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SKI DOO OIL TANK CAP... A $14.99 alternative

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LoudHandle

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LoudHandle's Unbiased findings on the stock Polaris Oil Cap

First I'll tell you my test parameter's; Tank / guard assembly removed from sled, Oil reservoir neck sleeve installed, leveled right to left, blocked up to the same incline as it is on the sled. I did it in the kitchen with the blocking on the microwave for a comfortable working height and good lighting. For measurement purposes I used my Ratio-Rite. Ambient temp was 65 degrees F. I did a minimum of 4 repeatable runs, at 45 seconds each (using the timer on the microwave), noting the flow for each time period, but only pulling the cap and recycling after the fourth run. I confirmed that the individual runs and the average of the 4 runs were within a few ml (Ratio-Rite reads in CC's but they are the same thing) of each other. My test oil was Legend ZX2SR. Tank filled to the bottom of the fill neck and recycled after four flow test runs.

I started with the no cap flow test and my repeatable average was 140 ml, over the eight runs.

I then ran all 3 of my Geo Goretex style modified caps they all averaged 117 ml, over the 4 runs each.

I then inverted the whole thing to check permeation thru the three 0.020" holes, break thru and first drop of oil took 3 1/2 minutes.

I then again verified flow with the Cap cavity saturated with the trapped oil, somewhat surprisingly it flowed 125 ml, over the four runs.

I then melted one hole shut and repeated the flow test on that cap now with two holes, it still flowed 115 ml, over the four runs.

Melted an additional hole shut for a one hole test, flowed 103 ml, over the four runs.

I then melted the final hole shut (simulated stock cap) and confirmed TRS findings and subsequent subtlety's that were posted in subsequent posts.

The stock cap flowed well for the first 20 seconds, in the last 25 seconds I observed a series of 10 drips.
The first run only delivering 25 ml over the entire 45 second span.
The second run only delivered another ten drips. The third, 4 drips; and the fourth run, 3 drips.
To confirm the observation and confirm repeatability; I ran the four runs again and it was indeed repeated.

I then ran it again; but shook it like a can of spray paint between the second and third run. It flowed nearly 50 ml on each of the third and fourth runs. As the sled will not handle being shaken like a rattle can continuously.

I refilled the tank and set it up again. I ran the first run and got the normal 25 ml and flow stopping after 20 seconds, ran the second run and got the ten drips. I then knocked it off the blocks (a 2" drop to a hard surface of the microwave). Which is still harder than a properly tuned suspension would allow. Possibly one with blown shocks, and bottoming hard. This is where I found this most interesting.On the two following runs it flowed 100 ml, each. I reset the tank and ran another run and all four runs it flowed 100 ml, each.

So in conclusion; the stock cap can stick both open and closed.
Open would be a good thing; other than the rare occasion when you end up inverted for a length of time.

If it should stick closed; you are only getting about 20 seconds worth of oil and then starving the pump. Do you want to ride a sled and make sure you take a hard hit every 20 seconds? To ensure there is an oil supply to the injection pump?

You all can make up your own mind on the stock cap, and how to fix it. If you are not convinced yet that there is an issue; I encourage you to conduct your own little test. I was skeptical a year ago much like Oregon sledder and voiced my disbelief like he is. I now have the proof I needed to form my opinion.

I know, I value my riding partners and I's, riding days too much to leave my fate to whether the stock cap decides to function properly. To me any of the alternatives is far cheaper than the humiliation of F'n up a riding day with my peers. I will be at a minimum drilling one 0.020" hole in my caps and if that is still too messy, I will likely go for the clean and cheap BRP cap.
 
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Oregonsledder

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Jan 27, 2009
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First I'll tell you my test parameter's; Tank / guard assembly removed from sled, leveled right to left, blocked up to the same incline as it is on the sled. I did it in the kitchen with the blocking on the microwave for a comfortable working height and good lighting. For measurement purposes I used my Ratio-Rite. Ambient temp was 65 degrees F. I did a minimum of 4 repeatable runs, at 45 seconds each (using the timer on the microwave), noting the flow for each time period, but only pulling the cap and recycling after the fourth run. I confirmed that the individual runs and the average of the 4 runs were within a few ml (Ratio-Rite reads in CC's but they are the same thing) of each other. My test oil was Legend ZX2SR. Tank filled to the bottom of the fill neck and recycled after four flow test runs.

I started with the no cap flow test and my repeatable average was 140 ml, over the eight runs.

I then ran all 3 of my Geo Goretex style modified caps they all averaged 117 ml, over the 4 runs each.

