Q's about the Rb3 on a built apex.

[Polarisrocks]

I am trying to get the throttle responce back after turning the boost up to 20 and having to run more race gas. What I want back is the sleds ability to respond quicker after a let off and stab on the hill while climbing at 60mph. The sled stumbles for a few seconds.

Who has one and what are the pro's and cons of this box?
Is there any kind of warranties?
Who has tried other boxes and have switched.
I would like to here some testimonials about the changes/improvements.

Thanks Jim

 

[EZmoney]

I am trying to get the throttle responce back after turning the boost up to 20 and having to run more race gas. What I want back is the sleds ability to respond quicker after a let off and stab on the hill while climbing at 60mph. The sled stumbles for a few seconds.

Who has one and what are the pro's and cons of this box?
Is there any kind of warranties?
Who has tried other boxes and have switched.
I would like to here some testimonials about the changes/improvements.

Thanks Jim

As far as the rb3 i would hold off until more guys have played with it some more.What box are you running now? If i remember right you bought ultra lord sled? I run the pl box with alpines program and runs clean no stumbles, I would bet you could tune your stumble out with clutching and set up on the box until some one has a good map for us with the rb3 box.

 

[mattymac]

As far as the rb3 i would hold off until more guys have played with it some more.What box are you running now? If i remember right you bought ultra lord sled? I run the pl box with alpines program and runs clean no stumbles, I would bet you could tune your stumble out with clutching and set up on the box until some one has a good map for us with the rb3 box.

The RB3 is programmed to run from dave for his kits right now, hes working on other maps but it has the ability to run pretty much anything out there from my understanding, with the proper map of course.

Arent you runnin a BD kit on it??? Does it have secondary injectors?

 

[Duke]

I am trying to get the throttle responce back after turning the boost up to 20 and having to run more race gas. What I want back is the sleds ability to respond quicker after a let off and stab on the hill while climbing at 60mph. The sled stumbles for a few seconds.

Who has one and what are the pro's and cons of this box?
Is there any kind of warranties?
Who has tried other boxes and have switched.
I would like to here some testimonials about the changes/improvements.

Thanks Jim

I had zero issues with mine all last season, other than minor tuning. Its best to create your own starting point on the Dyno, then make minor adjustments when needed on the hill or at the parking lot. You can now order whats called Blue Bike software, allows you to make fuel adjustments via a PDA. A buddy picked up the Blue Bike software to use with a PDA on the hill and I got the full pro software.

The biggest advantage is the ability to change timing, more expensive but worth it in my opinion. Just make sure you buy one mapped from someone reputable that has run on your given application. No two sleds are the same.

Disadvantage would be the cost, $ 700.00 to $ 800.00 for the box and X $$$ for your laptop or PDA for tuning. Can cost $$$ for different software too. There is cheaper software and cable that allows you to make 10% adjustments with a laptop or PC. $ 40.00

Time and patience is needed, I was lucky to have my own personal sled dynoed by Mitch at Synergy.
There are some decent maps out there for the Apex's running bigger boost, I cant comment on the Nytro though. Good Luck !!

 

[EZmoney]

The RB3 is programmed to run from dave for his kits right now, hes working on other maps but it has the ability to run pretty much anything out there from my understanding, with the proper map of course.

Arent you runnin a BD kit on it??? Does it have secondary injectors?

Ya i talked with Dave a while back,he has spent some time working with the rb3 box and says he has it working good with his kit.But im still going to wait a while. The rb3 can run with any kit, with the proper map your right, it was not originally designed for a sled. It was made in Italy for their sport bikes.I should get one of my cousins to price them out over there. I think your going to see the rb3 out on alot of kits soon Matty. I am running a Bd kit and have had good luck with it no heat issues and really happy with the power and response and sounds like a beast And if this rb3 works as good as they say it should be interesting to see how much better it goes.As far as injectors go i have stock injectors and you do not run secondary injectors on the apex only nitro.

 

[Polarisrocks]

I did buy ultra lords sled. There was some tinkering that had to be done to make 20 lbs. It was trial and error on my part trying to diagnose what the problem(s) was. After I was able to turn the boost up I needed to adjust the pure logic box to keep the C0's where they should be. I was only able to ride it 5 times after buying it. All five times was tuning and playing with that box to try to get it right. I have tried several box settings from other guys who ride the same set up and they all worked, but not awesome. What I found is that I had an incredible top end but, but lousy responce on and off even in the trees. I did finally get some instruction to adjust my co trim to -25 in the factory computer. I didnt get a chance to get out and try that. It did seem to make a difference in the shop. I guess from what I read it sounded like there was alot of boxes out and that they were really making a difference. I talked to outlaw and they gave me the i duno about that box yet on the phone. I guess what bummes me out is I let several buddies ride it and they said wow to the top end, but were dissapointed at the throttle rresponce. Now when I had the boost turned down to 13-14 it was better. Should I be changing the secondary spring, rotation, winding it tighter for more boost?? Thats the one thing I didnt mess with. I have the shock wave 1.5 turns out and I have a snow pro green spring in 1 and 0. I am good with tuning a 2 stroke, but this 4 stroke + boost is way out of my league. What I think would be helpfull is getting out this next year with someone who has had some hours tuning these sleds. i'll buy all the beer all weekend

