not sure if anyone else noticed it but the day mine went down I noticed that it was a bit harder to start than I had remembered... It felt more like trying to start in my garage in low elevation ~1200 ft but I was at 8000 ft +
Polaris Letter
- Thread starter polaris_guy13
- Start date
not sure if anyone else noticed it but the day mine went down I noticed that it was a bit harder to start than I had remembered... It felt more like trying to start in my garage in low elevation ~1200 ft but I was at 8000 ft +
2 rides ago I try and start mine and I can't hardly pull the rope (2500') I cycle it a few times and then pull plugs. Cycle it with plugs out a few times and with plugs back in a still can hardly pull it. I think maybe I have a crap load of water and the pistons are frozen (Heck if I know) so start blowing warm air into airbox while cycling (pulling rope). Still no go so do all the crap over again and still nothing. Changed plugs and the whole cycle over again twice and bam......she starts and runs like a champ all day (3500-6000'). Next ride starts right up and runs like a champ all day again (both days 6hrs of full throttle....5mpg). Afraid to pull the valves and check pistons. I have the nasty mid range bog as well. Just going to ride with tow rope and hope she don't go TU. Just before Jan 2010 (warranty ends) i will take her back in and get all the updates, that is ofcourse unless they have the miracle fix done by then or replace the engine as someone posted before (highly doubt that would happen). I tell everyone I know that is thinking about buying a sled to hold off on the Polaris, If they are dead set on buying now I tell them Cat (that includes ATV's and UTV's).
I don't see how this is any different than 08. They said the same kind of crap then. Oh, we will surely have it fixed for 09, we know whats wrong and will have a new flash shortly! Well, now we are looking at 2010 and many of the 08's still aren't right.
It's like crying wolf, just empty promises. So the R&D said it was ready for production in 08. Further R&D promised it was fixed for 09. Oh, we really mean it this time, it's for sure fixed for 2010
Do some of you now understand why some of the Dragon owners are frustrated and discouraged? Winter is a short season for many. Often times driving very long distance to enjoy their hobbies. It's not fun breaking down or worrying about whether your sled is going to get you back or not.
Mine has been fine so far, but I truly feel the pain for all of you who's sleds have not.
Hope they really do have a fix this time.
It's like crying wolf, just empty promises. So the R&D said it was ready for production in 08. Further R&D promised it was fixed for 09. Oh, we really mean it this time, it's for sure fixed for 2010
Do some of you now understand why some of the Dragon owners are frustrated and discouraged? Winter is a short season for many. Often times driving very long distance to enjoy their hobbies. It's not fun breaking down or worrying about whether your sled is going to get you back or not.
Mine has been fine so far, but I truly feel the pain for all of you who's sleds have not.
Hope they really do have a fix this time.
Did the '07 700 use a 4 injector system? From what I've seen, it seems like the 2 injector system works better and is more reliable. But that could be due to it being on 600's and the smaller motor is more dependable.
Snowtech mentioned that Polaris CFI is similar to the Doo SDI system but Polaris is missing a component or calibration that SDI has. They said Polaris can't seem to tune their system correctly when it switches back and forth from 2 to 4 injectors.
Since the new Rush is only coming with the 2 injector CFI, I'm wondering if they are phasing out the 4 CFI?
Snowtech mentioned that Polaris CFI is similar to the Doo SDI system but Polaris is missing a component or calibration that SDI has. They said Polaris can't seem to tune their system correctly when it switches back and forth from 2 to 4 injectors.
Since the new Rush is only coming with the 2 injector CFI, I'm wondering if they are phasing out the 4 CFI?
I have bought 14 new polaris sleds for either my wife or myself since my first new sled in 1997. I now own a new M8 and love it don't have to worry if I'm going to make it home, love the way it handles and so does the wife (who will have a m8 next year) she hated the way my dragon rode. The letter sounds just like more empty promises from polaris. Oh and by the way next fall most of the guys with 08's will be off warrenty so they won't have to cover them, and leave these guys in the crap just like they did to the 900 guys.
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duc848
Well-known member
I was going to buy a Dragon around the first of the year. I started reading this site and changed my mind. I was then waiting for the 2010's to be announced to make a decision on what to buy. I cant believe I was that patient but I did it, it didnt snow for a month here anyway. After everything was announced form all manufacturers I bought a 2009 M8 153 and could not be happier. For the price I got it for I could put a SLP pipe, telescoping steering post, hood venting, and a 2010 seat from Cat when they come in, all in all I got what appears to be the same performance as a 2010 and saved $1000 bucks in the process. I think Polaris needs to read all the issues and recall every 800 that they have sent out. If they were smart they would give everyone who has had a failure already a new 2010 sled. For those who havent give them all the updates they are coming up with to save face. It will be interesting to see how all this pans out. Just my .02
T
Tom400CFI
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Um....Who are you talking to? If me, my answer to your question is in the thread that I posted a link to, which I know you didn't read.
