powerhouse customs honda sled?

[shadow conspiracy]

anyone seen this thing yet? Have no info on it just seen it while I was checking out the tube chassis ProPex sleds they're building. Would like to see some more pics and some info on it.
http://powerhousecustoms.ca/who-are-we/

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Those things are FUGLY!

 

[Blown Motor]

That sled was custom built by Cpt. Ron on here, and to my knowledge it is a one off. Cbr motor on boost. Runs well, but notice all the Poo 900 parts on it haha, it still lives!!

 

[PJ-Hunter]

I'm sure it runs like a striped aped but it looks like something out of a Mad Max vehicle.

 

[Cpt.Ron]

The Honda

anyone seen this thing yet? Have no info on it just seen it while I was checking out the tube chassis ProPex sleds they're building. Would like to see some more pics and some info on it.
http://powerhousecustoms.ca/who-are-we/

No Shadow conspiracy here, haha.

Three seasons on the Honda now. The concept was born out the desire to try and step away from CVT transmissions .We had often queried the scenario, ..so we eventually built the Honda. The engine is a 1000 CBR-R engine from their road race bike platform. We designed and built a custom stub shaft that fits on the splined transmission output shaft, which in turn drives the 630 sprocket/chain to a custom driveshaft.

Shifting is handled by a push button "Klicktronic" electric shifter out of the UK.

Garrett turbo, running 6 lbs as a rule.

Fuel system is the stock Honda two stage system with 8 injectors, complemented by the "Boost It" fuel system, which supplies the requirements when under Boost, total of 12 injectors for those counting.

While the Honda is a fun sled and I ride it every weekend, we quickly realised that it is not the ticket to belt freedom. There is really too much going on out there to be shifting gears while riding. Obviously there is a clutch lever on the left side bar, with a brake lever on the right. The sled was a prototype and may continue to get some refinements but we learned what we needed to know, as such we long since moved on.

Again, I ride it every weekend and very much enjoy the sled, it has good power and is very manuverable, but definately not up there with the power and performance of a boosted Yamaha!! Particularly one in our custom tube chassis!!

 

[Cpt.Ron]

haha....

That sled was custom built by Cpt. Ron on here, and to my knowledge it is a one off. Cbr motor on boost. Runs well, but notice all the Poo 900 parts on it haha, it still lives!!

How astute of you to notice! Yes indeed, the donor sled for this project was non other than my old "high miler", my trusty 05 900 RMK. That sled had over 10,600 miles on it when the engine expired. I had always like the front suspension, so it seemed like the logical choice for a donor chassis. The rear skid is stock Polaris RMK, I rebuild all the shocks every season. That track must have over 15,000 miles on it by now!!!

Yes... it still alive!! or parts of it, lol!

 

[triple Black]

Here are a couple more pics.

 

[89sandman]

you posted shifting was not the way to go, was it more the hassle of having to shift or the loss of momentum when shifting that caused the greatest problem?

 

[Cpt.Ron]

shifting

you posted shifting was not the way to go, was it more the hassle of having to shift or the loss of momentum when shifting that caused the greatest problem?

Both the inconvience or awkwardness of trying to shift, as well as the fact that there is a huge increase in rolling resistance with a track versus a rolling wheel. The track is slowing instantly which does not allow for a smooth quick upshift under load.

I only use the clutch for starting off and stopping, after that, the Klicktronic shifter, which is rated as the fastest bike shifter available, will force the gear change providing that the rpm window is within an allowable tolerance for the ratio change, up or down. However, the resistance from the track makes it difficult to get the gear all the way home, such that it will jump out of gear under load and instantly be bouncing off the rev limiter. Best results are to preselect the gear for the pull. Feeling the shift button with your thumb, with gloves on, looking for that perfect shift isn't easy.

On the trail, the gear changes are casual and in fact easy, the Honda is whole lot of fun on a groomed trail, ...****when it is safe to stretch it's legs**** Pulls third gear wheelies at way too fast of speeds!!!

It has some other unique characteristics, using the engine as a brake coming down steep hills is a bonus, as is the option of bump starting, which I have done many times , haha.

 

[shadow conspiracy]

Thanks for the info. I just spent the weekend in Revy, I wish I woulda stopped by your shop.

 

[Blown Motor]

How astute of you to notice! Yes indeed, the donor sled for this project was non other than my old "high miler", my trusty 05 900 RMK. That sled had over 10,600 miles on it when the engine expired. I had always like the front suspension, so it seemed like the logical choice for a donor chassis. The rear skid is stock Polaris RMK, I rebuild all the shocks every season. That track must have over 15,000 miles on it by now!!!

Yes... it still alive!! or parts of it, lol!

Haha I too liked my 900, one of the sick ones I suppose. Even turbo'd one, or ran a turbo for a season. Still miss that torque in the tight tight trees!

 

[94fordguy]

How astute of you to notice! Yes indeed, the donor sled for this project was non other than my old "high miler", my trusty 05 900 RMK. That sled had over 10,600 miles on it when the engine expired. I had always like the front suspension, so it seemed like the logical choice for a donor chassis. The rear skid is stock Polaris RMK, I rebuild all the shocks every season. That track must have over 15,000 miles on it by now!!!

Yes... it still alive!! or parts of it, lol!

Wow, now that's cool!!! I don't have that many miles on mine yet, but I'm working on it... there's just something about the torque of a 900

 

[Coldfinger]

How do you think the relatively new VFR engine would work? I think it has completely automatic shifting if you choose.

