Octane numbers, E85 and race fuel questions

[Sunvang]

Hi.

Here in Norway our pump gas is measured in RON, not like inthe US and Canada, where it is in PON. Don't know how to calculate it, but our pump gas is at 98RON, what does that compare to in PON? 7


I want to run some 100LL in my turbo this year, and need a way to calculate it.

 

[Boyko]

100LL is 100Ron but because it is used for aviation there is no Ron rating It would be safe to say it is 105Ron. Your 98Ron would be around 88Mon. Typically pump gas is 10 points less Mon

The most commonly used current fuel 100LL, has an aviation lean rating of 100 octane, and an aviation rich rating of 130

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

 

[Sunvang]

So if I calculate right, our 98 RON is equal to around 93-94PON.

How many PON is your premium pump fuel?


Edit: I see E85 has a very high octane rating, can this be mixed into the gas as a substitute for race fuel?

 

[Boyko]

So if I calculate right, our 98 RON is equal to around 93-94PON.

How many PON is your premium pump fuel?


Edit: I see E85 has a very high octane rating, can this be mixed into the gas as a substitute for race fuel?

98Ron is going to be close to 88Mon I am not sure what Pon is. E85 is 85% alcohol, not really good fuel for a 2stroke

 

[Sunvang]

98Ron is going to be close to 88Mon I am not sure what Pon is. E85 is 85% alcohol, not really good fuel for a 2stroke

According to wikipedia, PON/AKI is the US and Canadian standard, of measuring octane levels. PON is the RON pluss MON divided by two (R+M/2).


But isnt the Polaris Pro capable of running some ethanol?

 

[sledhead9825]

We dont have PON. We have anti knock index number R+M/2. That is RON + MON divided by 2 = _____ . We can buy 94 R+M/2 non ethanol at the pump in most areas of western Canada .

 

[Sunvang]

We dont have PON. We have anti knock index number R+M/2. That is RON + MON divided by 2 = _____ . We can buy 94 R+M/2 non ethanol at the pump in most areas of western Canada .

Quote from Wiki.

"In most countries, including Australia and all of those in Europe[citation needed], the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON)."



Same product, two names

 

[sledhead9825]

Boyko might be hitting your 98 a little hard to 88 but he will be very close. So for conversation base your fuel around 90 octane I think is a very safe number. Typically the higher end auto manufactures ask for a 91 MON octane fuel. So I would think your premium would be close to that.

 

[mountainhorse]

100LL is not rated in the same way as automotive fuels.

MON of 100LL is around 103/104.

CLICK HERE





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[sledhead9825]

You are correct about it being PON. You just dont here it said that way over here, but makes sense. The fuel guys here say knock rating.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Sunvang, just so you know..normally any alcohol based fuel will have a higher octane rating....but they will typically run much leaner..so you will need to check/adjust for correct A/F ratio.. when we would take auto style race motors running on injected alcohol(methanol) but running twin pro fogger kits running on race gas(118 octane)we would normally tune the motor by itself(fuel injection), then tune the motor on the go gas stricktly by the nitrous fuel system..I don't know the ratio for and ethanol based fuel but I would guess you would need to be richer by at least 10% for E85....

 

[diamonddave]

We dont have PON. We have anti knock index number R+M/2. That is RON + MON divided by 2 = _____ . We can buy 94 R+M/2 non ethanol at the pump in most areas of western Canada .

But it is highly oxygenated when compared to pump 91. (Chevron 94)

 

[sledhead9825]

But it is highly oxygenated when compared to pump 91. (Chevron 94)

Correct. I personally run Shell 91 mixed at 50/50 with Trick 114. This soup works great. In saying that, the Chevron in Squamish is lined up on the weekends with guys filling up there sleds. And next to nobody with a sled at the Shell. My local Polaris dealer prefers the Shell as well. But you show people that extra 3 octane points from a dedicated hose. They are on it, like a fat kid on a smarty......

 

[Sunvang]

Sunvang, just so you know..normally any alcohol based fuel will have a higher octane rating....but they will typically run much leaner..so you will need to check/adjust for correct A/F ratio.. when we would take auto style race motors running on injected alcohol(methanol) but running twin pro fogger kits running on race gas(118 octane)we would normally tune the motor by itself(fuel injection), then tune the motor on the go gas stricktly by the nitrous fuel system..I don't know the ratio for and ethanol based fuel but I would guess you would need to be richer by at least 10% for E85....

No problem with adding more fuel on the Boondocker box, just need to fill up with the exact same mix of E85 and premium pump, or I will need to tune it after each fill.

But I can still tune after my A/F ratio gauge? THe E85 don't give me false readings of the A/F ratio?

 

[xcmark]

the only reason I would have E-85 even near my sled would be to start a brush fire in the event the sled didn't get my arss out of the woods . Even E-10 is doing damage to the fuel system , over time the rubber that comes in contact with E-10 fuel is failing! I don't suggest using E-85 to fuel a sled , your going to have problems for sure!

 

[tdbaugha]

I don't know the ratio for and ethanol based fuel but I would guess you would need to be richer by at least 10% for E85....

Stoich for pure gasoline is ~14.7/1 AFR

Stoich for E85 is ~9.8 AFR

... you'll need to add a lot more than 10% to run E85

 

[shabs]

the only reason I would have E-85 even near my sled would be to start a brush fire in the event the sled didn't get my arss out of the woods . Even E-10 is doing damage to the fuel system , over time the rubber that comes in contact with E-10 fuel is failing! I don't suggest using E-85 to fuel a sled , your going to have problems for sure!

Amen!! Ethanol is horrible for everything especially 2 strokes, I'm not sure why anyone would ever consider putting it in a snowmobile by choice. Even governments agencies are trying to back out of it now because they realize it's usless. Don't use it, it's going to attract so much moisture, guys have enough trouble with e10 I can't even imagine with e85 what it would be like.

 

[mountainhorse]

E85.... 85% Alcohol, 15% gasoline... Not sure that the Polaris map would even work with that... not sure that fuel changes alone would make this work.

On top of that... you would have to make sure that your oil is compatible with the fuel.

I think that you would have a tough time getting the Pro To run on the E85.