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Shred4Ever
Well-known member
Hi guys.. Just new getting into turbo world!! Does a Silber have a Water to Air Option?
Silber Turbo Question
- Thread starter Shred4Ever
- Start date
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Shred4Ever
Well-known member
So just bear with me here fellas.. So if you don't have a Water to Air you potentially will have increased charge temps - thus not able to run increased boost... And if you do is there a known temp # that is a reference point that makes system inefficient and boost? I guess having said that your turbo also must be matched for WTA system or not?
Thanks
Thanks
Most Indy cars don't run intercoolers, But than again they don't really get driven that hard compared to snowmobiles.
Indy car racers need to nut up and start driving those things and put some Water to air intercoolers on them.
Indy car racers need to nut up and start driving those things and put some Water to air intercoolers on them.
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silberpro
Active member
Basically you are correct.
In short bursts or low boost, 5lbs or less you can get away without having a intercooler.
The intake temp on your sled, in a big powder day, long pull hill, goes through the roof.
It would be nice to have a lighter,simpler,cheaper system than W2A.
At this point in time, for our purpose it is the most effective way to control intake temps.
In short bursts or low boost, 5lbs or less you can get away without having a intercooler.
The intake temp on your sled, in a big powder day, long pull hill, goes through the roof.
It would be nice to have a lighter,simpler,cheaper system than W2A.
At this point in time, for our purpose it is the most effective way to control intake temps.
V
Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
A water intercooler is a must and there shouldn't be any discussion about that....longevity, reliability, performance are all based on controling the overall heat and majorly charge temperature on a turbo application and specialy on a 2 stroke application. You might check HM Turbos intercooler, very effective design.
vi-pec powersports
vi-pec powersports
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Silber
Well-known member
Honda is running 2.2 turbo engines in their Indy cars.
I have a good thread I can start if anyone is interested its about a guy that criticizes a lot of turbo companies on the forums.
One of his good friends called me out of the blue and told me his user name. Its was a very interesting conversation.
I have a good thread I can start if anyone is interested its about a guy that criticizes a lot of turbo companies on the forums.
One of his good friends called me out of the blue and told me his user name. Its was a very interesting conversation.
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Shred4Ever
Well-known member
Thanks for the feedback guys... But I really like the Silber setup... Just trying look for info at this time.
I run an Air to Air Intercooler on my sled and love it. I have never had any rpm fade unless it is about 50 degree F and over a 2 minute pull. Crazy Mountain Extreme ran an Intake Air Temp and their charge temp never exceeded 120. This was a non intercooled Aerocharger setup without a cold air intake.
Intercoolers cause more complexity and more weight to be added to the sled. If you drive you sled in the middle of summer on a 90 degree day then yea you do need an Water to Air Intercooler.
Just do the math and that will tell you the charge temp on the turbo kit.
IDEAL GAS LAW
In an ideal gas, molecules have no volume and do not interact. Pressure varies linearly with temperature, volume, and quantity according to the ideal gas law,
Pressure = (n*R*T) / V
where:
P is the absolute pressure of the gas
n is the amount of substance
T is the absolute temperature
V is the volume
R is the ideal gas constant.
All turbos are very different because of the Volume. The more volume the lower the charge temp. You can't just say i'm running more than 5 lbs of boost so i have to have an intercooler.
"IF YOU ARGUE WITH MATH YOU WILL LOSE"
Intercoolers cause more complexity and more weight to be added to the sled. If you drive you sled in the middle of summer on a 90 degree day then yea you do need an Water to Air Intercooler.
Just do the math and that will tell you the charge temp on the turbo kit.
IDEAL GAS LAW
In an ideal gas, molecules have no volume and do not interact. Pressure varies linearly with temperature, volume, and quantity according to the ideal gas law,
Pressure = (n*R*T) / V
where:
P is the absolute pressure of the gas
n is the amount of substance
T is the absolute temperature
V is the volume
R is the ideal gas constant.
