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Shorai Battery for Pro

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Anyone know the part # for a Shorai battery to fit the battery box on an ES kit for a 11 Pro RMK?

Battery box appears to be 6"W x 3.5"D x 6.5" H.

Thanks in advance,
Ken
 
I'm running the LFX14L2-BS12
It is much smaller than the stock battery. It comes with a bunch of foam to take up the extra space.

About $90 shipped on ebay
 
I run the Shorai that is just slightly smaller than the stock battery. I will see if there is a part number on it. I also run quite a bit of that foam padding to protect the battery.
 
there was a guy on here, i think with speed cell batteries that were supposed to be making a light weight battery for sleds. but havent seen anything on the forum yet.
 
I ordered a LiPo from EarthX today. 8lbs lighter and hopefully works good.

image.jpg
 
How are the lithium Polymer or Li-ion batteries in the cold??


Lithium chemistries, like their lead acid counterparts, are Negatively effected by the cold. OEM's get around this cold weather performance degradation by overcapacity-- we have all seen or heard of sleds that come stock with a 20aH battery starting with a 7aH. Extreme cold temps make turning a motor harder and they reduce the batteries chemistry to be able to "push" current through.


With Pros we have an advantage that we can pull start if necessary. It all comes down to how small light you want to go and what you are willing to consider "acceptable" performance. Yes, we can oversize and offer a Speedcell lithium battery that will start in the coldest of temps-- it will still be smaller and lighter than its lead acid counterpart.

In Lake Tahoe, I run my Pro on a Speedcell four cell battery-- it weighs 380 grams. This is the same battery that we supply to Factory race teams running 600cc sport bikes. There are protocols that I follow running this battery-- if I leave it out at night in sub zero temps I either pull the battery-- we use dual pole Anderson style connectors that clip together (no tools) that are rated to 100g's of force. OR, if I forget, I pull the sled over by hand the first time to start it and then rely on the battery for the rest of the day.

We are currently in the late stages of Patent approval for a new cold weather technology that will allow us to retain small size and satisfy the mil-spec of starting Diesel engines in -50 temps.
 
I ordered a LiPo from EarthX today. 8lbs lighter and hopefully works good.


Be careful if this battery truly is LiPO -- lithium Polymer.

Lithium Polymer is the most energy dense of commonly used lithium chemistries--BUT it is also the most unstable. LiPO depends on the individual cell cases to exact a certain amount of pressure and stability to the cells. If the case fails it can lead to internal shorts that can lead to fires--( youTube LiPO fires).

We use LiPO in some of our World Championship level race teams, and some of our military applications, we do not currently use it at the consumer level because of it's inherent dangers when not actively balanced and safeguarded.
 
Re-posting this from another thread to explain something about myself:

I have been watching these battery threads for awhile and formulating a response. I apologize in advance for this being long-winded....

In the interest of full disclosure, I am the Director of Motorsports for Speedcell Technologies we make Lithium batteries for powersport applications.

I want to give you some information so that you can make an informed decision without simply saying we are great and everybody else sucks.

When it comes to Lithium batteries, there is more misinformation out there than legitimate information. Some of it is intentionally misleading, some of it is simply because some of these "battery companies" really don't know what they are doing-- they aren't actually battery companies, they are merely resellers of Chinese made products. Even things that should be straight forward are not always what they appear to be. What is even more disturbing is that some of these "battery companies" actually seem to believe some of their own marketing materials. Speedcell Technologies is the Motorsports division of Navitus. Navitus was started by a veteran (15 year)-- USMC Force Recon. Navitus is a U.S. Department of Energy and US Department of Defense contractor-- cage code 1VC84. Many of you are former or current military and understand the significance of a cage code, this will be pertinent further in the discussion.

Here goes.....

