Party affiliation? Who needs it?

[V-Man]

I think we'd do a much better job electing our public servants if there was no party affiliation any more.

Can you imagine if each voter had to actually know what his candidate stood for and believed in? How many people have cast a vote just based on "R" or "D". I bet it is in the 99.99% percent range.

This doesn't help anyone. I'd rather have a much smaller voter turnout than uninformed voters putting the wrong people in office.

Look what has happened to the republican party.

Look at this health care legislation process and the complete exclusion of all republicans. It's ridiculous.

Elected officials should not have labels. Agree, disagree?

 

[Chazmanian]

Look at this health care legislation process and the complete exclusion of all republicans. It's ridiculous.

I will respectfully disagree. Thats talk radio poppycock.

The entire deal started with a gang of 6 Repubs and Dems back in the beginning of summer... Grassley, Snow and Enzi were the GOP folks in the room.

Oddly each of these 6 senators have each recieved over 1 million dollars from the Health Ins sector over their respective careers.

During the negotiations Grassley went out and started talking death panel this and pull the plug on Grannie stuff. This move very much made it obvious that Grassley was simply there to stall and waste time. He had absolutely no desire to do anything about reforming healthcare....Snow did. Enzi did not due to the underlying issue.....Politics.

The GOP absolutely will not agree to, sign off on, vote for anything at all. Nothing. Nada. Even if it was their own bill crafted by them....It wouldnt pass. Its Politics. They cant have Obama sign any type of reform bill as its not in their political best interests. This thing was to be Obama "Waterloo" and break him politically from the get go.

The GOP has been absolutely obstructionist from the get go on any Health care debate or bill....Its politics plain and simple. If anything Obama has reached out to far tried to hard to include the GOP who is only interested in his abject failure and angered his lefty base.

Health care has never been a priority for Republicans the way it has for democrats since the basic philosophy seems to be work hard and make enough money that it's not a problem for you or your family.

Our conservative commentator buddies won't bother to address why the GOP hasn't bothered to present a real plan to counteract the horrors of Obamacare. All the Republicans have to do is set pen to paper and write a bill.

The last deal they sent to the CBO?

Here:
the Congressional Budget Office released its initial analysis of the health-care reform plan that Republican Minority Leader John Boehner offered as a substitute to the Democratic legislation. CBO begins with the baseline estimate that 17 percent of legal, non-elderly residents won't have health-care insurance in 2010. In 2019, after 10 years of the Republican plan, CBO estimates that ...17 percent of legal, non-elderly residents won't have health-care insurance. The Republican alternative will have helped 3 million people secure coverage, which is barely keeping up with population growth. Compare that to the Democratic bill, which covers 36 million more people and cuts the uninsured population to 4 percent.
But maybe, you say, the Republican bill does a really good job cutting costs. According to CBO, the GOP's alternative will shave $68 billion off the deficit in the next 10 years. The Democrats, CBO says, will slice $104 billion off the deficit.

The Democratic bill, in other words, covers 12 times as many people and saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan. And amazingly, the Democratic bill has already been through three committees and a merger process. It's already been shown to interest groups and advocacy organizations and industry stakeholders. It's already made its compromises with reality. It's already been through the legislative sausage grinder. And yet it saves more money and covers more people than the blank-slate alternative proposed by John Boehner and the House Republicans. The Democrats, constrained by reality, produced a far better plan than Boehner, who was constrained solely by his political imagination and legislative skill.

 

[woodzy]

So the democrats are going to "save" 68 billion dollars with their great grand health insurance plan!!!??? WOOOO HOOOOOO.... They're still a LOOOONG ways from getting that 700 billion they gave away back.

This administration has zero understanding of fiscal policy. They throw money out the window to their friends standing in the lawn... Then have the nads to tell the rest of us that it's ok and they are going to pay it back. PHUK them.