From my perspective, that sounds great. In reality, that is the stupidest thing they could do from a business standpoint. Yes, they need to fix the sleds, but to give out free 2010's would be financial suicide for them.
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deepdiver
Well-known member
No one will be getting a free sled..that just wont happen. You most likely wont get a new motor either...more than likely a new fuel injection update along with the other parts needed to increase reliability.
Keep in mind that Polaris is NOT a small company without a cash reserve. With annual 2007 sales of $1.8 billion, the warranty cost which is manufacturing cost plus dealer labor is small fish in the big picture of this company.
Snowmobile sales increased three percent to $94.6 million for the 2008 third quarter compared to $91.7 million for the third quarter of 2007. The third quarter increase reflects a benefit of product mix as more higher priced snowmobiles were shipped during the 2008 third quarter compared to the 2007 third quarter. Warrantee costs are a budgeted item. They plan for them and have funds budgeted for them. It is how a large corporation does things..they just dont live for today.
The bonus structure per year for just one of the senior execs is way more than what it would take to fix every problem in the whole Dragon Product line.
This is Not directed at anyone in particular..especially not Duc848.
As far as people complaining goes: well if your sled is just fine then you have nothing to complain about. Others have not been so lucky. When your sled is in the shop for 4-6 weeks plus and no parts in sight and little to no communications from Polaris on a very well known product issue...then lets see how you handle it. I am glad that the few that dont like complaining have nothing to complain about.
IT is called "Feedback" without it problems would go under the rug and the fixes would probably never show theirselves.
If you have an issue with someone complaining the best thing to do is scroll past it....If you complain about complaining you just add fuel to the fire. Trust me I have had to bite my lip a few times. The analogy is that if something on the TV bothers you then change the Fuc*&^% channel. People have been expressing facts along with frustrations. If you dont like it then you dont have to get the recall when and if one finally comes out.. Help Polaris save a few pennies...after all yours is running great and you dont have any problems! BTW..have you even pulled your Y pipe off and looked!
I think one of the biggest concerns is three part:
1. Polaris needs to communicate better, that means internally and externally.
2. Polaris needs to address known product problems in a timely manner and have the necessary parts available.
3. Polaris needs a customer relations dept. that will address issues and help the customer. That would focus concerns or so called whining and complaining to the company.
In a tough market place and a falling economy any company that wants to continue in a positive successful direction has to do things above and beyond what they used to. That equates to more focus on the customer! In todays global market economy corporations do not have the luxury of choosing their customers.
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At least polaris has finally acknoledged that they have a problem and putting a new top end in them every 700 miles is not the fix!! I have been patiently waiting/lurking on here as i have a 07 700 and really want to get an 8, but am not willing to sacrifice reliability for a couple more hp. My 07 D7 has been awesome!!!
I really feel for you who have 08-09 d8's w/all the issues, that sucks a big one! I do know of quite a few w/no problems though. If mine had blown more than once it would have been down the road for something else as well (either back to 700, or a ski-don't)! It really sucks to pay that much money for something though, and not have it perform as advertised (or worse yet lose all of your riding time because it is awlays broke down). I went through this w/ford when they came out w/the 6.0 PSD and it really sucked!
Now if they can get their act together and come up with a "real fix" for the 8's and stand behind those who have 08-09's w/problems i may be in the market for a 2010. Otherwise i guess i will keep riding my 07 D7, or jump ships :S. I beleive they will get it worked out, but yes two years is a bit rediculous!!!!
I really feel for you who have 08-09 d8's w/all the issues, that sucks a big one! I do know of quite a few w/no problems though. If mine had blown more than once it would have been down the road for something else as well (either back to 700, or a ski-don't)! It really sucks to pay that much money for something though, and not have it perform as advertised (or worse yet lose all of your riding time because it is awlays broke down). I went through this w/ford when they came out w/the 6.0 PSD and it really sucked!
Now if they can get their act together and come up with a "real fix" for the 8's and stand behind those who have 08-09's w/problems i may be in the market for a 2010. Otherwise i guess i will keep riding my 07 D7, or jump ships :S. I beleive they will get it worked out, but yes two years is a bit rediculous!!!!
DeepDiver... that is one of the best thought out posts I've seen on this topic...
There is a differnce between complaining about a problem that you HAVE with a sled and bashing...
my 2 cents.
Yes it is good that they acnowledge the problem. Once they have the fix, they should notify all those that own the troubled units that the update is available and to schedule a time for the repairs to be made....
Polairs should update all of the units and not wait for a customer to have a problem.
