Ripcharger M8 Eaglepass April 22/2011

[powderlites]

Videos of Ripcharger m8 at 5 psi boost pump gas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zhmbVnWwvk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oepIsyfnmeE

 

[backcountryislife]

Not to be nasty... but kinda looks rather non impressive for $6000 (oh, sorry, before you get ANY of the other stuff that you need).

I like the idea of the supercharger, but they need to work on the fact that dollar for dollar the supercharger is nothing that everyone said it would be. Nobody wants to spend $6k to be the special guy who gets to waste $1500+ to have similar power.

I was very excited to buy one of these, but they didn't drop the ball with their prices, they spiked it.


oh, and YES, I am bitter, #1 because I'm not riding today, and #2 because I was REALLY hoping to have the super on my next sled (in theory they very much fit my riding style)... and Buying two sleds this year... it will go on neither, both because of it not being that impressive, and because I'm not going to waste that much more money when turbos are already rather pricey.

 

[mattymac]

how come no one wants to run this thing side by side with say a stock M8?

these vids prove nothing

 

[backcountryislife]

how come no one wants to run this thing side by side with say a stock M8?

these vids prove nothing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ek0blQg3wc&feature=related

Supposedly they will walk all over a race gas sled with way less boost... yet it barely highmarks a 1000? yeah...


They have a total right to price these as high as they want, and the potential customer... has a total right to laugh at their stupid prices!



hey, can someone pm me with why the heck youtube embed NEVER works for me... what the heck do I do wrong each time?? der-de-der, can't link a video...

 

[backcountryislife]

So, is there anybody who has seen these run in person, who feels that they're really honestly worth the money? I'd love to be convinced otherwise, but I don't see that happening. I'm glad to throw a ton of money at my sled, but ONLY if results are commensurate with pricing... and so far I don't see that.

 

[RideGuy]

Well.... All I know is that the snow up here in Canada on that weekend was deep and heavy and at least 3 ft trench's.... Not to mention that camera angle does not let the viewer know how steep it really is.

At least people are working on alternate systems to provide the customer a choice of boost... Everybody has a style and preference and maybe this will fit some peoples desires....

Keep us posted and maybe run a few known set ups beside the Ripcharger and showcase where it shines...

 

[Boostfreak]

Kul How does it really compare to a turbo at same boost? How much boost can you run on pump gas? more than on a pump gas turbo? Thanks

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I gotta say, they are way overpriced for what they are.. also, since lower boost levels is all you can run on them... not like you can just crank it up, thats all you get.. they are gonna need some serious work before they are realistic competion for turbo's/

and until there is some side by side comparing.. those videos arent worth much

 

[backcountryislife]

Kul How does it really compare to a turbo at same boost? How much boost can you run on pump gas? more than on a pump gas turbo? Thanks

They're claiming notably more power from the same boost levels. Perhaps this is why they feel justified in the pricing.
Twisted claims the same thing though (and delivers from everyone I've heard), and despite being more than some others, has a complete setup for what they're charging for just the basic kit.

 

[Dogmeat]

They're claiming notably more power from the same boost levels. Perhaps this is why they feel justified in the pricing.
Twisted claims the same thing though (and delivers from everyone I've heard), and despite being more than some others, has a complete setup for what they're charging for just the basic kit.

I want somone to explain to me how you get more power out of the same boost level.

Seriously.

They are doing nothing to the displacement of the cylinders, so they will take in the same amount of air at 6 psi regardless of what put that 6 psi in the intake manifold. All things equal, that kit will make less crankshaft power than a turbo on 6 psi because it takes more power to drive the compressor than a turbo would driving the same compressor at 6 psi.

Total output nowithstanding, I can see where the powerband with a supercharger, even a centrifugal supercharger, would be a lot flatter than with a turbo, so there are definate advantages for boondockabillity with a supercharger setup as opposed to a turbo setup to be sure .... that would be the major advantage of this IMO, which is a pretty significant advantage .... but I fail to see how their claims of "more power" add up.

 

[scaredycat]

would i buy a supercharger for the cost of a used m8 or 1000..nope...do i need to be first..nope...is it a good investment..nope..is somebody gonna buy em...yep...somebody always needs to be first and then others who believe another persons opinions follow suit...good or bad ...it doesnt matter . New sleds for example , if the rails break, we buy another product to improve them and fix them ourselves...sounds dumb doesnt it...we as consumers are dumb...we keep buying chit from china and it falls apart in our hands when we go to use it for the first time and we dont take it back..its a hassle...were lazy too....i think its good that a company took the initiative to develop a new supercharger system for sleds..i think it will take time to work out the bugs and it may one day become equipped with one from the factory----thats what the engineers are waiting for...people show the intiative and do all the legwork and the large companies make their own and sink the little guy...sounds a little like a suspension company that starts with an H and a snowmobile company that starts with an A...either way..the have`s will buy it, the have not`s wont and the mechanically inclined will fix a used one. Sorry i put you all to sleep..lol

 

[mattymac]

I want somone to explain to me how you get more power out of the same boost level.

Seriously.

They are doing nothing to the displacement of the cylinders, so they will take in the same amount of air at 6 psi regardless of what put that 6 psi in the intake manifold. All things equal, that kit will make less crankshaft power than a turbo on 6 psi because it takes more power to drive the compressor than a turbo would driving the same compressor at 6 psi.

Total output nowithstanding, I can see where the powerband with a supercharger, even a centrifugal supercharger, would be a lot flatter than with a turbo, so there are definate advantages for boondockabillity with a supercharger setup as opposed to a turbo setup to be sure .... that would be the major advantage of this IMO, which is a pretty significant advantage .... but I fail to see how their claims of "more power" add up.