 

[V-Man]

Here:
the Congressional Budget Office released its initial analysis of the health-care reform plan that Republican Minority Leader John Boehner offered as a substitute to the Democratic legislation. CBO begins with the baseline estimate that 17 percent of legal, non-elderly residents won't have health-care insurance in 2010. In 2019, after 10 years of the Republican plan, CBO estimates that ...17 percent of legal, non-elderly residents won't have health-care insurance. The Republican alternative will have helped 3 million people secure coverage, which is barely keeping up with population growth. Compare that to the Democratic bill, which covers 36 million more people and cuts the uninsured population to 4 percent.
But maybe, you say, the Republican bill does a really good job cutting costs. According to CBO, the GOP's alternative will shave $68 billion off the deficit in the next 10 years. The Democrats, CBO says, will slice $104 billion off the deficit.

The Democratic bill, in other words, covers 12 times as many people and saves $36 billion more than the Republican plan. And amazingly, the Democratic bill has already been through three committees and a merger process. It's already been shown to interest groups and advocacy organizations and industry stakeholders. It's already made its compromises with reality. It's already been through the legislative sausage grinder. And yet it saves more money and covers more people than the blank-slate alternative proposed by John Boehner and the House Republicans. The Democrats, constrained by reality, produced a far better plan than Boehner, who was constrained solely by his political imagination and legislative skill.

What lefty blog did you get this drivel from? I don't know what ideas were being reference here, but I think many of the GOP ideas are great. (own your own insurance, buy across state lines, tort reform) Lets start slow, no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

The entire deal started with a gang of 6 Repubs and Dems back in the beginning of summer... Grassley, Snow and Enzi were the GOP folks in the room.

Okay, complete exclusion wasn't the right choice of words. Olympia Snow, etc. is on the Senate Health Care Sub Committee. They didn't draft this nonsense. They just vote whether or not it should be opened up for debate, and she folded. That's where GOP involvment ends. The drafting of the healthcare proposals have largely excluded every member of the republican party. There have been countless closed door meetings, even called by Obama, that have had zero republican attendance. This isn't talk radio poppycock. I've seen GOP Senator after Senator on TV discuss how the proposed legislation has zero inclusion of any of their ideas and they've been shut out.

You know the GOP wasn't really involved and frakely wasn't needed either. They don't have the votes to stop or obstruct anything.

I'm not supporting everything the GOP does or stands for. What I'm saying is there should be no GOP, no Dems etc. Lets just elect people.

Don't you think if there was no party affiliation we'd have a more balanced approach? How could there be votes down party lines if there were no party lines? Maybe the polictical struggle over power, which isn't in the best interest of the country, would subside?

 

[Chazmanian]

V-Man;2024150]What lefty blog did you get this drivel from?

Its the CBO numbers on the plan that was released by the GOP Vs' whatever plan the Dems had out at the time....Lefty drivel? Schmivel. The right only likes the CBO when they score stuff politically advantages to the GOP. If it isnt deemed politically good for the GOP then suddenly they no longer care for the CBO's numbers.

Okay, complete exclusion wasn't the right choice of words. Olympia Snow, etc. is on the Senate Health Care Sub Committee. They didn't draft this nonsense. They just vote whether or not it should be opened up for debate, and she folded. That's where GOP involvment ends.

The GOP could care less. They want nothing nada zip. No reform. No plan. No cooperation. Zilch. Its not good politics to let Obama score a win in health care. Has nothing to do with actual health care issues....has everything to do with politics.

The drafting of the healthcare proposals have largely excluded every member of the republican party

Once again no Republican wants to anything more than stonewall, stall and or stop any legislation from being passed on Obamas watch. Be it good bad or indifferent this in the mindset of the GOP is Obamas "Waterloo" they can destroy him with this issue and thats all that really matters.

There have been countless closed door meetings, even called by Obama, that have had zero republican attendance. This isn't talk radio poppycock.

Once again its not just Poppycock...Its absolute Poppycock. The GOP wants nothing to do with advancing anything positive on Obamas watch...If you have been led to believe otherwise you Sir have been lied to.

I've seen GOP Senator after Senator on TV discuss how the proposed legislation has zero inclusion of any of their ideas and they've been shut out.

