Please explain the healthcare resistance

[stem]

Hi.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around this massive resistance for the health care reform that we in Europe hear about in the news, I think I haven't got the full picture and can't understand why the majority of the American population is against a health care system witch is run by the government and not by private clinic's and insurance company's.
But as I stated: It can so happen that I do not have the full picture and wold therefor have an appreciate explanation.

To put things in perspective: In Norway, if you go out sledding and hit a tree resulting in a broken leg, you'll have to pay a fee of approx. $35 for transport to the hospital, examination, (operation if necessary), cast/stitches/medication. The rest is payed for via our tax system....
Isn't it a system like this Obama is working for?

Please: Keep thread clean from pro or con Obama/other politicians, I just want to understand the resistance for the reform

Thanks

 

[Pinner]

This should be good... haha

Stem, they can't separate politics from healthcare ?

And when this thread gets boring, ask about guns...hehe

hahahaha LoL I'll get some pop corn.

 

[snowmobiler]

here if you cant afford 700? a month insurance for your family and you get in a accident,the emergency room will fix you but then you get sued,they take your house and you get to move under a bridge in a cardboard box or into a tent in the forest.good times

 

[duffman]

Stem, a majority of Americans still believe that we can make personal decisions better than a government bureaucrat. If you want to snowmobile, a potentially dangerous pursuit, it should be your responsibility to deal with the consequences of your actions, not your fellow taxpayers. Having health care provided by the government allows government almost unlimited potential to interfere with our day to day lives. Also, government has proved time and time again that it is woefully inadequate to run almost anything, let alone a social program that encumpasses nearly twenty percent of the total economy. It is illogical to think that government can reduce health care costs while maintaining current levels of service. Government can not create, it can only take from those who do. They can meddle with who pays the bills, but ultimately the bill comes due.

 

[ruffryder]

Stem, a majority of Americans still believe that we can make personal decisions better than a government bureaucrat.

That is the common argument, unfortunately the real argument is that sometimes government can make better decisions then COMPANIES

If you want to snowmobile, a potentially dangerous pursuit, it should be your responsibility to deal with the consequences of your actions, not your fellow taxpayers.

Well, right now the responsibility is on others that have health care as well. THEY are paying a part of YOUR responsibility. The ONLY way you would pay all your own costs, is to not have insurance at all. Something that a lot of people seem to forget.

Having health care provided by the government allows government almost unlimited potential to interfere with our day to day lives.

overboard on that comment.... slipped way off the slope.

Also, government has proved time and time again that it is woefully inadequate to run almost anything, let alone a social program that encumpasses nearly twenty percent of the total economy.

I don't know about that. The interstate system works pretty well, the post office does too. Our military, being the most powerful in the world does a good job as well. I think there are a lot of programs that do well, we as tax payers just don't like fully funding some of them though...

It is illogical to think that government can reduce health care costs while maintaining current levels of service.

Illogical? How did you come up with that one? I disagree with this point... and it seems a lot of other countries have proved that incorrect as well.

 

[NedMark]

I don't know about that. The interstate system works pretty well, the post office does too. Our military, being the most powerful in the world does a good job as well. I think there are a lot of programs that do well, we as tax payers just don't like fully funding some of them though...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/business/30postal.html

The post office works well? I'll give you the interstates and the military, but our post office is becoming a disaster. Yes, the mail still shows up (for now), but in 2009 they ran record 7 billion dollar deficit. How can you use that as a good example of our government at work?

 

[boondockinboy]

I like canadian healthcare. if i get hurt i dont have to worry about crazy hospital bills and can just focus on recovering. Just my POV

 

[ruffryder]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/business/30postal.html

The post office works well? I'll give you the interstates and the military, but our post office is becoming a disaster. Yes, the mail still shows up (for now), but in 2009 they ran record 7 billion dollar deficit. How can you use that as a good example of our government at work?

Is the deficit because they are running correctly or because they are not allowed to charge the actual costs?

I tend to think it is the later, the same with social security and medicare / medicaid. They are paying out much more then they are getting in.

It is a good point though.. more on that point, you bring up the really large problem with the government system. How much they charge. The ability to charge the appropriate amount to cover costs is not decided by those in that specific system (medicare / social security / post office). It is decided by congress. Therefore it is very difficult to change.

Also, being a government program, it is subsidized by the tax payers. That is the point of a government program right? Does the user need to have the cost of his service represented in the price he pays for that service? Maybe not with the mail, as it would stop people from sending soo much crap all the time..

In my experience shipping with USPS vs Fedex and UPS, USPS gets the package there faster for less money. I have had problems with all three shippers, so I know they are not perfect, but USPS seems to do good in comparison.

Isn't the USPS used a lot for military usages as well?

 

[defysgravity]

Stem...how much of your paycheck goes into your pocket and how much does the govt. keep? 50%?
The problem here is the insurance industry and malpractice along with politicians unwilling to stand up to those groups.....
So if you skip work and break your leg snowmobiling and your buddies don't skip work....but end up helping to cover the cost of your accident through taxes...I guess if everyone is good with that then don't change it.

