replacing 15 and prior clutches with TEAM

[bgraff1]

whats involved in replacing the 2015 and prior cat clutches with the 2016+ TEAM clutches? do they use the same jackshaft or are the splines different and I need to replace that also? I have two broken studs in the primary cover so I need to replace the primary. found a set of TEAM clutches and trying to decide if I should just buy a used primary and be done or swap everything over to the TEAM stuff. I just rebuilt the primary and have MDS weights in it. if I have to replace the jackshaft is the chain case side the same? I have a belt drive and rather not have to change that top sprocket or jackshaft for that matter.

 

[knh208]

Do you have a 15? Or older?

15 jackshaft is best. 14 and older are weak.

Either get your stock big fin machined or get a Team Tied. 16 secondary is nothing special, and needs a 16+ jackshaft.



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[bgraff1]

mines a 2012 with stock 12 primary and 13 secondary. why do I need the stock big fin machined?

 

[knh208]

Need is perhaps too strong. It works better when machined. Call Dakota Performance and see what they say.

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[boondocker97]

To answer your original questions, yes you would have to change the jackshaft to run a 2016 secondary clutch and thus your top drive sprocket. Racinstation might have alignment bars figured out to run the newer primary with the older secondary clutch. When I replace my primary I'll try to go that route to use a 2018 unit so it's zero deflection and I'll keep my 2014 secondary.

If you keep the current secondary I recommend changing the jackshaft to the 2015 one. $75 with a new clutch side bearing (which was going out of my 2014 at 1600 miles) You'll have to drill the end of it to mount your pulley again though.

 

[coolm7cat]

I have a 2012 and replaced the stock primary and secondary with team tied primary and secondary without having to replace my jack shaft. No issues with it now for a few years.

 

[coolm7cat]

Also my gearing is 19/50.

 

[richardderkevorkian]

It's only a matter of time before you break that 12 jack shaft. I run a 2017 primary on my 2013 with a big fin secondary and evo jackshaft. I just floated the secondary and it works well. I already had a Hercules helix and my secondary worked well so I didn't feel the need to upgrade it.

 

[richardderkevorkian]

Need is perhaps too strong. It works better when machined. Call Dakota Performance and see what they say.

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I called them to ask some questions about this last winter and the guy was extremely rude, won't get any of my money! Throw in a Hercules helix and it runs plenty cool.

 

[bgraff1]

for the record my secondary is 100% and setup perfect for my sled and no need to replace, just figured you maybe needed to with the new primary. is the TEAM primary that much better than the AC? I have my primary setup perfect with MDS weights its just that I broke two studs that hold the outer cover on and I fully rebuilt it last year. I could upgrade primaries or just replace that part that the studs are broken in

 

[richardderkevorkian]

for the record my secondary is 100% and setup perfect for my sled and no need to replace, just figured you maybe needed to with the new primary. is the TEAM primary that much better than the AC? I have my primary setup perfect with MDS weights its just that I broke two studs that hold the outer cover on and I fully rebuilt it last year. I could upgrade primaries or just replace that part that the studs are broken in

The problem with the pre team primary are the rollers. They are good for about ~1800 miles, I've also seen them break a lot of spiders. If you put a team primary on you either have to float your secondary or find someone that has an alignment bar for that set up. If I was in your shoes id buy a 15 jackshaft and team primary.

Side note it's a pain in the a $$ but you should be able to get those studs out of the shiv. Heat the tower it's stuck in with a torch and use a reverse drill bit.

 

[boondocker97]

The main advantage of the 2016-2017 Team primary is better durability over the previous cat clutch. The 2018 Team primary is designed to run with zero deflection so the response off the bottom end should be better. Downfalls of changing the primary to a newer style is you're going to need new weights, spring, and tuning again to get back to the setup you have, and newer primary is going to require a special offset to run with the old secondary too.

If I was in your shoes, this is what I'd do:
1. Try to drill out the studs (broken cover bolts?) and replace them in the clutch you have. This might be difficult to keep the bit straight so you don't get into the aluminum. If you can't get them out, I don't know if anyone sells the sliding sheave by itself, unless you have a donor clutch to steal it from. Then get to rebalance everything.
2. If no go on #1, then get a new/low mile used primary like you have.
3. If you can get a deal on a 16+ primary that will make it comparable in cost to option#2 with new weights, spring, and alignment bar, then do it.

 

[kiliki]

buy a new clutch off ebay for the style you have 300.00 if your not going to keep it very long or http://www.bd-xtreme.com/index.php?id_product=656&controller=product

 

[bgraff1]

The main advantage of the 2016-2017 Team primary is better durability over the previous cat clutch. The 2018 Team primary is designed to run with zero deflection so the response off the bottom end should be better. Downfalls of changing the primary to a newer style is you're going to need new weights, spring, and tuning again to get back to the setup you have, and newer primary is going to require a special offset to run with the old secondary too.

If I was in your shoes, this is what I'd do:
1. Try to drill out the studs (broken cover bolts?) and replace them in the clutch you have. This might be difficult to keep the bit straight so you don't get into the aluminum. If you can't get them out, I don't know if anyone sells the sliding sheave by itself, unless you have a donor clutch to steal it from. Then get to rebalance everything.
2. If no go on #1, then get a new/low mile used primary like you have.
3. If you can get a deal on a 16+ primary that will make it comparable in cost to option#2 with new weights, spring, and alignment bar, then do it.

I tried to remove the studs with no success. I do have a donor clutch out of a 1100 that I can steal that part from. was hoping to just use the whole clutch but the taper and non movable shive are different. this is by far the cheapest route. I do have access to a 2016 complete primary/secondary with updated jackshaft for 800$. just trying to decide if the 800 is really going to be worth the upgrade. my original clutch lasted the last 6 seasons with only one rebuild and the secondary has been fine since it was replaced under warranty

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Don't change them.
Get a 911 clutch cover and the secondary worked over by mountain valley in CODY, WY

The old style actually pulls harder when working right.

By a long way, The 16 wouldn't even keep up or the 18 with my 14 in a climb. Even with a guy over 50lbs lighter.

I'm going back to a old secondary, the primary I think will work fine though.

 

[Tyman212]

Don't change them.

Get a 911 clutch cover and the secondary worked over by mountain valley in CODY, WY



The old style actually pulls harder when working right.



By a long way, The 16 wouldn't even keep up or the 18 with my 14 in a climb. Even with a guy over 50lbs lighter.



I'm going back to a old secondary, the primary I think will work fine though.

What are your thoughts on the team tied vs the 15 secondary?


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[bgraff1]

Well for an update I got a used 2013 primary with CPC weights, a 2015 primary with 911 cover and big dawg (I think 91g, be to heavy for me) weights and a 2015 big fin secondary with stm helix all for $300. Toss my MDS weights in the new 2015 primary with 911 cover and pit the new 2015 secondary on and keep the rest as spares

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Get the secondary machined

 

[bgraff1]

Wyo, what do they do when they machine the secondary? I just read through an old thread of MVM that you were commenting on a lot and I see its the faces they are changing the angle on so the belt wears properly, makes sense. now the title of that thread was 2012/2013 clutches, did AC smarten up and fix the secondarys in 14/15 or are they the same and that thread was just that old? Also the stm helix that came in the new secondary is a 36/40. Will I be better off with the straight 36 that I already have or run the new 36/40. I ride 6k+ mountains

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Had worse issue with 14-15, they all need it!
It's more than just the sheeve change.
Its also MVMS NOT mvm. As in "mountain valley motor sports" in Cody, Wy not "mountain valley machine" in Utah.