I then inverted the whole thing to check permeation thru the three 0.020" holes, break thru and first drop of oil took 3 1/2 minutes.

I then again verified flow with the Cap cavity saturated with the trapped oil, somewhat surprisingly it flowed 125 ml, over the four runs.

I then melted one hole shut and repeated the flow test on that cap now with two holes, it still flowed 115 ml, over the four runs.

Melted an additional hole shut for a one hole test, flowed 103 ml, over the four runs.

I then melted the final hole shut (simulated stock cap) and confirmed TRS findings and subsequent subtlety's that were posted in subsequent posts.

The stock cap flowed well for the first 20 seconds, in the last 25 seconds I observed a series of 10 drips.
The first run only delivering 25 ml over the entire 45 second span.
The second run only delivered another ten drips. The third, 4 drips; and the fourth run, 3 drips.
To confirm the observation and confirm repeatability; I ran the four runs again and it was indeed repeated.

I then ran it again; but shook it like a can of spray paint between the second and third run. It flowed nearly 50 ml on each of the third and fourth runs. As the sled will not handle being shaken like a rattle can continuously.

I refilled the tank and set it up again. I ran the first run and got the normal 25 ml and flow stopping after 20 seconds, ran the second run and got the ten drips. I then knocked it off the blocks (a 2" drop to a hard surface of the microwave). Which is still harder than a properly tuned suspension would allow. Possibly one with blown shocks, and bottoming hard. This is where I found this most interesting.On the two following runs it flowed 100 ml, each. I reset the tank and ran another run and all four runs it flowed 100 ml, each.

So in conclusion; the stock cap can stick both open and closed.
Open would be a good thing; other than the rare occasion when you end up inverted for a length of time.

If it should stick closed; you are only getting about 20 seconds worth of oil and then starving the pump. Do you want to ride a sled and make sure you take a hard hit every 20 seconds? To ensure there is an oil supply to the injection pump?

You all can make up your own mind on the stock cap, and how to fix it. If you are not convinced yet that there is an issue; I encourage you to conduct your own little test. I was skeptical a year ago much like Oregon sledder and voiced my disbelief like he is. I now have the proof I needed to form my opinion.

I know, I value my riding partners and I's, riding days too much to leave my fate to whether the stock cap decides to function properly. To me any of the alternatives is far cheaper than the humiliation of F'n up a riding day with my peers. I will be at a minimum drilling one 0.020" hole in my caps and if that is still too messy, I will likely go for the clean and cheap BRP cap.

This is good info, but still not what I'm waiting to see. As I said before I ran a redundant tank vent with check valve. I have about 2K on my sled so I know how much oil it burns on a typical ride. If after I get it on the snow I see any noticeable increase in oil consumption then I will agree the cap has a problem. All other kitchen or bench tests are not a true representation of what occurs on the sled in the real world.
 
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rmscustom

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Jun 8, 2010
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This is good info, but still not what I'm waiting to see. As I said before I ran a redundant tank vent with check valve. I have about 2K on my sled so I know how much oil it burns on a typical ride. If after I get it on the snow I see any noticeable increase in oil consumption then I will agree the cap has a problem. All other kitchen or bench tests are not a true representation of what occurs on the sled in the real world.


Lets say the stock cap starves the engine for oil for 30-60 seconds once or twice a ride. You would never see a difference in the consumption amount.
 
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rmscustom

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Jun 8, 2010
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Great test LH... I wonder what the girlfriend would say if she caught me in the kitchen with my oil tank off doing flow tests and using the microwave for blocking. lol
 
O

Oregonsledder

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Lets say the stock cap starves the engine for oil for 30-60 seconds once or twice a ride. You would never see a difference in the consumption amount.

In that case there is no issue. If that is all that happens I'm good with the Polaris cap. If there is a problem I expect to see a noticeable increase in oil consumption over the course of a typical day.We will see.
 

Merlin

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This is good info, but still not what I'm waiting to see. As I said before I ran a redundant tank vent with check valve. I have about 2K on my sled so I know how much oil it burns on a typical ride. If after I get it on the snow I see any noticeable increase in oil consumption then I will agree the cap has a problem. All other kitchen or bench tests are not a true representation of what occurs on the sled in the real world.

So OS,

Is it going to take someone who runs a data logger with a pressure sensor in the oil tank to confirm the presence of a vacuum state while riding or possibly some type of minute flow-meter installed in the injection lines?

Serious question.
 

Snowmow

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He won't be happy until that test is done on a sled while in motion. The stock caps design requires movement to be operational so a test while sitting still isn't a "real world scenario" test.
 