They have shut themselves out. Study beyond Beck Bro...Its real. They do not care for anything to pass. Its all politicing. All nasty, all dirty on both sides. The one thing that is clear is that Obama wanted bipartisian support for some type of health care reform bill and Naively underestimated the GOP's absolute party line stance on obstructionism and uncooperation.Much to the dismay of his Lafty pals!!

I'm not supporting everything the GOP does or stands for. What I'm saying is there should be no GOP, no Dems etc. Lets just elect people.

Agreed

Don't you think if there was no party affiliation we'd have a more balanced approach? How could there be votes down party lines if there were no party lines? Maybe the polictical struggle over power, which isn't in the best interest of the country, would subside]

And yet another cold one

Right on V-Man...But seriously the GOP has no interest in advancing anything good so long as the Prez and both the senate and house are Dems. Period. Thats politics 101. Anyone who states otherwise is simply confused or lying.

 

[Chazmanian]

So the democrats are going to "save" 68 billion dollars with their great grand health insurance plan!!!??? WOOOO HOOOOOO.... They're still a LOOOONG ways from getting that 700 billion they gave away back.

Actually the numbers have changed since that report.

I'm not a fan of the current bill as I dont like having Ins mandated by the Gov.

I will also say and no offense intended to you that maybe none of us really know whats in the current bill short of the fact that it dosent have a public option or medicare expansion.

Both of those items will be sticking points in getting the house back on board as the house bill was much more socialized or radical than the current bill that has came out of the senate....

Just to be clear though? The Gov has not given away 700 Billion to anystates. I also do not think that numbers were 700 billion but maybe 700 million. I dont like that style of politiciking and cant believe they would agree to that bribery....But it is what it is.

I will tell you that there are a few good things in that bill....They dont outweigh the bad but good nonetheless...

Pre-Exsisting conditions.
Amounts paid toward actual patient care Vs' incoming premiums.
Ability to buy Pharmecuticals from Canada.

I wouldnt vote for the bill if I were a senator or member of congress as I dont care for the giveaways and the mandates.

I will say that our current health system needs some work though.....

This administration has zero understanding of fiscal policy. They throw money out the window to their friends standing in the lawn

Did you prefer the previous administrations handling of our tax dollars or???

I will concur that our spending is outta control. We did not arrive here overnight though. Look at the path this country has been going down for the past decade.

We dont build crap.
We outsource everything.
Our borders are essentially open to the south and we welcome illegals with open arms and give them jobs from which billions are sent back to....Mexico, Guatemala etc..etc..

We have lost more jobs over the last decade than at any time in our 200+ year history as a country. We became a global powerhouse due to ability to manufacture goods and our vast natural resources....We dont make crap, and we buy our oil from ragheaded terrorists.

Wake up Bro. This isnt just an Obama admin thing. This has been a long time in the works. I understand your anger but its kinda misdirected.

 

[V-Man]

Its the CBO numbers on the plan that was released by the GOP Vs' whatever plan the Dems had out at the time....Lefty drivel? Schmivel. The right only likes the CBO when they score stuff politically advantages to the GOP. If it isnt deemed politically good for the GOP then suddenly they no longer care for the CBO's numbers.

I'm not saying the CBO numbers are drivel, just the context around it. It didn't mention anything about what those proposals were and was worded with clear bias toward the dems. I don't expect you to research and find the perfect articles to prove your point. That one was weak on facts and just happened to have a bias tone.

The GOP could care less. They want nothing nada zip. No reform. No plan. No cooperation. Zilch. Its not good politics to let Obama score a win in health care. Has nothing to do with actual health care issues....has everything to do with politics.

Once again no Republican wants to anything more than stonewall, stall and or stop any legislation from being passed on Obamas watch. Be it good bad or indifferent this in the mindset of the GOP is Obamas "Waterloo" they can destroy him with this issue and thats all that really matters.

Once again its not just Poppycock...Its absolute Poppycock. The GOP wants nothing to do with advancing anything positive on Obamas watch...If you have been led to believe otherwise you Sir have been lied to.

