Silber Turbos Water/Meth Upcoming Products.

[Silber]

Let letting everyone know we are finishing up the final stages of our water/meth injection kits. We are going to offer this kit for our polaris raw chassis turbo kits. This kit will also work on any snowmobile. Just have to make your own mounts for the fuild tank. Water/meth is proportionally injecting according to boost pressure, with full adjustment of what psi to start the injection and psi for max injection. Here are some of the benefits of a water/meth kit for a turbcharged application:
Low cost, water/meth is cheaper than running race gas.
More Power, running water/meth lowers your charge temp, prevents detonation.
Clean, running water/meth is like steam cleaning your engine, you have very little carbon build up with this.
More effecient, your able to run leaner air fuel ratios, and advance the timing to create more power. And the ability to run more boost.
When Running water/meth with 91 pump fuel its comparable to running 110+ octane fuel. Depending on mixture ratio you can gain up to 25 points of octane.
Avalibity, methanol can be bought from most gas stations. Windshield washer fluid contains 30%. Also gas line anitfreeze.

The polaris kits can be fitted to any polaris raw chassis, with plug and play connections and a fitted fuild tank for this chassis.

Users can easily adapt this kit to any snowmobile.

Kits come with two nozzles to tune for your desired boost levels.

For more information, please pm, or email me at Justin_silber@hotmail.com
www.silberturbos.com

 

[triple7]

Sounds pretty good. So you can proportion the water meth (or im assuming straight meth) into the motor according to boost levels?? and in addition to regular fuel, but what happens when you run out of methanol?? Does the system have any fail safe or would you go lean??

I have been trying to figure a way to make a system like this work on a carb turbo sled, but I am having a little trouble figuring out a system that would allow methanol to be added at a certain boost level and keep a consistent fuel curve...

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Sounds pretty good. So you can proportion the water meth (or im assuming straight meth) into the motor according to boost levels?? and in addition to regular fuel, but what happens when you run out of methanol?? Does the system have any fail safe or would you go lean??

I have been trying to figure a way to make a system like this work on a carb turbo sled, but I am having a little trouble figuring out a system that would allow methanol to be added at a certain boost level and keep a consistent fuel curve...

triple.... check out the progressive boxes they sell, i imagine thats what hes going to be using... the ones i have seen also can have warning lights in the meth tank, but a decent size tank will last you a while, 1 gal will keep you going most of the day depending on the terrain and how much your running. also seen some setups that run them into the wastegate so as soon as it runs low it auto cuts out your MBC and your back to wastegate level boost. lots to look into! as far as it being carbed, i dont really see any issues with that vs fuel injection. they just sense pressure and spray accordingly, nothing to do with the other stuff.

it has a boost pressure sensor. and you select start boost, peak boost and rate of ramp. from what i hear there REALLY easy to tune on the 4 strokes, when i asked people seemed to have lots negative to say about 2 strokes about it scrubbing the oil of crank bearings... who knows, i want to see how long it lasts... should be fine, but you never know.

also, no straight meth, VERY flamable, most pumps will rot the seals on it. and the water has a huge cooling/ anti det affect, straight meth is really a wash in this case, it will make more power if tuned right, but is much more complex to do.

also, -20 and lower blue washer fluid is like 40% meth and then just water and dye.... and its less then $2 a gallon everywhere i have ever seen it. thats soem CHEAP HP!

some good reading on here.... http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/

variable controler

 

[triple7]

Thats good info Skidoo'in. I was trying to figure a way to use a pressure switch to activate the methanol and do it all without using any electronic boxes, but this would work well.

The reason I would be interested in straight meth is the fact that it evaporates far quicker than water and therefore it has a much greater refrigerant ability. The quicker you can get charge tube temps way down, the better and more consistant horsepower can be built. Also, you can use less meth than water/meth to achieve the same level of refrigeration and that will cause less of the dreaded crank wash that is much talked about on meth injected two strokes. I dont know how much of it I believe, it seems that I would just add a little oil to the meth and problem would be solved but who knows.

The biggest problem with adding the meth via electronic box or mechanical injection to a carb turbo two stroke is the fact that once the powerjet is set, you are basically on a straight fuel curve referenced to boost. The issue with just all of a sudden adding methanol is that even if you start with a small amount and add on a percentage rate, it will make hitting a consistent a/f ratio throughout the rpm and boost range difficult because you dont want to add meth on a straight curve from 0 lbs to peak. And, if you start adding a very big percentage of meth, you will need to set your base fuel leaner, thus leaving the possibility open of not getting meth to the motor and having a lean burndown. I am on board with the idea of 1 gallon lasting quite awhile EXCEPT that if you are running large boost (say 15 lbs on a two stroke) and pulling gnarly hills, it seems to me that at 25 percent addition of meth, a gallon would be gone rather quickly, at which point you are now basically getting 75 percent of required fuel at WOT and full boost. I guess you could rig an electronic boost controller to it and remove according boost but what a pain. All things to work through I supose

Good info with the above mentioned box...I think I can make that work with the right buttons pushed...

 

[mtn mike on boost]

i was looking into building a water meth inj. set up last year for my turbo, but concerns about creating issues w/ case lubrication sidelined me. hope this works, ill sure be interested...mm

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

does this work on a 2 smoke? what about the whole water / gas, oil thing?

