Secondary Clutch issue or......

[MikeMetzger]

Took my new (to me) 2014 Pro out for a ride this weekend, made it a mile down the road, then as soon as we left the trail I took one powder carve and I knew something wasn't right. First thing is I got a det. error, then also noticed something "slipping" I thought it was the belt drive, but it was coming from the clutch side. I removed the side panel and could see what seemed like the belt slipping the secondary and acting/grabbing spratically. Thought maybe the spring was broken in the secondary, but after disassembling it all "looked" fine. However the sleeve seemed like maybe it was a little worn to the point that it could bind......

Really not sure where to look or what Im looking for, hoping someone will have some advice on what it could be or what to look at.

- Belt drive looks fine
- Track tension is good
- ??

 

[Scott]

How does the primary spring look?
How many miles on the chassis?
How many miles on that clutching et-up?
Did you tow it back to the trailer or drive it? If you drove it, how did it act? Did it do it all they way back?

"det error" ??
What is the elevation there?
What fuel do you have in it?
How old was the fuel in it?
Did you over-rev or did it go into DET lock?
Did you have to shut it down? Was is running "fine" on the trail before you did that?
Did the code show up again after you restarted your sled?

Was it properly warmed up when you got the "det" light?
Did the cylinders "heat soak" before you left the truck or was it still warming up when you left the trail?
How warm were the water temps before you bailed off the road and whacked the throttle?

Just trying to rule out a couple of obvious things.

 

[MikeMetzger]

How does the primary spring look?
How many miles on the chassis?
How many miles on that clutching et-up?
Did you tow it back to the trailer or drive it? If you drove it, how did it act? Did it do it all they way back?

"det error" ??
What is the elevation there?
What fuel do you have in it?
How old was the fuel in it?
Did you over-rev or did it go into DET lock?
Did you have to shut it down? Was is running "fine" on the trail before you did that?
Did the code show up again after you restarted your sled?

Was it properly warmed up when you got the "det" light?
Did the cylinders "heat soak" before you left the truck or was it still warming up when you left the trail?
How warm were the water temps before you bailed off the road and whacked the throttle?

Just trying to rule out a couple of obvious things.

How many miles on the chassis:
2,200 - 500 fresh top end from fast traxx

How many miles on that clutching et-up?
Unknown

Did you tow it back to the trailer or drive it? If you drove it, how did it act? Did it do it all they way back?
Drove it back, seemed to run fine on the trail and in
higher RPM's, issue was under heavier load.

"det error" ??
Guage read a det code, perhaps belt slipping and
and engine over reving...???

What is the elevation there?
We were only at about 2,500ft-3,000ft

What fuel do you have in it?
91 Oct from shell

How old was the fuel in it?
New that day

Did you over-rev or did it go into DET lock?
I think this was answered in the above about the
clutches slipping causing over reving.......

Did you have to shut it down? Was is running "fine" on the trail before you did that?
Was running find on the trail, only weird thing from
that morning was when I started the sled, the gauge
didn't come on until a little while after starting

Did the code show up again after you restarted your sled?
Code did not come back on, just the one time

Was it properly warmed up when you got the "det" light?
Yes, I always let my sled warm to at least 100 before
hitting the trail

How warm were the water temps before you bailed off the road and whacked the throttle?
Temp was regular 125-135

I should mention that I rode it last Saturday all day and it ran great, no issues at all.

 

[geo]

Might just be time for a new belt or a clean.

Was there snow in there?

I'm having a hard time picturing how you observed the belt slipping and grabbing in the field.

 

[MikeMetzger]

I had the side panel off and was just leaning over to see the clutches as I did a few launches. I could tell something was definitely not working properly, but wasn't exactly sure what......

I will be putting my newly rebuilt clutches on it from my other Pro (Lost compression in one cyclinder) and take it up to the hills after work this week to see if that fixes it.

My main reason for the post was in case someone had first hand experience with the secondary failing and what kind of symptoms it caused or causes.....

 

[volcano buster]

Secondary clutch bushings worn causing it to bind and not retract fully?

 

[MikeMetzger]

Secondary clutch bushings worn causing it to bind and not retract fully?

Possibly, I opened the secondary and nothing "looked" wrong, I'm not sure how to test secondary clutches....

 

[Carlos Randolph]

Possibly, I opened the secondary and nothing "looked" wrong, I'm not sure how to test secondary clutches....

Take the secondary off and the helix out, spin the rollers with you finger. They should spin freely and yet not be super loose.

The secondary spring could have sacked out/lost it's rate for some crazy reason??? No real way to know this with out a spring rater and the know how. Easier to just get a new spring.

With the spring out, check the bushing on the shaft, and make sure the sheaves move back and fourth freely and is not sloppy/loose.

Does either clutch drive or driven, have a bunch of black marks on it like the belt is slipping?

