raptor shocks...sag
- Thread starter racert17
- Start date
i have the spring upgrade kit on my 13 and i have the same sag with it, seems like a lot but it rides good so i havent worried about it
R
RPS
Well-known member
RPS
I thought I might be able to clear this up some.
We use a couple different terms to explain sag.
1) Free sag.
This is the amount of sag usually measured at the rear bumper without a rider on the vehicle.
It’s the distance from the floor to the rear bumper as the sled sits without a rider and then the distance to the floor as someone is lifting the rear bumper to take the load off the suspension. Simply subtract these two numbers and you have your free sag measurement.
2) SAG (AKA: droop, ride in...the list goes on)
They all mean the same thing it’s the amount of travel used to hold the vehicle at a given height with the rider sitting on the seat.
At Raptor we usually use about 25-30% of the vehicles overall travel in ride in. This isn’t always the case but we always start here and work both ways until we’re satisfied with the ride quality or other key metrics that we’re looking for one being how much the vehicle transfers weight under acceleration.
As many know shocks do nothing to hold the vehicle up there sole purpose is to control the movement of a given event. However it’s up to the springs to hold the vehicle at a given ride height and if you want to change the ride height simply turn more preload into the springs to achieve your desired height.
We find it difficult for people to measure ride in accurately and if you’re doing this correctly it needs to be done on a flat surface like your shop floor. We find people trying to do this on the trail with their skis on a six inch whoop and nothing under the center shock and wonder why they have too much sag at the rear bumper??
We’ve started to go away from this sag measurement some and have people measure the installed length of their springs and make adjustments based on how the sled acts and feels and adjust the springs accordingly.
We could tell everyone to set their sag at X but it’s such a generic number that we don’t want people to be pigeon-holed to that dimension.
A lot of snowmobilers think of sag as a bad thing but it’s quite the contrary most correctly working systems have a given amount designed in to their products and I think the bigger thing at the end of the day is understanding what it is, why it’s there and how to take small steps at adjusting it either way.
I hope this helps and as always let us know if you have more questions on this topic or others like it.
Thanks RPS
.
I thought I might be able to clear this up some.
We use a couple different terms to explain sag.
1) Free sag.
This is the amount of sag usually measured at the rear bumper without a rider on the vehicle.
It’s the distance from the floor to the rear bumper as the sled sits without a rider and then the distance to the floor as someone is lifting the rear bumper to take the load off the suspension. Simply subtract these two numbers and you have your free sag measurement.
2) SAG (AKA: droop, ride in...the list goes on)
They all mean the same thing it’s the amount of travel used to hold the vehicle at a given height with the rider sitting on the seat.
At Raptor we usually use about 25-30% of the vehicles overall travel in ride in. This isn’t always the case but we always start here and work both ways until we’re satisfied with the ride quality or other key metrics that we’re looking for one being how much the vehicle transfers weight under acceleration.
As many know shocks do nothing to hold the vehicle up there sole purpose is to control the movement of a given event. However it’s up to the springs to hold the vehicle at a given ride height and if you want to change the ride height simply turn more preload into the springs to achieve your desired height.
We find it difficult for people to measure ride in accurately and if you’re doing this correctly it needs to be done on a flat surface like your shop floor. We find people trying to do this on the trail with their skis on a six inch whoop and nothing under the center shock and wonder why they have too much sag at the rear bumper??
We’ve started to go away from this sag measurement some and have people measure the installed length of their springs and make adjustments based on how the sled acts and feels and adjust the springs accordingly.
We could tell everyone to set their sag at X but it’s such a generic number that we don’t want people to be pigeon-holed to that dimension.
A lot of snowmobilers think of sag as a bad thing but it’s quite the contrary most correctly working systems have a given amount designed in to their products and I think the bigger thing at the end of the day is understanding what it is, why it’s there and how to take small steps at adjusting it either way.
I hope this helps and as always let us know if you have more questions on this topic or others like it.
Thanks RPS
.
