Not your Allstar, hardcore, high dollar build, but something different

[Kenny B]

Hey guy's, I'm new to the snow bike forums, been spending my time in the polaris turbo area.... Anyway, we were in the market for another sled(wife/backup) when a KLX650R bike came up for free across the street. Box of parts really. LOL


The previous owner had already started to update the look of the bike with 2015 KX450 Plastics, so I carried on, got a metal tank from a 08 KLX200(250), something I could cut up and mod easily. I also purchased a AC racing subframe, and air box. So here she is all dressed up.

With the body plastics all mocked up I started in on the track kit, I have the front pretty much taken care of with a Raptor X2 front end I picked up in the classifieds from a SW member. I found a thread a while back with some home built kits that looked great, so we sort of copied those designs. I hope I don't piss anyone off.


Once I had the frame mocked up I moved on to a easy ride type suspension, something I seen in the homebuilt thread, I haven't figured out if track tension is going to be a issue yet, I plan to run avid 9 tooth drivers so hopefully under compression it won't skip.


So which leads me up to last nights work, we made up some templates out of pattern boards, Machined down all the shafts to 13" long and started to mock up the kit. I don't have the sprockets yet to completely mock it up but I plan on 14-17/17-22 gearing. The 650 has a long spread in the gears, so I'm hoping to get a broad power range in 3 gear. I have a JE 10.5:1 piston and the head ported on the big thumper which should help it achieve that.

So I guess, thats pretty much it for now, not bad for being into it for 1000 bucks so far, just hooked a timbersled track on eBay for 120 bucks and shipping, my goal is to have a usable snow bike for under 3000. I'll update more when we start cutting the aluminium for the sides and all the sprockets and bearings show up.

 

[screech]

That kit looks exactly like my fist kit I built, all the way down to the suspension arm.

 

[swedenturbo]

Nice to see more home build snow bike projects on this forum!
It will not be perfect for the first time but you learn a lot as you go.
Keep up the good work!

 

[Kenny B]

Hey Screech, was your bike orange frame with black sides? If so, I probably.... more than likely built mine while looking at your photos. If thats the case, how did that particular setup work? draw backs? I hope your not pissed about me building from your pics, you do nice work and it was the best looking one that I came across. Well there is some guys in sweden building them, but I don't have a mill and lathes and the skills to make it there way. Anyway, please point me in the right direction if I'm missing a fundamental problem with the design.

 

[screech]

Hey Screech, was your bike orange frame with black sides? If so, I probably.... more than likely built mine while looking at your photos. If thats the case, how did that particular setup work? draw backs? I hope your not pissed about me building from your pics, you do nice work and it was the best looking one that I came across. Well there is some guys in sweden building them, but I don't have a mill and lathes and the skills to make it there way. Anyway, please point me in the right direction if I'm missing a fundamental problem with the design.

No I don't mind at all. Those are my pics yes. Built that when the timbersled was released. I actually still have it. The Sweden guys had contacted me about my suspension design way back when as well and that's when they started building their better version of the single arm.

It worked quite well. And still does. I had converted it over to a ts track and drivers.
















You have probably seen all those. Still sitting on the shelf ready to put the gears back on it. Maybe the wife wants to ride someday lol

 

[Kenny B]

Hey Screech, I'm glad you don't mind. I seen most of the those pics, with exception of the last one. Gas rack is a must, I'm going to make mine into the side panels for the tunnel with acouple of shafts. Yesterday my sprockets showed up so I finally got to see how well I did, everything spins fine to the jack shaft. I mocked up a tensioner for the jackshaft chain, the design is functional, but I'm not totally satisfied. Might go for a remake on it.

I have a question, I bought #50 agricultural sprockets, the stock 14 tooth is for 520 chain, which doesn't really fit the #50 sprockets, the pitch is correct, just the #50 sprockets are wider. Do you guys run a #50 chain or turn the sprockets down to a 520 tooth width and use the 520 chain?

For the chain case I'm just going to run a #50 chain.

On the suspension, I looked through the guys from swedes build threads, I see they used a type of slip joint for the main arm in the rear skid, Screech and I did not use one, there Gen 2 kit used one, and the Gen 3 does not, Was the purpose of the slip for track tension?

Thanks for all the help, we have indeed learned so much. Here are couple of pics from yesterday.


Chain Tensioner - Bad Pic

 

[swedenturbo]

Agricultural sprockets with correct pitch are unfortunately wider and will not fit the 520 chain. If you want to use the sprockets unmachined you must run 530 chain. No dirt bikes uses this chain.
I recommend that you machine down the width of the sprockets to 5.8 mm, then they'll fit 520 chain.


The slip joint you´re mentioning is for keeping track tension during all different suspension travel conditions.
The geometry of suspension arm, connection points and track length determines if it's required or not.

 

[Kenny B]

Thanks for the response SwedenTurbo, I'll have the sprockets milled down to 5.8mm when I get the driveshaft turned. I wasn't keen on using a #50 Chain on the 14 tooth output sprocket.

From my jig, I seem to develop some track slack in the rails range of motion, but nothing the avid drivers should be able to handle, if it does skip, I'll go back to the drawing board on the arm design. Back to work again here now for two weeks, so work is at a stand still to till the end of the month.
Thanks again for your help guy's, I really appreciate it.