AND they should give the dealers enough "book time" to repair the problem under warranty so they are not inclined to rush thru the work.
There is a differnce between complaining about a problem that you HAVE with a sled and bashing...
my 2 cents.
Yes it is good that they acnowledge the problem. Once they have the fix, they should notify all those that own the troubled units that the update is available and to schedule a time for the repairs to be made....
Polairs should update all of the units and not wait for a customer to have a problem.
AND they should give the dealers enough "book time" to repair the problem under warranty so they are not inclined to rush thru the work.
A
akrevrider
Well-known member
Deep Diver, for the most part your post is reasoned and balanced. However, I don't think that you know of what you speak when you say that the bonus structure for one senior executive would be enough to take care of all of all of the problems in the entire Dragon line. I seriously doubt that Polaris pays their executives bonuses that are that large. Also, you mentioned that warranty costs are a budgeted item. I could not agree more but I am pretty certain that they have not budgeted for the extent of the problems that they are having which means that they are losing money (and future sales). I would seriously doubt that the purchase price of a new Dragon has enough warranty reserve built into it to replace one top end much less multiple top ends. Of course, not every sled is going down either. It is an actuarial exercise but it one that you are going to lose if you have the same seriou problem with multiple units. That is not the kind of thing that the budgeted reserve was intended to meet.
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deepdiver
Well-known member
Dont think they pay their Execs. that much????Hmmmmm look closely.
Well here is Scott Wines comp package for the year.
ANNUAL COMPENSATION*
Salary $177,622
Bonus $530,000
Total Annual Compensation $707,622
STOCK OPTIONS*
Restricted Stock Awards $252,378
All Other Compensation $242,177
Unexercisable Options 232,000
Total Number of Options 232,000
TOTAL COMPENSATION*
Total Annual Cash Compensation $892,622
Total Short Term Compensation $707,622
Other Long Term Compensation $494,555
Total Calculated Compensation $1,586,798
Here is Bennett Morgans comp.
ANNUAL COMPENSATION*
Salary $392,308
Total Annual Compensation $392,308
STOCK OPTIONS*
Restricted Stock Awards $203,048
All Other Compensation $78,469
Exercised Options 4,400
Exercised Values $104,478
Exercisable Options 128,000
Exercisable Values $195,575
Unexercisable Options 110,000
Unexercisable Values $34,500
Total Value of Options $334,553
Total Number of Options 242,400
TOTAL COMPENSATION*
Total Annual Cash Compensation $832,308
Total Short Term Compensation $392,308
Other Long Term Compensation $281,517
Total Calculated Compensation $1,655,933
Mike Malones Comp.
ANNUAL COMPENSATION*
Salary $365,385
Total Annual Compensation $365,385
STOCK OPTIONS*
Restricted Stock Awards $127,118
All Other Compensation $62,533
Exercisable Options 77,624
Exercisable Values $206,807
Unexercisable Options 47,000
Total Value of Options $206,807
Total Number of Options 124,624
TOTAL COMPENSATION*
Total Annual Cash Compensation $675,385
Total Short Term Compensation $365,385
Other Long Term Compensation $189,651
Total Calculated Compensation $1,093,992
Here is Tillers plan..he is still a director on the board.
ANNUAL COMPENSATION*
Salary $750,000
Total Annual Compensation $750,000
STOCK OPTIONS*
Restricted Stock Awards $924,360
All Other Compensation $269,783
Exercised Options 400,000
Exercised Values $8,962,000
Exercisable Options 1,442,000
Exercisable Values $3,026,750
Total Value of Options $11,988,750
Total Number of Options 1,842,000
TOTAL COMPENSATION*
Total Annual Cash Compensation $2,250,000
Total Short Term Compensation $750,000
Other Long Term Compensation $1,194,143
Total Calculated Compensation $4,814,757
After just looking at a few of these Execs comp plans..especially Tiller who is still involved at polaris, I think you can see that I wasnt too far out in left field even though it was an assumption at the time..more of a figure of speech than anything. If anything you may have missed the context of the assumption....IMHO it was meant as an anology that in the "big Picture" of Polaris in respect to their earnings this recall isnt going to drastically hurt them. If anything they might possibly be hurt more by not doing it. Are you a Polaris employee by any chance? I have had some interesting Pm's by some I would guess have a real vested interest in Polaris. I have a piece of Polaris stock in my portfolio so any bad decisions of Polaris effect the share price which isnt real great, but not bad considering the market in general. Only about a 50% loss in share value since about Sept.
Cheers and if you are a Polaris emp. we need you all to do the best you can in this trying time!
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So for the 2010s it sounds like they will have a fix for the problem, or atleast getting closer to seeing the bottom so they know where the top will be it sounds like. Is that why they are offering a three year engine warrenty over the two year?
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