Snowmow

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$14.99 alternative

I just don't like the idea of a cap that doesn't vent consistently... Weather the sled actually sees a benefit or not Hence why I have a BRP cap on my sled now.
 
O

Oregonsledder

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Merlin no. If you have been following these threads over the months like I have, you have heard claims that when a vent was added oil consumption doubled and many had to turn down their oil pumps. There were many claims like that. If there is an significant restriction in venting I expect to see an increase in oil consumption. Maybe not double, but measurable. No increase in oil consumption, no problem in my mind.

The second issue that this thread addresses is... Is there a better cheaper solution? Maybe, but I want to confirm there first is a problem or the second issue is mute.
 

Merlin

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Merlin no. If you have been following these threads over the months like I have, you have heard claims that when a vent was added oil consumption doubled and many had to turn down their oil pumps. There were many claims like that. If there is an significant restriction in venting I expect to see an increase in oil consumption. Maybe not double, but measurable. No increase in oil consumption, no problem in my mind.

The second issue that this thread addresses is... Is there a better cheaper solution? Maybe, but I want to confirm there first is a problem or the second issue is mute.

Ok,

You've undoubtedly read my multiple posts where I've stated numerous times that despite having my oil pump set to near max. delivery(2 - 3 threads showing above the locknut, I'm only seeing 50 : 1. FYI, I religiously documented the total fuel & oil consumed over multiple days of riding in different conditions & that number represents the average.

I've since done the "Geo cap mod" but have no riding time or empirical data to confirm it's effect on oil consumption.

So, if I post back with my oil consumption later on this season, will that do?
 
O

Oregonsledder

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Ok,

You've undoubtedly read my multiple posts where I've stated numerous times that despite having my oil pump set to near max. delivery(2 - 3 threads showing above the locknut, I'm only seeing 50 : 1. FYI, I religiously documented the total fuel & oil consumed over multiple days of riding in different conditions & that number represents the average.

I've since done the "Geo cap mod" but have no riding time or empirical data to confirm it's effect on oil consumption.

So, if I post back with my oil consumption later on this season, will that do?

Yes, I would expect similar results with my tank vent (what ever that turns out to be). It seems many, maybe you as well, already have your minds made up, I don't. I'm anxious to get enough snow so I can document a typical ride. I don't know what to expect, but my mind is open. Many here just want to be right!
 

Merlin

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Yes, I would expect similar results with my tank vent (what ever that turns out to be). It seems many, maybe you as well, already have your minds made up, I don't. I'm anxious to get enough snow so I can document a typical ride. I don't know what to expect, but my mind is open. Many here just want to be right!

My mind isn't made up but I'll admit that I'm not being 100% objective & perhaps a wee bit hopeful based on others findings.

That said, I can guarantee that whatever my findings are I'll post them "as is" whether they are good, bad, or ugly.

Now the goal is to get out on the snow to gather some empirical data & have some fun in the process! :beer;
 
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geo

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Some detailed stuff here. 5 pages and growing. Must not be snowin' too much yet because people were checking at "room temps" lol.
For some of us it just seems like a no-brainer that an inconsistent vent to any tank seems wrong. So, we have vented lol. I won`t trust suction (if there is much) from the oil pump. I just want to make sure there is more than enough supply for the poor little archaic thing.
But, there is no "proof" for some and there may be no need for others.

How much oil you use in relation to gas consumed while riding is what is all about. IMO you start high with oil consumption and work your way down to a ratio that you want. It just seems a safer way for me.
I shoot for 32 to 1 but want 20 to 1 for break in. To each his own there. I checked my oil consumption to fuel ratio by marking present oil level then filling to a line on the oil tank with a graduated cylinder and topping the tank with a bigger graduated cylinder to a measured distance from the top of the tank (keep my favourite fuel at home in jugs so I don't need to go to town every ride lol) at the end of every ride in the beginning. Did the math. Got my numbers (ratio) confirmed and stabilized and from then on just "observed" consumption of oil.
I had no problem getting to 20 to 1 use on my Pro but I vented my cap right at the beginning because of lessons learned in the past. It wiil be interesting to find out what the "lectric" pump will put out for break-in on the Axys next season.

The blurb above is for OS. I would like to know accurate in field numbers too. You have offered, when the snow shows up, to check and report. How have you checked your use over the last 2000 miles? What is your present ratio? What ratio will you be happy with? What oil do you use?
Just need a base line to go on before you hit the snow. I know my calculator shows a different ratio with 50cc missing on one side of the equation.