Lithium DOES have limitations in cold weather applications--as does lead acid (what the OEMs use now in their snowmobiles). The strategy that the OEMs use to overcome cold weather performance degradation is capacity. Most OEMs have a "performance envelope" of -30 to +30 degrees. This is why most OEMs batteries are 16 to 20 amp hour even though many people (SnoWesters) will tell you that a 7 amp hour battery will work just fine-- it will as long as it isn't too cold out or the sled was in a trailer or heated garage. Try and start a Nytro that has been outside for a week in -30 temperatures with a 7 amp hour battery and it will prove my point. As a technology platform, lithium can use the same strategy of excess capacity to overcome cold weather performance degradation. Even with excess capacity, the Lithium platform is still smaller and lighter than its lead acid equivalent due to the fact that lithium is more energy dense.

Not all lithium batteries are created equally. A battery's performance is dependent on the quality of cells inside. The cell manufacturers even have different levels of "quality" in the cells they offer. Why does this matter to you, the consumer/ end user? The cell quality typically determines two important factors when it comes to battery "performance"-- 1. starting power ( ability to overcome motor inertia and spin the motor fast enough to fire), 2. Longevity- lithium batteries are susceptible to overdischarge -- even more suseptible then lead acid-- if the individual cells are not balanced properly and one discharges more than the others in a start cycle, the battery can be rendered inoperable. At Speedcell, we use A-grade A123 cells because they are the most energy dense and have the highest quality. Many of our competitors claim to use A123 cells, and some of them do, but they are not the A-grade cells. The reason that I can make this claim is that A123 will not sell A-grade cells to a company that does not have a US government issued cage code. As I stated previously, Speedcell through its parent company Navitus, has a cage code-- 1VC84. Our products are built in our facility in Las Cruces, New Mexico. We supply battery systems to the DoE and the DoD. If you have a custom application or need, we can build a unique solution for you. Call our competitors and tell them that you need a custom battery built for size, layout, capacity, etc-- see what they say. It's real easy to determine who actually is a battery company versus a "battery company" (i.e. reseller of foreign products)

Who uses Speedcell?
Department of Energy
Department of Defense
Monster Energy Graves Yamaha (AMA Superbike factory team)
Yoshimura Suzuki Racing (AMA Superbike factory team)
M4 Broaster Chicken Suzuki (AMA Superbike)
Geico Suzuki (AMA Daytona Sportbike)
M4 Broaster Chicken Suzuki (AMA Daytona Sportbike)
Y.E.S. Graves Yamaha (AMA Daytona Sportbike factory team)
Roadrace Factory RedBull Yamaha (AMA Daytona Sportbike team)

At the last AMA round April 20-22 at Road Atlanta, Speedcell took ALL twelve podium positions in the four Superbike/ Daytona Sportbike races. ALL twelve. Why does this matter?....because every battery that has been discussed in this thread is available to the teams, and they all choose Speedcell.



Why else should you choose Speedcell?

We are snowmobilers

We actively support keeping riding areas open. We are currently drafting a corporate policy to divert a percentage of snowmobile battery sales profits to groups that fight land closures

We truly are an American company, building American products--cage code 1VC84

Ask your dealer to carry Speedcell. If they don't, feel free to PM me.

Thanks,
Murph
 
Ran an EarthX battery in my KTM 300 this summer,says it has a balancing circuit built in and doesn't need a special charger.
I could ride the bike on the battery it was that strong.
I think its a Colorado company.
Anyway love the battery
 
navitus-logo_final_ltgreen3.png


MURPH....DUDE.... ROCK ON...

We have to do some riding together this season.

Thank you for the articulate and informative posts.

Can you post pics of your battery for the PRO with dimensions?

What is the case size?
What chance of making a semi-empty case or spacer for a "bolt in" replacement?

Now we just need to get Polaris to make some good lightweight starters for these things.. They seem to be in the dark ages with compact motor technology for starting compared to bikes (or cordless tools for that matter)

How sensitive are YOUR Li batteries to charging voltage?
Bulk, Absorption and float rates compared to flooded cell?

With your battery... is there a better charge controller option than the standard Polaris regulation?






.
 
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Be careful if this battery truly is LiPO -- lithium Polymer.

Lithium Polymer is the most energy dense of commonly used lithium chemistries--BUT it is also the most unstable. LiPO depends on the individual cell cases to exact a certain amount of pressure and stability to the cells. If the case fails it can lead to internal shorts that can lead to fires--( youTube LiPO fires).

