Paint or Powder Coat skid?

[rjkoll]

hey all, I wanted to do a black skid on my rmk this summer. Just wondering how most of you are going about this. Should it be powder coated, automotive paint, etc? Price is a factor so I guess my question is what is the cheapest way to make them black while still getting a quality/durable finish? thanks in advance.

 

[Jkinzer]

powdercoating is the only way to go. make sure you go to a well known powder coater though... there are lots of guys out there that can powder coat, but very few of them do it right. powder coating "looks like paint, and acts like armor" if done right it will last for years and shed a ton of snow and ice build up as well

 

[Farmington Motorsports #9]

Kinzer - who do you recommend when it comes to powdercoating?

Thanks-

 

[Jkinzer]

Custom Coat here in Lewiston does all of my stuff... i have used three different powder coaters over the last 4 years and they finished product is hands down better than anything else i have used, and their pricing is better than most as well.

 

[NapaMatt]

i got a price quote of 250$$

is that in the ball park???


black powder coating?

 

[Jkinzer]

i did my girlfriends sled last fall, had spindles, steering rods, rails, both rear suspension arms, all cross shafts and axles, bar risers, front and rear bumpers, and all heat sheilds done black and it was just under $200, rode for 1500 miles this season and it looks like it was just coated yesterday

 

[Jkinzer]

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[rjkoll]

Wow....200 bucks seems like a great deal for all of that... Awesome looking sled too...does anyone know of any good places in MN to get powder coating done?

 

[guidoxpress]

diffinately powder coat...its VERY strong and looks great...and is super easy to wash of gunk..

you will just have to check around your area for powder coaters...i go to the shops, looks around, check out the projects they got going on there and while i am looking at stuff laying around, you can tell if the finsih is nice, if the shop is nice and clean, professionalism...the cleaner ad more professional they are, you can bet their products are top notch as well..

i powder coat my own stuff (small) and it works great (refer to build threads in my sig for some stuff i have done/working on) but i take big stuff to pros, it takes some good equipment to throughly clean some parts, and acid washing the parts before coating is very important too....

rails on average i would say should cost no more then $150 IMO..but everywhere is different...the more you work with the coater the more he hooks you up every time you go back for more

 

[F-Bomb]

As has been discussed over and over...powder works the best for all around durability and snow shedding performance when balanced with cost. Anodizing only competes when done with the expensive and difficult to applicate process sometimes referred to as "hard" anodizing. You also have to prep your aluminum to a high polish prior to this process in order to get a perfectly smooth outer surface. The more smooth the process the easier snow and ice falls away so there isn't a build up problem.
bumpers..rails...risers...bars...Better Bars outer support bars...suspensions...Better Boards

here are a few of my own sleds that we put powder on....one thing is absolute...in the field less snow and ice adheres to your sled and that equals higher performance.

 

[guidoxpress]

yes great point Rob..

the main thin i forgot to mention Rob nailed...

powder coat sheds snow/ice....with little to NO build-up whatsoever...

its great!

 

[NapaMatt]

there a place out of the T.C that does it..

or Spring Valley "Kappers"

If your in SE MN

my .02

Matt

 

[ruffryder]

bringing this one back up,

does it make that much difference for only powdercoating rails? with respect to snow removal / stiction?

 

[rmk2112]

Kinzer - who do you recommend when it comes to powdercoating?

Thanks-

Great guy over here on the West side of the mountains.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221230

 

[mountainhorse]

F-Bomb:You also have to prep your aluminum to a high polish prior to this process in order to get a perfectly smooth outer surface.

Please note here that Rob is referring to anodizing and NOT powdercoating.

Proper surface prep is most of the battle...

The rails and arms must be squeaky clean, free from oil and residue, etched or preferably sand blasted and then powdercoated...

Many P-coat shops do not do the proper prep for a durable finish... sure it is shiny, but how long before it flakes off...especially the aluminum if not properly prepped.

Cheap powder coat is just that... the cost difference is usually in the prep which takes the most time.

My 2 cents.

BTW..
If you are going to paint... the only one that I would use is "POR-15" (CLICKY).... the closest to powdercoat durablity and non-porosity that I have found (p-coat is still better) ... easy to apply, even with a brush and flows out like it was sprayed... you will need to strip to bare metal... and prep it the same as powdercoating if you want it to last.

