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On the IQ RMK’s… My swaybar thoughts.

mountainhorse

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On the IQ RMK’s… My swaybar thoughts.

Here’s my take on the subject…

I have been getting quite a few PM’s and emails about swaybars on the IQ RMK’s equipped Walker Evans airs…or other shocks that are sprung/valved for use with a sway bar.

Before you may get all riled up… I do believe that you can get good performance from the sleds without a swaybar… but your shocks will need to be re-sprung/valved… IMO… it is not possible to get optimum performance from a IQ RMK’s with Walker Evans Air Shocks or basic Float shocks (non Float 2’s) WITHOUT a swaybar.

This conversation is for the "Average Joe/Josephine" that does not have upgraded shocks or years of riding experience.

With the IQ chassis (non Race/RR) ... and those shocks...with the sway bar out... for the most part…. you are really not getting the sled "on edge" even though it may feel like it...You are compressing the front shock and flexing the track.

Many people have this misconception…. I Did too (until I worked with Dan Adams on my technique)

When the shock is collapsed, there is little travel remaining to deal with rough terrain or crusty snow. Even more evident on a steep side hill when the body panels are riding deep in the snow and want to push you back down the hill… usually resulting in a roll over or requiring that you turn down the hill and going, usually, where you don’t want to go.

Truly getting the sled "on edge" DOES require more effort (to learn) and balance... It takes a practice to get comfortable with it... but the efforts over a few days of riding will, IMO, transform your riding. Once you "get it"... there is not much effort to the tequnique and you don't get tired on long sidehills.

With the proper swaybar OR new shocks that are valved and sprung for no swaybar... the sled will get up on edge well and hold a line without the shock collapsing on a steep sidehill... and kept the travel in the shock to deal with terrain and not get bucked back down the hill...Nor buck you off when doing powder carves in a meadow.

Yes, you can throw it around easier without the swaybar out...BUT... this is a dead-giveaway that you need to work on your riding techniques...

I had the same misunderstanding and needed to work on it. This is the key to better riding on a Mountain sled IMO.

BTW...With the Stock Walker Evans Air shocks...IMO.. there is no real way to get them to work well for a sled that has no swaybar. The Assault Walker Air Piggybacks are "better" but not at all "ideal" for most riders without a swaybar... I know of many 2009 Assault riders that retrofitted a swaybar for their mountain riding

Cranking up the preload on the spring or putting more air in the shock is not the answer either as you can get into coil bind or the air-shock does not want to compress fully and gets super stiff… especially in the standard floats. Plus… this throws off the engineered balance of the sled... though some people adapt to it.

In the end... it boils down to practice... get into a packed out field and spend the day getting and keeping your sled on edge in left and right turns. Throttle control is important here too. Sometimes, like for me, it took an hour of literally walking next to my sled with it on edge and controlling the throttle, skis and balance of the sled before I could ride it that way.

You should be able to ride on one ski indefinitely, with little effort, once you have perfected the technique.

My 2 cents.
 
On the "old style" swaybars common in the 2005-2008 and some 2009's the bushings in the a-arms are often worn out and prevent proper operation... these wear out in 1 season or less in most cases... though most people do not replace them ever.

On these models, I have found that rounding the ends of the swaybar a bit, into a more ball like shape, helps with a smoother action...

Also, use some good waterproof rubber grease in the bushings at the bulkhead and make sure that those are in good shape as well... cheap and easy fix.

Many of the swaybars on these sleds have worn out bushings and the owners dont even realize it.
 
On my personal sled, (08 dragon) I run no sway bar, with standard floats at about 75 pounds, with the skis moved in to their narrowest. I personal have never ridden a dragon that I like better than mine. It's a very simple setup, but it works absolutely awesome for me! I have ridden IQ's with a sway bar, stock walker shocks, coil overs, and just don't like the sway bar. Like you say maybe my skill set needs work? But I just love how mine handles.
 
I had the same setup with the non Float2's/Evols.

Your pressure is high enough to keep the front end up... that is not the issue... It is when you DO encounter a lump/bump/ice chunk... expecially on a steep side hill, you dont have the compliance thru the entire stroke of the shock as the Basic floats ramp up really quickly in the final 1/3'd of the stroke.

The Float 2's or the Float EVOL (EVOL converson, "X" or "R") models dont have this quick ramp up and give you more control over the sled. .. It really ISN't a "sales gimic" the additional air volume really does make a difference.

My 2 cents... IMO...
 
I had the same setup with the non Float2's/Evols.

Your pressure is high enough to keep the front end up... that is not the issue... It is when you DO encounter a lump/bump/ice chunk... expecially on a steep side hill, you dont have the compliance thru the entire stroke of the shock as the Basic floats ramp up really quickly in the final 1/3'd of the stroke.

The Float 2's or the Float EVOL (EVOL converson, "X" or "R") models dont have this quick ramp up and give you more control over the sled. .. It really ISN't a "sales gimic" the additional air volume really does make a difference.