From Honda.com:
But perhaps most striking is the VFR’s Honda Dual-Clutch Automatic Transmission: Six speeds, two clutches, and your choice of changing gears with a pair of F1-style paddle shifters or letting the bike shift itself. And there’s also a second version of the VFR1200F equipped with a conventional six-speed gearbox and a slipper clutch.

 

[Cpt.Ron]

read my mind...

How do you think the relatively new VFR engine would work? I think it has completely automatic shifting if you choose.

From Honda.com:
But perhaps most striking is the VFR’s Honda Dual-Clutch Automatic Transmission: Six speeds, two clutches, and your choice of changing gears with a pair of F1-style paddle shifters or letting the bike shift itself. And there’s also a second version of the VFR1200F equipped with a conventional six-speed gearbox and a slipper clutch.

You pretty much read my mind when I saw this technology released from Honda. I studied this set up closely and think that it would be the answer to the shifting problems. In fact, I think it would be a hot damn set up!! May still be some situations when one would miss the simplicity of the CVT.

One of the underlying, yet main reasons for our contemplating the standard transmission versus a CVT, is the effiecency!!! A well setup CVT in an ideal point of shift is around 75%, while a standard transmission is around 95%, ..putting alot more horsepower to the track. That is the optimum on a CVT, it only gets worse from there, throw in heat, mis-alignment issues, and the fact that a CVT is at premium effiecency around mid point of shift out, less effeciant at both low and high shift out.......

The dual clutch technology would be worthy of another project, ..but dont get me started....haha

 

[ndC7M8]

I've read a belt drive CVT is around 86% efficient, which sounds a lot better than 75%, And a manual is around 98%. Now I don't know enough about them, and thats why I'm asking, is it possible to make a full torroidal cvt small enough, yet strong enough to utilize in small engine applications, like bikes or sleds? If so, I'm guessing the technology and manufacturing costs would be incredible. Just a thought. Cool post, and I'm curious.

 

[Cpt.Ron]

CVT's

I've read a belt drive CVT is around 86% efficient, which sounds a lot better than 75%, And a manual is around 98%. Now I don't know enough about them, and thats why I'm asking, is it possible to make a full torroidal cvt small enough, yet strong enough to utilize in small engine applications, like bikes or sleds? If so, I'm guessing the technology and manufacturing costs would be incredible. Just a thought. Cool post, and I'm curious.

My info regarding CVT effiecency could be dated, however, it was directly related to snowmobile applications, not CVT's in general as they are used in a multitude of applications these days, including automobiles.

The 75% effiecency that I eluded to is also an optimum, it is much less at early engagement and full shift out.

The source of my info was complied by an old guru by the name of Aaen, referring to race sled clutching set ups. A great resource of info.

 

[ndC7M8]

My info regarding CVT effiecency could be dated, however, it was directly related to snowmobile applications, not CVT's in general as they are used in a multitude of applications these days, including automobiles.

The 75% effiecency that I eluded to is also an optimum, it is much less at early engagement and full shift out.

The source of my info was complied by an old guru by the name of Aaen, referring to race sled clutching set ups. A great resource of info.

I've actually got a book on clutching by Olav Aaen somewhere tucked away that I always forget about and never get read lol

 

[TimG]

Does shifting on the hill work better if you do use the clutch? I know with an MX bike, climbing in sand, it's advantageous to use the clutch when upshifting. Regular riding seems like 6 of one, half-dozen of the other (clutching to shift or not), but hillclimbing, with a paddle, I find myself giving the clutch a quick feather to shift because you can't afford a missed shift. I know a track has way more drag than a paddle tire, so it would seem that clutching would be even more important in that scenario.

I would love to see this sled. Often thought about how great a sled with a gearbox would be. To me, clutches are the bane of snowmobiling.

 

[Cpt.Ron]

Shifting

Does shifting on the hill work better if you do use the clutch? I know with an MX bike, climbing in sand, it's advantageous to use the clutch when upshifting. Regular riding seems like 6 of one, half-dozen of the other (clutching to shift or not), but hillclimbing, with a paddle, I find myself giving the clutch a quick feather to shift because you can't afford a missed shift. I know a track has way more drag than a paddle tire, so it would seem that clutching would be even more important in that scenario.

I would love to see this sled. Often thought about how great a sled with a gearbox would be. To me, clutches are the bane of snowmobiling.

You are on the right track, definately a quick pull of the clutch lever ensures that the gears seat home and won't jump out. The only problem with this is the praticality of it, ...when climbing something under Boost, it is pulling hard, stuff is happening fast, ...keeping a thumb poised over the shifter buttons, keeping a one finger grip on the bar and pulling the clutch with the remaining three fingers gets a little awkward!! haha But you are right.

That was why we built this project, as we thought there had to be something better than the CVT, ....I would love to try the Honda dual Clutch technology, but I just don't seem to get the time for any new developement projects.

 

[TimG]

Thanks for the reply! How about a twist grip throttle? Then you could have the shifter on the right thumb while keeping the brake lever on the right as well. if you had the shifter control pivoting with the throttle, it might even be more convenient. This is very interesting to me because I was talking just last week to a buddy about trying to graft a street bike tranny to a sled engine. I'm a dirt biker, and it blows me away that a CR500 puts 60 hp to the rear wheel, and the Polaris Pro makes 70 at the track. There has got to be a better way.