They say to topcoat it... but, on sleds that are not left out in the sun for months at a time... the UV will not affect it in general... otherwise...just use some car wax on it.

 

[milehighassassin]

For an entire skid, how much weight do you guys think is added by powdercoating?

That is one place anodizing has the edge, ZERO weight is added.

 

[mountainhorse]

For an entire skid, how much weight do you guys think is added by powdercoating?

That is one place anodizing has the edge, ZERO weight is added.

Good point.

On rails... Powdercoating added a bit over 3/4 lb for the 2 rails of a 155 IQ-RMK skid... compared to the weight before application.

A whole skid, once the paint is stripped to bare metal, would probably be in the neighborhood of only 1.5 lbs more than the stock skid with its painted parts... MUCH less than the snow/ice and snow that will stick to the skid.

The only thing in the skid that can be anodized are the aluminum parts; eg. Rails, cross shafts, axle... steel cannot be anodized.


If you are doing anodizing... Hardcoat Type III is the only way to go... there are also Teflon impregnated Type III's as well that are even more resistant.

In my experience, you do not have to pre-polish for TYPE-III... there really is not much porosity.... have a look at the HRP Spindles for the IQ's... Ice/snow really does not stick to them... and that is the more porous Type-II Ano.

Type I and Type II DO benefit greatly from polish prior to application.

The body of a Fox Float Shock... Type-III... Not polished before Anodized (I've been to the factory and saw the boxes of bodies on the way to the Anodize)

Type 3 hard anodizing has a rockwell hardness of C65 -C70... in comparison to a grade 8 bolt at C35-C38. This is pretty darn scratch resistant.

The hardcoat Type III anodizing is the most durable of the two choices and equally less porous with as powder coating.... thus shedding ice and snow in a similar fashion.

Powdercoating is only as good as the application process as F-Bomb points out in many other great posts he has made on this topic... he has put WAY more research into this than most of us would dream of. The process that he uses is one of the most thorough that I've seen!

Good powdercoating and Type III are about a push on cost.

Powdercoating gives you color choices... Type III is only in black or shades of black.

Quote F-Bomb:
The only time hard anodize processes can even remotely compete with certain electrostatic powders is when the base metal is polished to a high shine

True for decorative Type I or Type II anodize.... not true for hard anodize...No polishing is needed... heck the Navy uses Type-III on their Arctic-bound ships and subs. specifically to inhibit ice buildup on deck mounted aluminum components.

 

[mountainhorse]

Type III, HCA, or hardcoat anodize, generates the highest wear performance * generally Rockwell 60-70C, the smoothest surface, and the darkest coloring. Electrical insulation rating for hardcoat anodize is 800 V/mil. This lower-temperature process is the most versatile of anodize technologies. Highly recommended for 5000 through 7000 series alloys.

Hard Coat Anodizing

Hard coat or hard anodizing (Type III) is similar to standard anodizing, (Type II) in as much as it also creates a film of aluminum oxide on the part. It is produced at colder temperatures and provides a surface that is harder, smoother, and more wear and corrosion resistant than standard anodizing.

Hard coat anodized films can also be grown to greater thickness, typically .002 inches or more.

Hardcoat finishes are typically darker in appearance than standard anodizing depending on the coating, thickness and alloy. A variety of colors are available on thinner coatings. Heavier coatings can be dyed black and some darker shades of color.
Benefits of Hardcoat Anodizing

• Wear Resistance
• Corrosion Resistance
• Appearance

Other links....

http://www.pioneermetal.com/finishes/hanodize.php

http://www.unitedplating.com/hard_coat.htm

 

[F-Bomb]

Not all powder is the same for snow shedding. The secret is it needs to be super smooth. No dimples as those just make suction and once ice gets started and sticks at the source you get instant build up. Just another reason why our products outperform others that don't put the research in. Hammertones or hammer style powders are the WORST at shedding snow and actually hold snow and ice build up more then plain natural aluminum.

It takes very little ice build up on your suspension or rails to out weigh a little bit of powder. Huge benies overall coating everything you can. It's expensive and permanant though. Also alot more risk when your sled gets damaged in little bits and pieces. Worth it for those that want the best.

FYI I have both powder and anodized from Holz on ice age rails. It's a toss up for performance...maybe the powder works a notch better but not much.