My 2 cents... IMO...

That makes sense, I have actually noticed that now and then, most times I can keep it going where I want it to go, but it does throw me off more than it should have to. So your saying simply going to a shock like the EVOL, with more air volume, will fix this? Or would you still go back to a sway bar and start over?
 
IMO... you can send your shocks back to Fox or to Carls... you can get them upgraded to the float-2 setup... less than buying a new pair and dealing with selling the old ones
... this is better than the "EVOL chamber only" update since this gives you a the neg air spring setup, better piston and valving overall a better shock.

About $350 If I recall.

Carls
Holz
Fox Factory
Etc can do it.

Go to www.foxracingshox.com and look for the Canadian service center.

Otherwise... drop the air pressure a bit and try it with the swaybar.

Good luck.
 
I just got mine rebuilt by Fastrax, and asked about updating them, was told it's really not worth the coin to update to the float2 internals? Won't matter much though, I have a trade in the works for an IQr conversion. So I'll be looking to set that one up right soon. :)
 
On my personal sled, (08 dragon) I run no sway bar, with standard floats at about 75 pounds, with the skis moved in to their narrowest. I personal have never ridden a dragon that I like better than mine. It's a very simple setup, but it works absolutely awesome for me! I have ridden IQ's with a sway bar, stock walker shocks, coil overs, and just don't like the sway bar. Like you say maybe my skill set needs work? But I just love how mine handles.
I run as little as 50 pds on the float 2's on my 08 dragon with 10 frt and swaybar..rides great, but normally about 55-60 pds...so 75 is a bunch just to compensate for no bar....
 
I use to run my evol x's without swaybar at 65 psi in the main chamber, now I run them at 70 psi fwith out the sway bar and like it a whole lot more, but then again I also weigh about 230-240 lbs geared up.
 
Yep... the EVOL chamber and high volume bearing cap on the EVOL's make a big difference when running the higher air pressures.... AT $1500 the shocks should perform and adjust how you want them!!

I use to run my evol x's without swaybar at 65 psi in the main chamber, now I run them at 70 psi fwith out the sway bar and like it a whole lot more, but then again I also weigh about 230-240 lbs geared up.
 
Eric says "Yep... the EVOL chamber and high volume bearing cap on the EVOL's make a big difference when running the higher air pressures.... AT $1500 the shocks should perform and adjust how you want them!!"

Super good news...THEY DO!

hey should I run a sway bar? brap brap

Why not pull or disconnect your sway bar and see if you like it? Everyone has their own feel or result preference. It makes a huge difference on how your sled behalves in various conditions. All of mine are in place.......

also FYI...the new 2011 Fox Evol R's are excellent. Probably a better overall product for the real world of performance mtn sledding when you punch in all of the factors.
 
running my 10 800 rmk with no sway bar and fox float 2's at 80 psi. Ski's are set at the narrowest and i apsolutely love this setup.
 
Sled handles much more predictably in the super technical riding with the bar in, hands down. You need to learn to ride it with the bar in for awhile and youll be amazed what you can do with this sled. I switched over to walker needle piggybacks and assault rears and that helped alot too.
 
When I lived in McCall years ago, we were in Medley's one afternoon B.S.ing with some other local talent (as if I'm talent). One feller said that he could ride powder turns sitting down and thought it was faster than standing up, getting on the inside of the sled, turning, then recorrecting and sitting back down. I thought to myself that this guy was full of something. I got home, got the trusty XLT out and decided to try. Since the snow was walk-on hard, I had nothing better to do that try. Once I got done practicing, I could not only ride in a straight line for as long as I wanted, I could slalom around the local lodge poles. After that I wanted to push it so I started riding circles being on the inside of the turn. To spice it up, I then worked until I could ride a figure 8. Now picture the sled on a single edge going both inside turn and riding on the outside of the turn without tipping the airborne ski down. I have figured out the balance of riding on one edge while sitting so it is quite handy if something jumps up in front of you in the trail (ice ball, small tree, etc) or if you want to ride the banks on the way back to the truck. Sit down and ride it flat up and down the banks. All this with the sway bar on. Sidehilling while standing up is second nature now.
 
Thanks for that input VB!

It was a revelation to me as well.... something that the advanced riders I've had the opportunity to sled with took for granted!
 
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I had no problems getting the 900 to stay on edge with the swaybar on. What I found with it off was that the ride quality improved when you were on hard pack or washboard.

With the swaybar, if one ski is running over washboard in the trail it transmits it to the other ski via the swaybar. With the sway bar off I can run one ski on a smooth surface and the other can bounce freely over the washboard and not transmit it all to the bars and my body.

If I was always on perfectly groomed trails all the time than yes I would leave it on, but in the real world where I ride the sled just rides a whole heck of a lot smoother without it.
 
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