Can you blame them. I wouldn't put my name on any of this crap either. Obama's philosophy is a complete 180 degree from conservative viewpoint. Of course they don't want to see any success. There is no middle ground when you are this polarized and they'll never see eye to eye.


What the heck is a poppycock anyway?

The one thing that is clear is that Obama wanted bipartisian support for some type of health care reform bill and Naively underestimated the GOP's absolute party line stance on obstructionism and uncooperation.Much to the dismay of his Lafty pals!!

Obama wanted a single payer system. Sure he'd want the GOP to support it. They never will. That was naive. In reality, his a liar. Plain and simple. I don't trust a single word coming out of his mouth. The lies and empty promises never stop. He's worse than your average politician, and that's bad!

 

[V-Man]

Pre-Exsisting conditions.
Amounts paid toward actual patient care Vs' incoming premiums.

Good post Chaz, but I do have a problem with these two things.

Pre-existing condiditons - Why get insurance at all then? When catastophe hits go get it after the fact. This is like wrecking your car then getting insurance the next day. How can we expect insurance premiums for everyone to not skyrocket if they are forced to provide this kind of coverage. This is not a solution, just a bandaid, and a bad one at that. The solution to the problem is make sure people don't have to leave their current provider. De-couple insurance from your employer. It is ridiculous to leave a health plan you love because you don't like your job anymore, or get fired. Employers could put what they pay in health premiums today into you tax free flexible spending program where you use the procedds to buy health insurance and pay for care not covered.

Amounts paid toward actual patient care Vs' incoming premiums.

Bad idea. Let companies compete and stay in business based on the merits of how they run that business. If they do a bad job and piss away money then they go under and competitors take their customers away. Gov need to stay out of stuff like this. Very dangerous. If a successful insurance provider want to grow to offer services in othe states etc it will take capital investment to hire people and build buildings etc.

As I said in another thread, get gov completely out of healthcare and 99% of our problems go away. Maybe even more....

 

[woodzy]

Actually the numbers have changed since that report.

I'm not a fan of the current bill as I dont like having Ins mandated by the Gov.

I will also say and no offense intended to you that maybe none of us really know whats in the current bill short of the fact that it dosent have a public option or medicare expansion.

Both of those items will be sticking points in getting the house back on board as the house bill was much more socialized or radical than the current bill that has came out of the senate....

Just to be clear though? The Gov has not given away 700 Billion to anystates. I also do not think that numbers were 700 billion but maybe 700 million. I dont like that style of politiciking and cant believe they would agree to that bribery....But it is what it is.

I will tell you that there are a few good things in that bill....They dont outweigh the bad but good nonetheless...

Pre-Exsisting conditions.
Amounts paid toward actual patient care Vs' incoming premiums.
Ability to buy Pharmecuticals from Canada.

I wouldnt vote for the bill if I were a senator or member of congress as I dont care for the giveaways and the mandates.

I will say that our current health system needs some work though.....



Did you prefer the previous administrations handling of our tax dollars or???

I will concur that our spending is outta control. We did not arrive here overnight though. Look at the path this country has been going down for the past decade.

We dont build crap.
We outsource everything.
Our borders are essentially open to the south and we welcome illegals with open arms and give them jobs from which billions are sent back to....Mexico, Guatemala etc..etc..

We have lost more jobs over the last decade than at any time in our 200+ year history as a country. We became a global powerhouse due to ability to manufacture goods and our vast natural resources....We dont make crap, and we buy our oil from ragheaded terrorists.

Wake up Bro. This isnt just an Obama admin thing. This has been a long time in the works. I understand your anger but its kinda misdirected.

I do realize this isn't just an Obama thing with the spending. It has progressively gotten worse over time. The difference being; presidents before him were spending us down a bankrupt highway, he just pulled into the fastlane. All that stimulus money out, and nothing to show for it.

We as a country need to get back to self-sustanance. We import everything when we can produce everything we need right here.