"Room temp". Since there is another thread at this time about oil viscosity, does 17ml at room temp mean less at 0 degrees. Does the drip part start any earlier when cold. Why should it need to start to drip anyway? That`s the "no-brainer" part to me anyway.
Other questions about oil consumption and viscosity. Does a oil pump flow less oil with higher viscosity oil? Does an oil pump move more oil at higher rpm? Does an oil pump move more oil the more the lever is opened? Does trail riding a full tank of fuel use less oil than a full tank after a day of chest deep (let's all hope for some lol). Can clutching effect oil consumption for an individual? Can the present oil pump keep up to the instant needs of the motor if the crankcase is close to dry? Does a heavier viscosity oil "hang around" in the bottom end longer than a lighter viscosity?

You have a lot of things to check and define OS to make an absolute answer (which is what you want) to this question of " does the oil cap restrict flow". It's not as simple to me as your comparison of vent or no vent for you cause I have these other questions too lol.

I use Yamalube. Fairly heavy viscosity compared to "modern stuff". I know it's not going to hydraulically lock my bearings but more importantly I have my comfortable ratio of "a bit too much at all times" and venting set using this oil from actual in field use.

Like I said before it's all about oil ratio and if you really don't know what you use you should. Just for you because others may be different for many reasons.
 
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Oregonsledder

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Jan 27, 2009
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Some detailed stuff here. 5 pages and growing. Must not be snowin' too much yet because people were checking at "room temps" lol.
For some of us it just seems like a no-brainer that an inconsistent vent to any tank seems wrong. So, we have vented lol. I won`t trust suction (if there is much) from the oil pump. I just want to make sure there is more than enough supply for the poor little archaic thing.
But, there is no "proof" for some and there may be no need for others.

How much oil you use in relation to gas consumed while riding is what is all about. IMO you start high with oil consumption and work your way down to a ratio that you want. It just seems a safer way for me.
I shoot for 32 to 1 but want 20 to 1 for break in. To each his own there. I checked my oil consumption to fuel ratio by marking present oil level then filling to a line on the oil tank with a graduated cylinder and topping the tank with a bigger graduated cylinder to a measured distance from the top of the tank (keep my favourite fuel at home in jugs so I don't need to go to town every ride lol) at the end of every ride in the beginning. Did the math. Got my numbers (ratio) confirmed and stabilized and from then on just "observed" consumption of oil.
I had no problem getting to 20 to 1 use on my Pro but I vented my cap right at the beginning because of lessons learned in the past. It wiil be interesting to find out what the "lectric" pump will put out for break-in on the Axys next season.

The blurb above is for OS. I would like to know accurate in field numbers too. You have offered, when the snow shows up, to check and report. How have you checked your use over the last 2000 miles? What is your present ratio? What ratio will you be happy with? What oil do you use?
Just need a base line to go on before you hit the snow. I know my calculator shows a different ratio with 50cc missing on one side of the equation.

"Room temp". Since there is another thread at this time about oil viscosity, does 17ml at room temp mean less at 0 degrees. Does the drip part start any earlier when cold. Why should it need to start to drip anyway? That`s the "no-brainer" part to me anyway.
Other questions about oil consumption and viscosity. Does a oil pump flow less oil with higher viscosity oil? Does an oil pump move more oil at higher rpm? Does an oil pump move more oil the more the lever is opened? Does trail riding a full tank of fuel use less oil than a full tank after a day of chest deep (let's all hope for some lol). Can clutching effect oil consumption for an individual? Can the present oil pump keep up to the instant needs of the motor if the crankcase is close to dry? Does a heavier viscosity oil "hang around" in the bottom end longer than a lighter viscosity?

You have a lot of things to check and define OS to make an absolute answer (which is what you want) to this question of " does the oil cap restrict flow". It's not as simple to me as your comparison of vent or no vent for you cause I have these other questions too lol.

I use Yamalube. Fairly heavy viscosity compared to "modern stuff". I know it's not going to hydraulically lock my bearings but more importantly I have my comfortable ratio of "a bit too much at all times" and venting set using this oil from actual in field use.

Like I said before it's all about oil ratio and if you really don't know what you use you should. Just for you because others may be different for many reasons.

When my sled was new I turned up the pump 3 turns. It turns out that over a 10 ride average where I carefully measured gas and oil, I averaged (and still do) 40:1. I also add 1 ounce of VES Gold to the tank per gallon of gas. I use Polaris VES Gold.
I agree there are many variables to engine oiling. I'm satisfied with 40:1 and will closely monitor my ratio (post tank vent) like I have for several years when I get on the snow. I don't expect a change, but will look for one none the less.
It is very clear most on this thread want this to be an issue, so they will feel like that have improved something.
 