So I have a kid go to college....works hard at it, studying, maybe even uses a tuitor to get through with marginal results and low grades....
Along comes smarty pants....doesn't have a hard time, maybe even is the one tuitoring my kid, and gets great grades...Deans list stuff....
Well.....lets take some of smarty pants grades and apply them to my kids grades...you know...split the difference and make them both "average" students.....
Both worked hard, right? So why not spread smarty pants wealth around to cover everyone.....hmmm.....

 

[winter brew]

Right now, if you break your leg sledding and have insurance....you are covered to whatever % your policy pays....80%? 90%? 100??

If you have no job and no insurance and break your leg sledding (must be your buddies sled), you go to the county hospital and pay ZERO.

There is already coverage for those that can't afford it!!....the people who would benefit from govt healthcare (and please correct me if I'm wrong here!) are the people her illegally and the people who can afford but choose not to buy insurance. The rest of us will be taxed on our existing health benefits so we will LOSE from this deal.

IMO a much simpler and less expensive plan to cover the extremely poor, better coverage for Veterans and elderly is ALL we need.

 

[ruffryder]

If you have no job and no insurance and break your leg sledding (must be your buddies sled), you go to the county hospital and pay ZERO.

You mind explaining that one to me? County hospitals don't charge?

As to illegals, I don't think they get covered over the current bill proposals.

 

[ruffryder]

The problem here is the insurance industry and malpractice along with politicians unwilling to stand up to those groups.....

blaming the insurance agency is a cop out.. they are part of the problem, but it isn't just them. The malpractice suits are a small part of the problem.

So if you skip work and break your leg snowmobiling and your buddies don't skip work....but end up helping to cover the cost of your accident through taxes...I guess if everyone is good with that then don't change it.

Down here, your buddies that have insurance through the same provider are paying as well...

 

[mold]

Right now, if you break your leg sledding and have insurance....you are covered to whatever % your policy pays....80%? 90%? 100??



I break my leg and my insurance will start to pay after I meet my $5000 deductabale and then payment consistes of 80% of what they damn well want to pay.

My insurace is manditory with a premium of $300/month. And that is for one old hippie that has never submitted a claim.

 

[lucky13]

stem see if this works, we dont like being told what to do, or how to think, or people that want to live off of other people, most of us hate people that want something for nothing, we are not sheep we dont like to follow blindly,

 

[snowmobiler]

There is already coverage for those that can't afford it!!....

you must live in norway too.

 

[stem]

Hmmm...a lot of interesting answers here, but to give some back:

Stem...how much of your paycheck goes into your pocket and how much does the govt. keep? 50%?

I personally pay 36% tax of my income

stem see if this works, we dont like being told what to do, or how to think, or people that want to live off of other people, most of us hate people that want something for nothing, we are not sheep we dont like to follow blindly

Sorry if this seems rude, but is it pride that keeps you from saying yes to the reform then? You don't want the govt to help you in a health situation?

To put this in a context I have two situations I'd like you all to reflect on:

1 A buddy of mine where out trying to do some "Slednecking" on a ramp and overshot the landing, this resulted in two compression fractures in his back and a shattered bone in his ankle, he where picked up by the ambulance and taken to the hospital where they did a preliminary exam and found it impossible for them to repair the ankle due to lack of experience in this field. He was then put on a ambulance plane to one of our biggest university hospitals where they fixed his ankle. He was out from work the next 3 months and is now in the final stages of physio training.
He kept his job, he didn't have to pay for anything at the hospital and he got sick leave money from his job the first 14 days off before the state paid the rest of the sick leave.

2 My brother had a daughter witch where born with hypoplastisk left heart syndrome, this means she was born with half a heart and needed urgent and complicated surgery, this meant ambulance plane to our capital and special transport to our biggest hospital with a crew of surgeons standing ready to do the operation. From the time of birth and to my brother, his wife and their precious daughter came home again and could go to work it took almost 6 months and in this period they both (the parents) got sick leave money, they stayed at the hospital hotel and they didn't have to pay for a thing.

So, correct me if I'm being narrow sighted here, but isn't this what the reform would do for all of you in America? This and putting a lot of insurance sellers/companies out of business?
You see that this is what baffles me, cause I've only seen what I see on the news regarding the health care in the states (that and "Sicko" by Michael More) and I get the impression that if you do not got a $hit load of money or a superduper insurance and you get in one of the situations as I wrote above you're F'ed....?

 

[Catfix]

It sounds like WE could use a plan like Norway has, unfortunately the one they are trying to force on us is nothing like your's.

 

[snowmobiler]

if you have the golden health card,the docs love you.if you have a high deductable,they still love you but you get to pay for insurance and the med bill.if you dont have a HC card your screwed,turned away sometimes and treated like dog poopy.

 

[woodzy]

I don't have to read one sentence of the bill to know I'm not going to like it. The way they have gone about pushing it thru disgusts me. If it's in the best interest of the PEOPLE, they should have no problem letting both parties have their input on it. Closed door sessions, back door deals, Christmas day negotiations, not good things. Obama singled this particular project out during his campaign to be shown to the public live while they were negotiating. hasn't happened, for a reason. The public won't like what is going to be shoved down their throats.

 

[stem]

It sounds like WE could use a plan like Norway has, unfortunately the one they are trying to force on us is nothing like your's.

Then what is it?? This is the core of my questions....

By the way: thanks for all replies, this is getting interesting.