 

[Duke]

I did buy ultra lords sled. There was some tinkering that had to be done to make 20 lbs. It was trial and error on my part trying to diagnose what the problem(s) was. After I was able to turn the boost up I needed to adjust the pure logic box to keep the C0's where they should be. I was only able to ride it 5 times after buying it. All five times was tuning and playing with that box to try to get it right. I have tried several box settings from other guys who ride the same set up and they all worked, but not awesome. What I found is that I had an incredible top end but, but lousy responce on and off even in the trees. I did finally get some instruction to adjust my co trim to -25 in the factory computer. I didnt get a chance to get out and try that. It did seem to make a difference in the shop. I guess from what I read it sounded like there was alot of boxes out and that they were really making a difference. I talked to outlaw and they gave me the i duno about that box yet on the phone. I guess what bummes me out is I let several buddies ride it and they said wow to the top end, but were dissapointed at the throttle rresponce. Now when I had the boost turned down to 13-14 it was better. Should I be changing the secondary spring, rotation, winding it tighter for more boost?? Thats the one thing I didnt mess with. I have the shock wave 1.5 turns out and I have a snow pro green spring in 1 and 0. I am good with tuning a 2 stroke, but this 4 stroke + boost is way out of my league. What I think would be helpfull is getting out this next year with someone who has had some hours tuning these sleds. i'll buy all the beer all weekend

I cant comment on the PL box, but you should run the purple cat secondary spring on 1 and 0. Set your helix at roughly 51 degrees(may have to play with that). Sounds like you need more weight, how much weight are you running? You should be running 90 + grams of weight, Im running 98 grams. What elevation do you ride at ?

 

[EZmoney]

I sent ya a pm but maybe a few of us can shoot ideas at you and help ya. Two turns out is 51 degrees with the shock wave,you want to start there with that. With my sled i run a turn and 1/2 or turn 3/4 so it doesnt hit the rev limmiter when conditions change or go up in boost for a quick fix. I run 86 grams of weight with Power Quest, two pucks in the toe,washers in centre and heal.Solid grey spring or stock yamaha spring. Fuel pressure is set at 36 pounds and co's are back at 0 with the new pl box i got from Alpine.I ride 1500 to 6000 feet as far as it goes for the box its pritty simple.

green "cruise" 1 to 2
yellow "accell sooner later" 1 to 2.5
red "main jet" you can turn this mode off and make up for it with the boost fuel, but i run mine at 2 to 2.5. If im down real low because i live at sea level ill put it on 4 to play safe
blue green" boost fuel' This is where you want to start out high and come down. I run mine between 3 to 4.5 just watch the ot gauge!! you want 12.5
yellow blue i leave on 4.5 always i never touch it
blue red "full throttle switch point" 5

I would like to hear where you had your box set and the other questions i pmd ya.

 

[WesG]

Stuff you've probably already been over...

Could try bumping the engagement up. You are only 80% of what the tach says at the clutch. Helps with the heavy ars weights you have to run at the higher boost levels. The CO's will help a tiny bit, but I don't beleive they are the cure. If it's at 60 mph an a hill(leads me to beleive its not the CO's), you should have virtually no lag when getting back on it. The 4's take a smoother throttle thumb than the 2's.

RB3 Pro's(I had a BD 28rs w/ a PL box from Dave F. now RB3)
-Vastly improved throttle response on the bottom.
-Plug and play, no splicing wires.
-Damn near unlimited tuning
-sled starts and runs cleaner (even with A/F not perfect...)

RB3 Con's
-Have not found a really good map for BD kits yet
-Has alot of tuning abilities. Could take awhile to get it perfect.
-$$$ for all the needed hook-ups. Blue bike, harness, module, map sensor.
-Need different maps for different boost. (No real time on mine to disprove this, just word of mouth info here)

I will not be going back to the PL unless the RB3 has water issues.

Wes

 

[Polarisrocks]

I have figured out how completely different these beasts are and how you apply the throttle. As far as cllutching I have super tips(60's) with 2 pucks heel, 5 pucks in mid and 2 washers in the tip with a blue white spring. I would like to get it set to run at 16- 18 and just leave it there. What I noticed was when the sled started it was lean and when it ran for 10 minutes it was super fat. I dont think I completely understood how that box workes. What it didnt get was the yellow blue light and the red blue light and what they did. And do ya want to the non boost lights low and the boost lights higher or vise versa. I think I just need more time on it. I have never heard of a purple cat spring. what rate is it. I dont think I ever hit the rev limiter unless I was at 24lbs. At 20 I could only get to 9800. I will get it right this fall, I just wondered if that rb3 was a good investment now over the summer? I just spent a fortune on the sled, I dont care about spending another 1k to improve it. I have two buddies that have stockers and are doing kits this summer, so I will be tech support for them.

 

[mattymac]

who's kits are your buddies gunna run jim?