All turbos are very different because of the Volume. The more volume the lower the charge temp. You can't just say i'm running more than 5 lbs of boost so i have to have an intercooler.
"IF YOU ARGUE WITH MATH YOU WILL LOSE"
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silberpro
Active member
Justin I stand corrected
Didnt realize Indy had gone back to turbo engines for this season.
V6 2.2 litre turbo running on E85 race fuel.
Are they intercooled ?
Snow4shover
I agree
If all you are doing, is a 2 minute pull
Dont get a intercooler
My scenario
2013 Pro Rmk 7lbs of boost
50/50 race gas and premium non eth 94 mix
No timing manipulation
162 x 3 CE
And a Kmod skid
Ambient temp around 0
2 ft of fresh heavy, coastal powder. First pass.
A 1000 ft elevation change, climb with the last 200 feet narrowing down to a chute through the rocks to get on the ice field. This is the route into our riding area. The N/A sleds wait at the bottom till its a highway. Sometimes hours
There is no way this can be done in 2 minutes. Track speed is whatever you have, actual speed is somewhere between 5 to 20 mph
Non intercooled sleds have to do this in 4 parts.
Otherwise intake temp goes through the roof. The engine stops making power and falls on its face. NOT GOOD. Stopping waiting cooling.
Sorry it took so long to get my question.
Do I need a Water to air Intercooler
Check your math!!
Didnt realize Indy had gone back to turbo engines for this season.
V6 2.2 litre turbo running on E85 race fuel.
Are they intercooled ?
Snow4shover
I agree
If all you are doing, is a 2 minute pull
Dont get a intercooler
My scenario
2013 Pro Rmk 7lbs of boost
50/50 race gas and premium non eth 94 mix
No timing manipulation
162 x 3 CE
And a Kmod skid
Ambient temp around 0
2 ft of fresh heavy, coastal powder. First pass.
A 1000 ft elevation change, climb with the last 200 feet narrowing down to a chute through the rocks to get on the ice field. This is the route into our riding area. The N/A sleds wait at the bottom till its a highway. Sometimes hours
There is no way this can be done in 2 minutes. Track speed is whatever you have, actual speed is somewhere between 5 to 20 mph
Non intercooled sleds have to do this in 4 parts.
Otherwise intake temp goes through the roof. The engine stops making power and falls on its face. NOT GOOD. Stopping waiting cooling.
Sorry it took so long to get my question.
Do I need a Water to air Intercooler
Check your math!!
B
Boyko
Well-known member
If your intake temps are "through the roof" you are running to much boost and your past the efficacy of your turbo, altitude can be taxing on a turbo. A bigger turbo is going to seem more laggy at altitude without bumping up the compression but getting a bigger turbo is fixing your problem were it originated from. A good water to air is going to make your turbo work even harder at the same boost level.
SilberPro
Do you have any pics of this setup, sounds sweet, we are looking to do a few customs and always looking for ideas, or if you know anyone selling a good kit.
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Boyko
Well-known member
Sounds like your intake air gets heated and you run into a rich tuning condition, what altitude is this happening at? Do you know your intake air temp when your sled falls on it face, what AF numbers are you running WFO, Do you have a cold air intake. I believe this can be fixed without spending to much money, sorry I just caught on you were only running 7psi
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silberpro
Active member
Boyko
Thanks for the interest
My new sled has a complete new system with a water 2 air.
My last year sled with the big intake temps was a 2011 163 Pro.
With a 2012 Silber setup. I then did some upgrades,that got rid of the sewer pipe intake and replaced it with a silicone intake system that came up through the hood. CAI benefits are minimal compared to Silber pulling it from the OEM location
Replaced the stock Silber turbo with a KPA 2863 that I bought from Justin.
With the stock turbo and 5lbs intake temps were borderline
With the KPA and 8lbs is when the intake temps would get so high you couldnt touch the air box. Power would just go away. Never put a temp gauge on the intake,felt the fact the box was so hot I couldnt touch it, answered the question.