 

[Silber]

Yes we have been testing them on our polaris dragons turbos. They have beens using this similiar design in the aviation world for a long time. There are oils that contain polypropylene glycol, which is design to run with methonal. Stay tuned for pictures and video. Also if you have any questions please contact me.
Thanks Justin Silbernagel

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Thats good info Skidoo'in. I was trying to figure a way to use a pressure switch to activate the methanol and do it all without using any electronic boxes, but this would work well.

The reason I would be interested in straight meth is the fact that it evaporates far quicker than water and therefore it has a much greater refrigerant ability. The quicker you can get charge tube temps way down, the better and more consistant horsepower can be built. Also, you can use less meth than water/meth to achieve the same level of refrigeration and that will cause less of the dreaded crank wash that is much talked about on meth injected two strokes. I dont know how much of it I believe, it seems that I would just add a little oil to the meth and problem would be solved but who knows.

The biggest problem with adding the meth via electronic box or mechanical injection to a carb turbo two stroke is the fact that once the powerjet is set, you are basically on a straight fuel curve referenced to boost. The issue with just all of a sudden adding methanol is that even if you start with a small amount and add on a percentage rate, it will make hitting a consistent a/f ratio throughout the rpm and boost range difficult because you dont want to add meth on a straight curve from 0 lbs to peak. And, if you start adding a very big percentage of meth, you will need to set your base fuel leaner, thus leaving the possibility open of not getting meth to the motor and having a lean burndown. I am on board with the idea of 1 gallon lasting quite awhile EXCEPT that if you are running large boost (say 15 lbs on a two stroke) and pulling gnarly hills, it seems to me that at 25 percent addition of meth, a gallon would be gone rather quickly, at which point you are now basically getting 75 percent of required fuel at WOT and full boost. I guess you could rig an electronic boost controller to it and remove according boost but what a pain. All things to work through I supose

Good info with the above mentioned box...I think I can make that work with the right buttons pushed...

yes, i understand your concern... from what i hear on tuning the 4 bangers... you just add meth and take it away until it runs clean, running the normal boosted fuel setup, because even in a carbed 4stroke motor the issues are the same, how to you take away fuel and comp for meth, well, you really dont just the sheer cooling and slowed burn affect of water will allow you to runs a LOT more boost. been reading around and the benefit of a lower meth to water ratio is that meth is a fuel so you go richer the more you add, so if your running say 10% meth and 90% water it wont freeze, your afr ratios wont go nuts and you will supress deto like crazy. even straight water works VERY well, just in our temps that would be an issue. i know 2 to 4 stroke is a major difference, but people who have headshimed rx1 motors only. normally about 12# safe on 91 could run 18# on water/meth and 91 and have no deto. just gives you an idea of the boost you could run pretty easily.

and with a 174 xp at 15# i would have to say there aint gonna be much around that will have you running WOT burning meth, you will just skip up them at part throttle!!!

keep the info coming, im VERY curious about how it works out for the 2strokes i was super interested before, got told to look elsewhere and now am in 4 stoke world.

 

[triple7]

Ya I plan to play with the meth thing. I may buy a kit from you Silber if you think it can be made to work with carbs.

Skidoo'in, I understand the idea behind splitting the meth with water to control the overfueling issue...one thing that should be fully thought through though is the fact that any water that makes its way to the chamber cools significantly BUT also increases compression ratio do to the fact that water WILL NOT compress. Therefore, if any water is in the chamber, it is in effect like having a smaller cc chamber. Just thoughts.

However, if I could use a meth kit with aircraft fuel and push into the 15-20 lbs of boost range...I think we should have a decent hotrod

 

[TurboM700]

justin

Be carefull with this on a 2 stroke I have dealt with on a long term base and it's hard on cranks. It like to wash the oil of the bearing and pistons. It took a while to notice it to happen but it did on more then one occasion. I have been expermintent with injecting it in different loactions of the motor with good results just not long term yet. Just FYI

Mike

 

[DWHalverson]

Not trying to get in the middle of Silber's thread, but you can turn my turbo kit up and run 20psi if you want to. You sound like you're already looking for more power triple7? I might have to let my secret HI-HP weapon option for next season out early.

Silber and I have been talking and this might also be an option on my turbo kits for the Ski-Doos. I'm waiting for some more feed back. I know Silber is still testing this summer and has tested last winter as well.

Dave Halverson

However, if I could use a meth kit with aircraft fuel and push into the 15-20 lbs of boost range...I think we should have a decent hotrod

 

[Silber]

Yes this will work on carb sleds also.
I have the universal kits ready to go if someone wants one. The polaris and arctic cat plug and play kits wont be ready until late summer early fall of this year.

We will let some kits go for $400 shipped right now. They are complete kits, with 3 quart container. Everything is included to set your sled up with water/meth injection.

Keep tuned
Justin Silbernagel

 

[DWHalverson]

Justin did you get my pm last night? Was it any help?

Dave

 

[Silber]

Yes I did I will call you when I free up some time. Thanks Dave

 

[triple7]

Oh I know your kit will run atleast 20 pounds Dave, and I think the turbo is good for more. However, to get a doo to live on 20 pounds, its gunna take some rediculously expensive fuel and that could have marginal effects. Mostly what I am trying to do is come up with a system that builds the most power per pound of boost that is possible. My ideas are all based off of that theory. However, if I combine this meth kit with some of my cooler plans, (and a head mod) I should be able to chase the boost up quite a ways on avgas. My head and cylinder are going to get some revamping from a turbo genius and couple that with a ton of boost on relatively cheap fuel...we should have a hotrod.

Super secret ideas eh?? Dave, you have a pm