 

[zebiraross]

I have figured out how completely different these beasts are and how you apply the throttle. As far as cllutching I have super tips(60's) with 2 pucks heel, 5 pucks in mid and 2 washers in the tip with a blue white spring. I would like to get it set to run at 16- 18 and just leave it there. What I noticed was when the sled started it was lean and when it ran for 10 minutes it was super fat. I dont think I completely understood how that box workes. What it didnt get was the yellow blue light and the red blue light and what they did. And do ya want to the non boost lights low and the boost lights higher or vise versa. I think I just need more time on it. I have never heard of a purple cat spring. what rate is it. I dont think I ever hit the rev limiter unless I was at 24lbs. At 20 I could only get to 9800. I will get it right this fall, I just wondered if that rb3 was a good investment now over the summer? I just spent a fortune on the sled, I dont care about spending another 1k to improve it. I have two buddies that have stockers and are doing kits this summer, so I will be tech support for them.

You look at green as pilot jet, yellow as needle/mid range, and red as main jet. Obviously green blue is for adding or taking away fuel under boost. The red/blue is where the green/blue will engage. I like to have it farily high, like 7 or so. You don't want to have it to low or you will start running extra fuel out of boost and you will go rich. Other way if you have it to high you will have a lean spot where it is trying to switch over. I like to run my green at the lowest setting, yellow at 3, red in the middle.

What helix do you have? Sounds like your weights are weighed ok. If I was you I would load the heel with a tungsten on each side, and about 8-10 grams total weight in the middle. 49-51 deg of helix. You should be running 10,500, 10,800 rpms. You will be very suprised going from 9800 to 10500. Good luck!

 

[zebiraross]

Sorry, looks like ryder covered a lot of what I said.

Another thing you should check for is exhaust leaks. A lot of time lag=exhaust leaks. If you run race gas they are easy to find because of the white lead residue a leak will leave behind. You also should check for boost leaks. You can have your box #'s perfect, clutching perfect, but if you have boost or exhaust leaks everything will be WAY off and you'll be chasing your tail all year.

 

[mattymac]

Sorry, looks like ryder covered a lot of what I said.

Another thing you should check for is exhaust leaks. A lot of time lag=exhaust leaks. If you run race gas they are easy to find because of the white lead residue a leak will leave behind. You also should check for boost leaks. You can have your box #'s perfect, clutching perfect, but if you have boost or exhaust leaks everything will be WAY off and you'll be chasing your tail all year.

Yeah sometimes if you turn the boost down your sled goes faster cause its not enough pressure to leak. Start with the basics to go fast.

 

[Polarisrocks]

Matty, My buddies are going boondocker 28's and the other might be going supercharger. Both of these guys want the quick throttle response and least amount of lag. I think they are on a buget, so they are shopping and counting on me to figure my kit out or they are going to look another way.

Zebros, I have the shock wave at 1.5 turns out. I also have the 2 tunsten in the heel, 5 washers in the middle and 2 washers in the tip. If I wanted a stiffer spring for the primary, what might be stiffer on engagement than the blue white blue??


I am going to start her up this weekend and see where the box is now, but i am sure that the red blue is 2.5 but i will check and see

thanks Jim

 

[zebiraross]

Matty, My buddies are going boondocker 28's and the other might be going supercharger. Both of these guys want the quick throttle response and least amount of lag. I think they are on a buget, so they are shopping and counting on me to figure my kit out or they are going to look another way.

Zebros, I have the shock wave at 1.5 turns out. I also have the 2 tunsten in the heel, 5 washers in the middle and 2 washers in the tip. If I wanted a stiffer spring for the primary, what might be stiffer on engagement than the blue white blue??


I am going to start her up this weekend and see where the box is now, but i am sure that the red blue is 2.5 but i will check and see

thanks Jim

I would stick with the blue white blue. I used that spring on my rx1ton and loved it.

 

[Polarisrocks]

On another thought, I think the turbo outlet pipe is only a 2 in? and it exits the inside the tunnel towards the drivers. I see a few guys on another site are making the down pipes alot larger and seeing good improvements. They are also saying that its neccesary above 200hp for less restriction. Could a guy add another down pipe to the pipe thats there and route it out the belly pan also?? I am just wondering if I'm gonna run 18lbs if its worth it, and will there be a difference in the seat of the pants dino.

 

[zebiraross]

I made a 2.5" exhaust on my old Boondocker kit that exited out the side pannel like a m sled. I also grinded out the turbine housing flange to about 2.5". Doing this will give you less back pressure, and less back pressure leads to higher horse power. The bad thing about the t25 baseed turbine housings is how poorly designed the exhaust outlet flange is. Basically the wastegate exhaust comes out, and slams against the flange, makes a 90 deg turn down to the exhaust outlet gas, makes another 90 deg turn then exits. It's basically a lot of turbulance that leads to more back pressure.

 

[Need for Speed 2]

Not if its a double down guys. Call Dave at Powder Lites he is the guy who can cure the exhaust problems a higher boost levels

 

[zebiraross]

He has a Boondocker kit. Daves dd won't work.