumps. the long track just wants to plow right through them, rather than follow the transition. that, along with a powder coated tunnel would be worth it alone. the 12's sure do hold the ice.

i might still have to address the boards and handlebar ergonomics, depending on what i find, but i guess it's only money.

If you want to update your sled or make modifications then do it, but don't simply update or make a bunch of mods to your sled because of this current issue you have. A new sled and or mods will not miraculously cure your tendinitis.......I wish this was the case!!! ha ha. You have to let it heal, do some rehab and things will fall back into place as long as you keep up with some maintenance. Biggest thing is staying consistent with the rehab / stretches, and it will work out.