We use LiPO in some of our World Championship level race teams, and some of our military applications, we do not currently use it at the consumer level because of it's inherent dangers when not actively balanced and safeguarded.

It is a lithium phosphate battery and USA made.
 
navitus-logo_final_ltgreen3.png


MURPH....DUDE.... ROCK ON...

We have to do some riding together this season.

Thank you for the articulate and informative posts.

Can you post pics of your battery for the PRO with dimensions?

What is the case size?
What chance of making a semi-empty case or spacer for a "bolt in" replacement?

Now we just need to get Polaris to make some good lightweight starters for these things.. They seem to be in the dark ages with compact motor technology for starting compared to bikes (or cordless tools for that matter)

How sensitive are YOUR Li batteries to charging voltage?
Bulk, Absorption and float rates compared to flooded cell?

With your battery... is there a better charge controller option than the standard Polaris regulation?

.

Eric,

I'm at my house in Santa Cruz right now. My battery setup is the 4 cell which probably involves more protocols than the "average" end user wants to deal with. It weighs 380 grams-- the stock battery bracket probably weighs more. I need to find a more elegant, consumer friendly solution for mounting an 8 or 12 cell. The stock battery bracket has always bothered me in its size and heft.

We have been working on some compact starter motors for Superbikes that are really small and light. A lot of our technology is applicable to cold weather applications but also to a lot of Polaris non-snowmobile products. I've been meaning to reach out to Polaris regarding some of these things but we are a ridiculously small organization with a lot of bleeding edge technology. In all honesty, we have been so focused on raising VC capital, delivering projects/ products to the military and some of our professional race teams that the consumer side has taken a back seat. In some ways it is foolish, but when we are ready to roll in heavy on the consumer side, our technology and technical partners is what will separate us from the seemingly unending trend of "new" battery "companies".

Charging Voltage-- our batteries that are currently consumer available, like ALL current Lithium batteries are VERY sensitive to voltage both over discharge (will kill all lithium batteries) and incoming charge voltage. If incoming charge voltage exceeds 14.5 volts, it will cause the cells to "vent" and ruin the battery. These are two areas where lead acid is still superior to Lithium--robustness. Lead acid can be over discharged and overcharged (within reason) and keep on going. A typical Battery Tender, or float charger, intended for Lead acid batteries will typically kill a Lithium battery because of the anti sulfation protocol written into the micro controller. The anti sulfation protocol shocks the lead plates with voltage to drop the sulfation off the plates-- the lithium cells interpret this voltage spike as an over volt situation and vent the cells before they can heat up enough to catch fire.

Voltage regulation-- yes there are superior methods of Voltage regulation than what is on Polaris snowmobiles. Have I installed it On my sled?... No, not yet. I want to run mine completely as a consumer would so we know what to expect with charge/discharge cycling with the stock system. I have kicked around the idea of a rebuildable MOSFET regulator for retrofit but I don't know if it is necessary (or profitable) based on my experience with 6,000 miles on personal Pros and having read almost 0 issues regarding the voltage regulation of the ProRMK platform. Can we make a superior system? Yes. Is it necessary? Not sure? Could we sell enough of them to justify the R&D? Doubtful.


Most importantly--let's ride this winter. I should be available more often than not this year, same as years past.

Murph
 
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Here is a picture of the four cell Speedcell battery in my Pro and the dual pole Anderson style connector we use on all Speedcell batteries. It is a tool less connector that is rated to 100g's-- it will not come apart on our shaker table, terminal nuts typically vibrate loose on our table in less than 6 hours.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1350580130.575417.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1350580152.176834.jpg
 
A ballistic nylon pouch for that or an 8 cell would be great easy to mount out of the way... and make it easy to bring in at night.

Are there inexpensive chargers for those packs that would charge one up overnight?

If you were to make one for the pro's... could you integrate in a discharge limiter?

Heck, the 4 cell would be nice for those needing just a stable DC supply on a non ES sled!
 
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