Last edited by a moderator:
I have a question Jake.
I have a stock Pro 163" 2013 with your spring kit installed. I have rear spring set to about 9.75". I am 200 lbs even first thing in the morning, naked as a jaybird. So i am probably 225lbs fully suited with my avy bag. I think my sled still sags a little too much, but it works fantastic in the deep. My only concern is that I continue to bottom out frequently. It's not horrible, but I can pretty much bottom at will off whoops on the trail or when hitting a drop off 10ft or more. Is this a shock issue or do I need the next stiffer spring? How tight can I preload your spring before I run in to coil binding?
Appreciate the help.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I have a stock Pro 163" 2013 with your spring kit installed. I have rear spring set to about 9.75". I am 200 lbs even first thing in the morning, naked as a jaybird. So i am probably 225lbs fully suited with my avy bag. I think my sled still sags a little too much, but it works fantastic in the deep. My only concern is that I continue to bottom out frequently. It's not horrible, but I can pretty much bottom at will off whoops on the trail or when hitting a drop off 10ft or more. Is this a shock issue or do I need the next stiffer spring? How tight can I preload your spring before I run in to coil binding?
Appreciate the help.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
R
RPS
Well-known member
Yes to both of your questions.
The shocks need some help but they are what they are and by not having any adjustability it’s a crap shoot as to whether you will like what you get after having someone revalve them?
As far as your spring you can safely take it to 9.5” installed height without overstressing the wire any more than this you will start seeing the spring take a set.
Don’t be freaked out by this our springs won’t coil bind at this deflection but what happens is they exceed the stress limit that is designed into them and if you go over that they will get shorter and shorter until they find a happy place again.
So in a nut shell you start out with a spring that’s 11.0” in free length and after you over stress it it’s going to end up at 10.75” or maybe even 10.5” in free length rest assured nothing is going to blow up or overstress any other components.
All this being said adjust to an installed height of 9.5” and see what you think if it’s not all that and a bag of chips call us and we’ll send you out a firm kit.
Hope this helps.
Thanks RPS
The shocks need some help but they are what they are and by not having any adjustability it’s a crap shoot as to whether you will like what you get after having someone revalve them?
As far as your spring you can safely take it to 9.5” installed height without overstressing the wire any more than this you will start seeing the spring take a set.
Don’t be freaked out by this our springs won’t coil bind at this deflection but what happens is they exceed the stress limit that is designed into them and if you go over that they will get shorter and shorter until they find a happy place again.
So in a nut shell you start out with a spring that’s 11.0” in free length and after you over stress it it’s going to end up at 10.75” or maybe even 10.5” in free length rest assured nothing is going to blow up or overstress any other components.
All this being said adjust to an installed height of 9.5” and see what you think if it’s not all that and a bag of chips call us and we’ll send you out a firm kit.
Hope this helps.
Thanks RPS
Last edited by a moderator:
S
snobyrd
Well-known member
Jake, just a suggestion, a helpful tool would be some video clips showing different sinarios, demonstrating a problem and you correcting the problem, everybody's way of interpting something on paper could be different in the real world, with vid it's clear cut, plus it could save u a lot of time answering questions all day and be good advertising as well. We all learn in different manners and you can't go wrong with vid. Jmo
Tks
Jeff
Your post confused me. You tightened your track and tuned out sag? or loosened it? I can't imagine this a good way to remove sag as it would be adding in another stiffening agent into the suspension equation. Plus I've always been taught you should as loose as possible before you ratchet.
S
snobyrd
Well-known member
Read your manual regarding track tension, everything u ever heard or thought forget about it.
X2. Tighten the track to remove the sag. My track was rachetting and it had about 4" of sag. I tightened up the track to fix the rachetting and also the suspension sagged less as well. I tightened the jacking bolts 1 full turn and it took 3/4" sag out of the suspension.
Tightening the track puts pressure on the spring, which compresses a bit. Just like adding preload. New Poo tracks stretch a LOT. and the make strange noises when they are loose at all.
