Want to adjust my timing. Anyone running one? Would like some more details.
power commander V
- Thread starter Mseven
- Start date
V
Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
Going to a professional with the right tool to adjust timing is the only advice i have for you. You can make a lot of motor damages playing with timing.Timing is the most important feature on a 2 stroke motor....
They are to be relased 15 dec this year, so there's not many guys who had seat time with those yet.
Some updates on our PCV-CDI to control fuel and ignition on the Arctic Cats:
We have received our first production run of circuit boards. 3 of these units were installed on M8's and taken the mountains for a whole day of flogging last week....
Great news -- they ran flawlessly. Not a hiccup all day in over a foot of fresh snow. We tried everything to get them to stumble and miss a plug fire, but to no avail. Running dual EGT's showed us that we could retard timing on one cylinder and advance it on the other to see the cylinder advanced mapping capability tune independently. And it was very, VERY fun to isolate that mid range where the OEM ECU ramps the timing as the exhaust valves open which causes hot and lean operating....pulling a few degrees through this range makes these 2 Stroke Suzuki's much more rideable.
The Not so Great news -- the board house who creates our Printed circuit boards has installed two components incorrectly, and run a faulty trace. The boards which we ran on the sleds had to be reworked by us in house to make them run reliably, so all production boards have been sent back.
This means that the delivery date of December 15th is being pushed back while they fix the mistake for the time being. Apologies to any customers wishing to see this unit earlier.
~T.J.
We have received our first production run of circuit boards. 3 of these units were installed on M8's and taken the mountains for a whole day of flogging last week....
Great news -- they ran flawlessly. Not a hiccup all day in over a foot of fresh snow. We tried everything to get them to stumble and miss a plug fire, but to no avail. Running dual EGT's showed us that we could retard timing on one cylinder and advance it on the other to see the cylinder advanced mapping capability tune independently. And it was very, VERY fun to isolate that mid range where the OEM ECU ramps the timing as the exhaust valves open which causes hot and lean operating....pulling a few degrees through this range makes these 2 Stroke Suzuki's much more rideable.
The Not so Great news -- the board house who creates our Printed circuit boards has installed two components incorrectly, and run a faulty trace. The boards which we ran on the sleds had to be reworked by us in house to make them run reliably, so all production boards have been sent back.
This means that the delivery date of December 15th is being pushed back while they fix the mistake for the time being. Apologies to any customers wishing to see this unit earlier.
~T.J.
I
Insaneboltrounder/sjohns
Well-known member
Are these going to have the two maps that I've heard a bit about? I'm not a tuner but is there a way they will change timing with altitude? What gains will we see with the timing being adjustable ?
These new units will have the exact same look in the Customer Software as our fuel+ignition PCV's for the other powersports.
You will have one table for fueling, and one table for ignition timing. (Or advance this Map to have individual control over each cylinder) In the fuel table, Add up to 250% of fuel or subtract as much as -100% fuel.
Then, in the ignition table, you can advance up to +25* or retard as far as -25*. As always with PCV's, this will give control at specific conditions across the map based on RPM/TPS at 0, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100% throttle and from 500-9500RPM (if you can rev that high
) in either 500 or increase your precision to 250 RPM increments.
The two "Maps" capability I'm guessing you're referring to is most likely the two different Tables - one table being for Fuel and the other table for Ignition? These tables will be paired in the device, always together in the same Map - in the same enclosure.
Noteworthy, the PCV can store Two separate Maps (one for trail/one for trees) if you wish to install a map switch for toggling between them. This is also useful for nitrous applications where the momentary switch also couples in to switch the PCV map to add fuel when spraying nitrous.
There is a way to make timing change with altitude. This would require some other equipment to make this happen - but you can do it using the 0-5V analog available on the expansion strip of the PCV.
-An absolute pressure sensor having 0-5 output would be necessary and installed under your hood as a barometric reference...
-Run the signal of that sensor into the 0-5V analog hole...
-Set up the pressure transfer function (XX Pressure = XX Volts) for that particular sensor inside the PCV...