Can you completely rule out some out side reason for the slippage, either water/snow or oil. I say oil due to the fact that of you stating that's you were side hilling? leak or cap issue, spill ect.

 

[MikeMetzger]

I will take a closer look at the secondary clutch tomorrow. For now I swapped my newly rebuilt secondary from my other Pro and will test it out after work and see if for some odd reason that fixes anything.

I'll have to give the secondary a closer look, but I do remember seeing visual of the belt rubbing on the secondary, I'll look tomorrow and see whats what.

 

[Scott]

I will take a closer look at the secondary clutch tomorrow. For now I swapped my newly rebuilt secondary from my other Pro and will test it out after work and see if for some odd reason that fixes anything.

I'll have to give the secondary a closer look, but I do remember seeing visual of the belt rubbing on the secondary, I'll look tomorrow and see whats what.

How many delrin washers in the secondary?


How much belt deflection at idle? (how much of the belt is sticking up out to the secondary sheaves at idle?)

 

[JonezyBones]

Sounds like you either got some snow on there or something in the drivetrain/secondary was in a bind.

If the spring lost its rate then you'll notice the sled loosing RPM's full throttle under a heavy load (powder)

I had a spring go last year and when you set it on a flat surface it had a bit of lean to it. Other than that it visually looked fine.

Good luck and let us know what you find!

 

[maurfello]

Yes please share what you learn!!!! I am having the same type of issue with my 2015 Pro 163" with only 300 miles on it. The symptoms I am experiencing are as follows 1. While performing a tight left turn or left downhill turn, their is a growling type noise with a soon after DET type noise/feel with occasional over revving soon after. 2. Very inconsistent RPM ranging from 7500 to 8300 until ridden around a while after initial clutch slip/stick or whatever it is doing. 3. Primary clutch has lots of smeared belt on both faces of the primary clutch where the belt rides. My first thought was my secondary clutch needs to be ether rebuilt or replaced. If anyone has experience with this please tell. Thanks in advance!!!!!

 

[tuneman]

Primary clutch has lots of smeared belt on both faces of the primary clutch where the belt rides.

Start by cleaning up your clutch sheaves with a green scrubbie and hot soapy water, no other chemicals. Scrub brush your belt with soapy water as well. Then put your belt back on and make certain the secondary deflection is set correctly.

 

[cascadesnowjunky]

I believe both of you are having the same issue (wet clutches). Mine has done this a few times when carving hard to the left in dry deep snow. A cold belt will sometimes slip also, Mike stated he made it up the trail a mile before bombing off trail. The belt needs to have at least a few miles of easy gong to have a chance to warm up. Also the secondary could have frost on it and the first time you nail it it gets down in the secondary far enough to hit the frost or moisture causing it to slip. I would not be to worried about anything unless it continues, then possibly look for other issues.

 

[maurfello]

Cascade, I can't imagine wet clutches being it because the trail getting in to the riding area is between 7 & 10 miles depending on where we are able to park. I would think that many miles in is plenty of time to warm up/dry out everything? Tuneman, I had the dealer go through everything preseason, so I would think that they would have checked the deflection but maybe not, I'll have to ask.

 

[MikeMetzger]

My belt deflection is properly set and I really dont think it was the clutches being wet as it had plenty of time to dry....

They only thing that makes sense is some kind of issue in the clutching. I swapped out the secondary with a freshly rebuilt one

Going up after work for a quick Braaaaap test

 

[maurfello]

Mike, keep us posted. Have a great ride!!!! Be safe!!!

 

[MikeMetzger]

New secondary seemed to fix it. Brapppp'd it around last night and no more issues. I'll have to properly tear into the original secondary and see whats what and report back in case anyone else ever has a similar issue.

 

[black z]

Start by cleaning up your clutch sheaves with a green scrubbie and hot soapy water, no other chemicals. Scrub brush your belt with soapy water as well. Then put your belt back on and make certain the secondary deflection is set correctly.

This, emory cloth is nice to clean up the clutch sheaves with too.

 

[sledheadd]

Yes please share what you learn!!!! I am having the same type of issue with my 2015 Pro 163" with only 300 miles on it. The symptoms I am experiencing are as follows 1. While performing a tight left turn or left downhill turn, their is a growling type noise with a soon after DET type noise/feel with occasional over revving soon after. 2. Very inconsistent RPM ranging from 7500 to 8300 until ridden around a while after initial clutch slip/stick or whatever it is doing. 3. Primary clutch has lots of smeared belt on both faces of the primary clutch where the belt rides. My first thought was my secondary clutch needs to be ether rebuilt or replaced. If anyone has experience with this please tell. Thanks in advance!!!!!

My 13 was doing similar to this ended up the vr was melting snow onto the belt causing it to slip. Might not be what your problem but something to look into.