AFR was at 12.0 WOT
Altitude 3500 to 4000 feet at the beginning of the climb.
I looked at doing a W2A on my Silber system, can be done but very cramped with air intake running behind the engine.
Buy nice or Buy twice
I bought twice
Thanks for the interest
My new sled has a complete new system with a water 2 air.
My last year sled with the big intake temps was a 2011 163 Pro.
With a 2012 Silber setup. I then did some upgrades,that got rid of the sewer pipe intake and replaced it with a silicone intake system that came up through the hood. CAI benefits are minimal compared to Silber pulling it from the OEM location
Replaced the stock Silber turbo with a KPA 2863 that I bought from Justin.
With the stock turbo and 5lbs intake temps were borderline
With the KPA and 8lbs is when the intake temps would get so high you couldnt touch the air box. Power would just go away. Never put a temp gauge on the intake,felt the fact the box was so hot I couldnt touch it, answered the question.
AFR was at 12.0 WOT
Altitude 3500 to 4000 feet at the beginning of the climb.
I looked at doing a W2A on my Silber system, can be done but very cramped with air intake running behind the engine.
Buy nice or Buy twice
I bought twice
I am anti Polaris, and anti Turbo's. Have spanked quite a few of them with my NA DOO sleds. With that being said, I highly endorse Silber Turbo's, have run against them, and they give me ALL I can handle "and then some"
, excellent performance, excellent workmanship, and from reports from the owners of Silber Turbo's whom I know quite well .......... Excellent customer service. 
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Shred4Ever
Well-known member
Thank you for the feedback IdahoSlim... As I really like it also. So just need to make a decision of whom's product to buy!!!
Look at them all.
Big part to me would be where you live.
Is there a manufacturer or dealer close to you?
How much do you want to spend?
Keep in mind, a Pro with a turbo likes to wheelie.
Depending on your riding, might want to keep a little $ for a coupled rear skid.
But I am sure there are those on hear, that will say a skid is a waste of money.
Have fun there are lots of good kits.
Big part to me would be where you live.
Is there a manufacturer or dealer close to you?
How much do you want to spend?
Keep in mind, a Pro with a turbo likes to wheelie.
Depending on your riding, might want to keep a little $ for a coupled rear skid.
But I am sure there are those on hear, that will say a skid is a waste of money.
Have fun there are lots of good kits.
there is always something left on the table without some kind of intercooler. Turbo sizing is hardly a defence for our sleds bigger turbos will help to as extent but compressing air creates heat. Anything above 5psi needs W2A i think.
on sleds that boondock, blast up and down a few hills its not as noticeable. If you want to pull big chutes and climb for 5 minutes straight at full throttle. You will get heat fade and intake temps that destroy horsepower.
Sleds are such a friken cool thing to turbo. How can you not run water to air? We get to build boost on snow!!! Ice cold frozen land! We are the only motorsport that has snow around us the entire time. Take advantage of it.
Lots of great turbo companies out there without intercooling, but look at hm or tss for example. They are famous for huge hp with great reliability that wouldn't be possible without water 2 air cooling. Aero is even on board with the new snow intercoolers.
cold air intakes, and w2a should be on every tubo imo
on sleds that boondock, blast up and down a few hills its not as noticeable. If you want to pull big chutes and climb for 5 minutes straight at full throttle. You will get heat fade and intake temps that destroy horsepower.
Sleds are such a friken cool thing to turbo. How can you not run water to air? We get to build boost on snow!!! Ice cold frozen land! We are the only motorsport that has snow around us the entire time. Take advantage of it.
Lots of great turbo companies out there without intercooling, but look at hm or tss for example. They are famous for huge hp with great reliability that wouldn't be possible without water 2 air cooling. Aero is even on board with the new snow intercoolers.
cold air intakes, and w2a should be on every tubo imo