-Create a pressure table with appropriate columns (i.e.: 14.7PSIa = sea level, 12.5PSIa = 4500feet, 10PSIa = 10,500feet)...
-Create your timing(pressure) table to make timing changes per PSIa column corresponding to the elevation you are riding at.
The gains with timing being adjustable are numerous.
-The classic "hot mid-range" that these Arctic Cat's have can be retarded to bring down EGT temps making the machine more rideable.
-The fixed 3* flywheel Key won't be your limitation -- making your bottom end sluggish or the top end too hot.
-HP gains will come at the hands of kit builders and which modifications they feel are worthwhile. A pipe + intake + adding some timing might make for a better combination (rather than just the pipe+intake)
Thanks Everyone!
~T.J.
You will have one table for fueling, and one table for ignition timing. (Or advance this Map to have individual control over each cylinder) In the fuel table, Add up to 250% of fuel or subtract as much as -100% fuel.
Then, in the ignition table, you can advance up to +25* or retard as far as -25*. As always with PCV's, this will give control at specific conditions across the map based on RPM/TPS at 0, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100% throttle and from 500-9500RPM (if you can rev that high
) in either 500 or increase your precision to 250 RPM increments. The two "Maps" capability I'm guessing you're referring to is most likely the two different Tables - one table being for Fuel and the other table for Ignition? These tables will be paired in the device, always together in the same Map - in the same enclosure.
Noteworthy, the PCV can store Two separate Maps (one for trail/one for trees) if you wish to install a map switch for toggling between them. This is also useful for nitrous applications where the momentary switch also couples in to switch the PCV map to add fuel when spraying nitrous.
There is a way to make timing change with altitude. This would require some other equipment to make this happen - but you can do it using the 0-5V analog available on the expansion strip of the PCV.
-An absolute pressure sensor having 0-5 output would be necessary and installed under your hood as a barometric reference...
-Run the signal of that sensor into the 0-5V analog hole...
-Set up the pressure transfer function (XX Pressure = XX Volts) for that particular sensor inside the PCV...
-Create a pressure table with appropriate columns (i.e.: 14.7PSIa = sea level, 12.5PSIa = 4500feet, 10PSIa = 10,500feet)...
-Create your timing(pressure) table to make timing changes per PSIa column corresponding to the elevation you are riding at.
The gains with timing being adjustable are numerous.
-The classic "hot mid-range" that these Arctic Cat's have can be retarded to bring down EGT temps making the machine more rideable.
-The fixed 3* flywheel Key won't be your limitation -- making your bottom end sluggish or the top end too hot.
-HP gains will come at the hands of kit builders and which modifications they feel are worthwhile. A pipe + intake + adding some timing might make for a better combination (rather than just the pipe+intake)
Thanks Everyone!
~T.J.
Thats funny that Dyno says there will be ignition adjustment in the new PCV. I just talked to them today and was asking questions and the guy on phone said the PCV does not have it. This was for a 2012 M800. Maybe I am not talking apples to apples. Maybe Dyno with chime in and correct me.
Aaron
Aaron
C
camata
New member
Officially they don't.
I would consider that the best answer to your questions, since it hasn't hit the market yet.
This is the perfect answer. Took the words right off my keyboard....
The prior problematic circuitry issues have been corrected. Take note -- PCV-CDI is coming this season for your 2007-2013 Arctic Cat M8/M1000!!
Please do elaberate!
So does anyone know if the NEW pcv-pti will include timing adjustment capabilities. I am completely confused. I specifically asked the guy on the phone if the NEW version for my sled would have timing adjustment and he said no.
Aaron
Aaron
The new controller WILL allow timing adjustments.
C
camata
New member
I'm just curious:
Will one have to advance the timing mechanically with like a 5 degree timing key and then retard the timing with 5 degrees in the PCV, and then have the default timing at the whole RPM range?
Otherwise the PCV wouldn't be able to advance timing, but only retard?
A certain ppiggyback device can't tell when something mechanical happens, before it happens - sort of speaking.
Will one have to advance the timing mechanically with like a 5 degree timing key and then retard the timing with 5 degrees in the PCV, and then have the default timing at the whole RPM range?