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rmscustom

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When my sled was new I turned up the pump 3 turns. It turns out that over a 10 ride average where I carefully measured gas and oil, I averaged (and still do) 40:1. I also add 1 ounce of VES Gold to the tank per gallon of gas. I use Polaris VES Gold.
I agree there are many variables to engine oiling. I'm satisfied with 40:1 and will closely monitor my ratio (post tank vent) like I have for several years when I get on the snow. I don't expect a change, but will look for one none the less.
It is very clear most on this thread want this to be an issue, so they will feel like that have improved something.


Turned mine up 3 turns when new and was 24:1. Backed it off a turn and run about 35:1 with a stock cap (all using legend oil). Did the Geo mod hole drill thing late last year and didn't get enough time to see if it made a difference. Happy with the oil consumption with the stock cap but unlike OS a 60 second possible oil starvation makes me nervous.
Bought a couple doo caps ($30 lol) because I could get a dribble of oil out of my stock geo mod cap (bigger hole) with the sled on its side and the doo cap looks like a no brainer to me.
 

Dartos

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Is there a reason why we couldn't simply plumb in a vacuum gauge and watch it while riding? Wouldn't that tell us if/when the cap is not venting?
 

LoudHandle

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Is there a reason why we couldn't simply plumb in a vacuum gauge and watch it while riding? Wouldn't that tell us if/when the cap is not venting?

That is an option as well, Whether plumbed to the upper air space or Tee'd into the outlet of the tank. If plumbed to the bottom, a pressure / vacuum gauge would be preferable, As the tank only holds at most 6" of oil, the maximum head pressure is about 0.2 PSI or 6 inches of water column.
Finding a gauge that will read that small of a swing and not be thrown off by the vibration and give you errant data could be a challenge without spending far more than the proposed ways to correct the issue (or non-issue for those still doubting the possibilty).

If you are going to add a penetration to the top for your vacuum gauge. Collect your data and then you will already have a port for installing your vent line!
 
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polster

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Sep 5, 2010
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Helena Mt
I did a 45 second "static" drain test today with the oil tank mounted in the sled. All components and oil were at shop temp, 60F. Tank was filled with oil to the bottom of the neck. Here are the results and pictures. I don't know if it has any relevancy but thought I would pass it along.


No cap 105ml
PAASO 100ml
BRP 60ml
Polaris 17ml

First my thanks to TRS for this thought provoking post. Regarding 2 stroke motors, the one thing that everyone can agree on is that EPA regulations were not designed for engine longevity. Oil usage has been reduced on Poo and Doo, Cat not as much, until the release of their new 600. Doo and Cat used DI to achieve the reduction, to simplify Poo dropped 2 fuel/oil injectors [CFI4 Vs CFI2].
Many people have reported an increase in oil consumption simply by venting the tank [Geo mod, aftermarket caps, direct venting] all these mods came about as a way to increase oiling to the motor and to eliminate a perceived oil starvation problem.
I have no doubt that the current stock Poo sled is precisely oiled and will give good service life as delivered and meet EPA requirements in the ideal riding scenario. That being said there is no room for error with a cap that has enough restriction to pull a vacuum, anyone who has owned a Pro or been around them has heard the vacuum being broken when opening the cap.
My previous 2012 600 Pro, when new, had an urgent recall done to remove a potential air bubble from the oil feed line, I watched the procedure, the first thing the tech did was to remove the oil tank cap before holding the pump open to burp the system.
I have read several instances of turning the sled on its side to service it, or removing the oil tank and introducing a fatal air bubble into the oil injection system, this then in turn starves the engine. Had the tank been vented the pump would have been able to burp itself and the bubble would have been of no consequence.
I subscribe to the thought that fairly lean ratio [50-1] is possible and still have a measure of durability. With the electronic oil injection on the horizon, this simple mod seems like a brilliant way to quietly overcome the handcuffs placed on Polaris's existing technology.
 
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hoov165x

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Apr 12, 2009
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Bend, OR
Merlin no. If you have been following these threads over the months like I have, you have heard claims that when a vent was added oil consumption doubled and many had to turn down their oil pumps. There were many claims like that. If there is an significant restriction in venting I expect to see an increase in oil consumption. Maybe not double, but measurable. No increase in oil consumption, no problem in my mind.

The second issue that this thread addresses is... Is there a better cheaper solution? Maybe, but I want to confirm there first is a problem or the second issue is mute.

That is 'moot'.
 
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