 

[EagleRiverDee]

I think we'd do a much better job electing our public servants if there was no party affiliation any more.

Can you imagine if each voter had to actually know what his candidate stood for and believed in? How many people have cast a vote just based on "R" or "D". I bet it is in the 99.99% percent range.

This doesn't help anyone. I'd rather have a much smaller voter turnout than uninformed voters putting the wrong people in office.

Look what has happened to the republican party.

Look at this health care legislation process and the complete exclusion of all republicans. It's ridiculous.

Elected officials should not have labels. Agree, disagree?

Personally I agree. I was a Republican. But the republican party doesn't walk the talk. It calls for smaller government, less spending, but then the republicans in Congress continuously vote to increase spending and grow government.

And after the last election I saw how many people simply voted for the person with the "D" by their name. That's insane. I asked my Aunt, an avowed Democrat, whether she preferred Obama or Hillary early on in the primaries. Her answer was "Any democrat". What? So she didn't see an appreciable difference between them? I sure did. They did interviews with people after they voted where the interviewers deliberately said that Obama stood for things McCain stood for and vice-versa and voters clearly didn't have a clue about issues, they just voted for the R or the D. That is just sad.

Our Founding Fathers warned against parties, and we didn't listen. We are now reaping what we've sown.

 

[94fordguy]

Personally I agree. I was a Republican. But the republican party doesn't walk the talk. It calls for smaller government, less spending, but then the republicans in Congress continuously vote to increase spending and grow government.

And after the last election I saw how many people simply voted for the person with the "D" by their name. That's insane. I asked my Aunt, an avowed Democrat, whether she preferred Obama or Hillary early on in the primaries. Her answer was "Any democrat". What? So she didn't see an appreciable difference between them? I sure did. They did interviews with people after they voted where the interviewers deliberately said that Obama stood for things McCain stood for and vice-versa and voters clearly didn't have a clue about issues, they just voted for the R or the D. That is just sad.

Our Founding Fathers warned against parties, and we didn't listen. We are now reaping what we've sown.

Well said.... I agree 100% The party system seems to get in the way and cause more problems than it fixes..... How many times have you heard the term "voted along party lines" come up.... just stupid IMO

 

[ruffryder]

I do realize this isn't just an Obama thing with the spending. It has progressively gotten worse over time. The difference being; presidents before him were spending us down a bankrupt highway, he just pulled into the fastlane. All that stimulus money out, and nothing to show for it.

We as a country need to get back to self-sustanance. We import everything when we can produce everything we need right here.

I believe only half the money is out yet. Also, it seems the banks are paying the money back and I believe GM is going to pay some back as well.

 

[woodzy]

I believe only half the money is out yet. Also, it seems the banks are paying the money back and I believe GM is going to pay some back as well.

I believe we are screwed, does that make me any more correct than you believing what you believe???

 

[Chazmanian]

I believe we are screwed, does that make me any more correct than you believing what you believe???

Bluto: "Over? Did you say over? Nothing is over until we decide it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell, no."

 

[duffman]

It seems to me that the two party system works just fine, as long as they are working against each other. When one party controls the administration and the other controls the house and senate, not much gets done. I would rather pay them to sit up in Washington and bicker, versus dreaming up new laws to "help" me. Wall Street has generally agreed with me on this. When a party starts talking about "coming across the isle" as republicans have been doing for several years now, it is time to hold on to your wallet because something bad is going to happen!

 

[ruffryder]

Well said.... I agree 100% The party system seems to get in the way and cause more problems than it fixes..... How many times have you heard the term "voted along party lines" come up.... just stupid IMO

Agreed, it is a pain. I wonder if they removed the R and D next to names on ballots if the majority of people would pick the first one? Or the one with the best name? Sadley, I have done that a couple of times. I wasn't and am not very proud of it, but I felt I had to put something there. Now if I don't know ahead of time, I just leave it blank.

 

[woodzy]

I vote for whoever the bullies outside the booth tell me to.. cuz you know, I don't wanna get beat up or anything.