All boost is NOT equal!


Boost is no more than a measure of backpressure!

air density, temp and CFM is where its at

take an M8T strap on a 2554 garrett, 2860, and a 3071, all other things being equal at the same boost level, HP output will be diffrent! If this WASNT the case than you would be able to run that same garrett 2554 on say a 15litre 550 hp cat 3406, or take that same 3406 turbo and bolt it to your M8... not gunna work!!!


The supers do take HP to drive, boost is linear, but also changes drastically with RPM and elevation changes due to it being a fixed RPM setup.

also when you try to limit boost on a super setup your air intake temps will rise dramatically since you have to bleed off or dump excess air pressure in the intake system, your compressor is spinning at say close to being out of its efficiency (say 10lbs for example) but you have a bypass valve dumping boost to 5lbs, this is no more than a "boost leak" with higher IAT's you are more prone to deto, so dont think without a reduction in compressor rpm will it be easier to run pump gas at higher levels lb for lb with a turbo!

Supers have their spot on the mtn without a doubt, they have their limitations (as do turbos) is all and they need to be understood for people to have an understanding of what they need to run well day in and day out!

 

[RKT]

I agree.. Boost is Boost.. But the amount of power a certain amount of boost will produce is directly related to the temperature of the intake charge.. Inotherwords. give 10psi boost and 100degree charge temps. the power output will be very close no matter what the "boosting device" is or is not.
Change the charge temps and power developed will change along with it.

This is why the dynos can show these huge HP figures for boosted engines and yet, when that engine hits the snow, the performance does not reflect the dyno HP figure.. WHY?? Because in the REAL WORLD.. the intake charge temps will continue to rise and with temp rise there wil be HP LOSS!! On the dyno, the intae temps are kept lower and the runs are short enough that they do not get heated as much.. hence the big POWER numbers..

DYNO will NEVER equal REAL WORLD with any prolonged running

Kelsey

 

[Dogmeat]

All boost is NOT equal!


Boost is no more than a measure of backpressure!

air density, temp and CFM is where its at

take an M8T strap on a 2554 garrett, 2860, and a 3071, all other things being equal at the same boost level, HP output will be diffrent! If this WASNT the case than you would be able to run that same garrett 2554 on say a 15litre 550 hp cat 3406, or take that same 3406 turbo and bolt it to your M8... not gunna work!!!


The supers do take HP to drive, boost is linear, but also changes drastically with RPM and elevation changes due to it being a fixed RPM setup.

also when you try to limit boost on a super setup your air intake temps will rise dramatically since you have to bleed off or dump excess air pressure in the intake system, your compressor is spinning at say close to being out of its efficiency (say 10lbs for example) but you have a bypass valve dumping boost to 5lbs, this is no more than a "boost leak" with higher IAT's you are more prone to deto, so dont think without a reduction in compressor rpm will it be easier to run pump gas at higher levels lb for lb with a turbo!

Supers have their spot on the mtn without a doubt, they have their limitations (as do turbos) is all and they need to be understood for people to have an understanding of what they need to run well day in and day out!

If a compressor takes ambient air at ambient conditions, and boosts it 6 psi, even given differences in effeciency of different compressors, its not going to mean the difference between 150 F charge temps and 200 F charge temps. You can look in any thermodynamics textbook and see what the temperature / pressure of atmospheric air will be with no cooling.

The difference in air density due to the difference in compressor discharge temperature would be relativley small. If your boost gage is reading 6 psi in your air box, you have that mass of air that can be forced into your cylinder on the intake stroke, period. It does not matter how that air got there.

 

[mattymac]

If a compressor takes ambient air at ambient conditions, and boosts it 6 psi, even given differences in effeciency of different compressors, its not going to mean the difference between 150 F charge temps and 200 F charge temps. You can look in any thermodynamics textbook and see what the temperature / pressure of atmospheric air will be with no cooling.

The difference in air density due to the difference in compressor discharge temperature would be relativley small. If your boost gage is reading 6 psi in your air box, you have that mass of air that can be forced into your cylinder on the intake stroke, period. It does not matter how that air got there.

I know this is a supercharged thread, but its also a thread reguarding boosted applications, so I think a turbo could be used here for an example like I was doing...

Meat your talking strictly compressors, not exhaust housings or turbine wheels when you said that boost is boost.

In the real world in 2stroke turbo applications the exhuast side is just as important if not more in making hp than the compressor side, since like I said earlier boost is simply backpressure, with the scavinging effect from a 2stroke pipe, and the rising rate of drive pressure being equal to at best slightly higher than boost levels in the intake can very easily and dramatically change the hp output at similar boost levels between two diffrent setups on the same sled/motor.

And this is why supercharging a two stroke is totally diffrent than turboing one since you dont have the "linear constantly changing boost to drive pressure ratio" needed to keep a 2stroke "come up on pipe" so to speak.

If boost is boost, then why are there auto style turbo kits and those with aerochargers? Id like to see a 56 series aero @ 8 lbs and a garrett 2860 @ 8lbs both properly setup on an M8... Tell me which one goes up the hill and makes higher track speeds?

 

[gus bohne]

OOOH OOOH I KNOW !!!!

ahh, let the poor schmuks learn on their own,,

boost is NOT boost,, nor is airflow airflow..but any means of compressing air raises it temp period. the method of compressing in a 2 stroke app is paramount to your end result,, blowers are still handicapped to 8 psi max..
no changes and no proof of potential change to date..

limited boost seems to have a place though,, the etech turbo is proof there may well be a market for hundai type performance..

Gustapo
BSP / DNE
dynotech torque record holder at 6500 rpm ,, 2000 rpm more to go..