Otherwise the PCV wouldn't be able to advance timing, but only retard?
A certain ppiggyback device can't tell when something mechanical happens, before it happens - sort of speaking.
CarbonWerx,
The device you inquired about is the PCV-PTI. (PTI = Pressure/Temperature Input) This is a unit released late last summer targeting the turbo sleds by perfecting Dynojet's fueling for Boost on 2 Stroke applications.
Part Numbers for these 2 devices are:
11-004 = 2007-2013 M8/M1000 == Standard Fuel Only control
11-004-PTI = 2007-2013 M8/M1000 == Fuel Only Control Also with BOOST via TMAP sensors.
The Ignition control unit is the PCV-CDI. This is not released yet.
It will be Part Number 11-013.
We have not incorporated a TMAP sensor directly onto the harness of this new unit just yet. We want to achieve our desired results for N/A sleds first. All of our products follow this path of development.
camata,
The PCV will Not need a mechanical device to advance the timing. The whole operating RPM range will be available for users to retard/advance timing 20 degrees without the use of a key.
Regards,
~T.J.
The device you inquired about is the PCV-PTI. (PTI = Pressure/Temperature Input) This is a unit released late last summer targeting the turbo sleds by perfecting Dynojet's fueling for Boost on 2 Stroke applications.
Part Numbers for these 2 devices are:
11-004 = 2007-2013 M8/M1000 == Standard Fuel Only control
11-004-PTI = 2007-2013 M8/M1000 == Fuel Only Control Also with BOOST via TMAP sensors.
The Ignition control unit is the PCV-CDI. This is not released yet.
It will be Part Number 11-013.
We have not incorporated a TMAP sensor directly onto the harness of this new unit just yet. We want to achieve our desired results for N/A sleds first. All of our products follow this path of development.
camata,
The PCV will Not need a mechanical device to advance the timing. The whole operating RPM range will be available for users to retard/advance timing 20 degrees without the use of a key.
Regards,
~T.J.
Thanks for the info. So maybe by next season you will have the ignition timing on the PTI. I am new to the turbo scene and maybe I am just nieve but wouldn't it be super beneficial to have the adjustable ignition on a turbo sled? Or is it not that big of a deal to just run a key? I doubt I will run a turbo till next season but plan on getting piped this season and would like to try and use the same box so I don't have to buy it twice.
Thanks for being patient with an FNG
Thanks for being patient with an FNG
You are very correct that having control of the ignition on a turbo sled does add great benefits. Being able to pull timing on the top end can decrease detonation possibility (albeit for a limited length of time), or adding some timing on the bottom end can speed the machine through a pesky stumble at low RPM. Our goal with the PCV having ignition control on these Arctic Cat's was to give people the freedom to advance/retard at their own wishes - without being limited to a set degree at a set RPM range. The ignition table will have the same format as a normal PCV fuel table making every RPM range and every throttle position available for tuning.
Running a key only has single-ended benefits by either overly retarding the bottom end to be safe on top in turbo application, or trying to advance the bottom/top for more power too much thus drastically accelerating EGT temps in the mid range leaving the engine vulnerable to damage.
And yes - our normal product flow would be to add the Boost friendly leg of our harness into the PCV After deeming the initial PCV-CDI a success in the hands of customers.
For those familiar with the workings of a PCV, there will still be a 0-5V channel available on the expansion strip of the PCV-CDI to pipe in the analog signal from the water temp/air temp/pressure transducer for individuals who wish to jump ahead in their turbo projects.
~T.J.
Running a key only has single-ended benefits by either overly retarding the bottom end to be safe on top in turbo application, or trying to advance the bottom/top for more power too much thus drastically accelerating EGT temps in the mid range leaving the engine vulnerable to damage.
And yes - our normal product flow would be to add the Boost friendly leg of our harness into the PCV After deeming the initial PCV-CDI a success in the hands of customers.
For those familiar with the workings of a PCV, there will still be a 0-5V channel available on the expansion strip of the PCV-CDI to pipe in the analog signal from the water temp/air temp/pressure transducer for individuals who wish to jump ahead in their turbo projects.
~T.J.