 

[Kenny B]

Update #2 - Raptor Front End, Rear Skid

Well, I have been super flat out at work for the past few weeks, but I didi manage a night in the garage to check out a few things. The used raptor front end showed up while I was away, so naturally I wanted to see how much work, milling, new parts are required to make that fit... Well it turned out that it'll take a lot... Like a set of YZ450 forks and Triples. At this point, thats what I'm after, 2010 YZ450 forks and Triples. Then I can worry about the stem/bearings. The woman and I also managed to get the new to us track in, bought it on eBay for 125 bucks, steal of a deal. I also got a freebie fox float 3 from a new viper, scored there again. So all in all it shaping up, I need drivers, forks, some sort of air filter/pod... Theres a list, but hopefully soon I can start making the side panels.

Question, The track I have is Camoplast Part number 9184S, I measured the pitch with micrometers and get 2.52, when I roll the driver(2.52) it doesn't line up with the nubs, always a little bit short, when I roll a 2.86 driver, it hits the nub every time.... Maybe I'm over thinking this, but does anyone have the specs for said part number. it is 2" Camoplast challenger/cross country. Cut down by timbersled to 12.5".

Raptor Front End


Rear Skid Shock - Need to move upper idlers to centre


New Non-Locking Gas Cap


The woman trying it on for size.

 

[hwwee]

Nice!

Diggin the build!
If you need an intake sensor box when you fab the intake I have the stock one from timbersled if you need it! (Photos in my build thread towards the bottom) Pay for shipping and it's yours not sure if the KLR has an intake sensor!

 

[Kenny B]

Hi Hwwee, Thanks for the offer, I don't have a intake sensor, but if you want to send a pic of the intake I can have a look and more then likely take you up on the offer, I don't have anything worked out yet for a intake. I have been searching for a set of YZ450 Forks. Man they are expensive....

I wonder, can anyone tell me if a X2 dual ski for 2010 YZ450 will fit a 06-07 YZ450 forks, the price difference is massive. Like half. I emailed Raptor, but no response, I would even buy the pieces to adapt. I can't imagine them being 500 bucks, cause thats the difference in the forks.

Anyway, I'm hoping to get the caliper mounted this rotation home, see how this goes.

Edit: I just seen your build thread Harris, Man that snike is sharp. Very cool. I don't believe the intake sensor housing will be of benefit, but You intake has given me some ideas. Can't wait to get in the garage.

 

[mnsnowhawk]

I would just get a spindle and ski for the forks you have. I haven't seen one good review on the x2 front end. I'd try to sell the x2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kenny B]

Thanks for the input, and it this point I may just shelve the X2 and weld up a spindle. I based my purchase on this,

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405556

and the 400 dollar price tag. I'm in Newfoundland, which has vastly different snow then in the big mountains, really heavy, not fluff, and the fact that it floats better(Heavy bike/Motor). The low speed trail manners are another factor. The forks on the bike were less then desirable when it was made (96 KLX650R). I guess every system has pro's and cons, this is what I have for now, I believe some new forks would benefit the bike anyway, and it isn't like I'll be converting back for dirt, I can always weld up a spindle for YZ450 forks just as easy. Would still love to know if the 08 forks will work with the kit.... Hopefully someone can jump in

 

[Kenny B]

Update #3

So I managed to get a week back home, after completing the woman's list of stuff I had to do. I got a evening in the garage. I ran a bunch of numbers vs the amount of work required to get the raptor front end to work out. I believe "mnsnowhawk" was correct, there is a reason Cmx doesn't use it, nor anyone else. So it got benched, I found a guy on Kijiji in Alberta with a Yeti ski for sale and he actually hooked me up with a few other parts I was lacking. I picked up a timbersled lower spindle to ski block on eBay and started to fab my own spindle. I used some 3/8 plate and traced out the raptor spindle roughly. Made some adjustments for my setup and I think I have got somewhere. I have a lot of cutting and what not left, but the idea is there. Maybe on my next trip home I can get at the back end again.... If you guys see a serious design flaw with this setup, please let me know.

 

[Uncle si]

You will want the ski pivot point behind the axle. There are threads buried here and elsewhere on steering geometry. Further back for more stabiliy, nearly under the axle for faster turning.

Update #3

So I managed to get a week back home, after completing the woman's list of stuff I had to do. I got a evening in the garage. I ran a bunch of numbers vs the amount of work required to get the raptor front end to work out. I believe "mnsnowhawk" was correct, there is a reason Cmx doesn't use it, nor anyone else. So it got benched, I found a guy on Kijiji in Alberta with a Yeti ski for sale and he actually hooked me up with a few other parts I was lacking. I picked up a timbersled lower spindle to ski block on eBay and started to fab my own spindle. I used some 3/8 plate and traced out the raptor spindle roughly. Made some adjustments for my setup and I think I have got somewhere. I have a lot of cutting and what not left, but the idea is there. Maybe on my next trip home I can get at the back end again.... If you guys see a serious design flaw with this setup, please let me know.

 

[Kenny B]

Hey Uncle Si, Thanks for the response. I have run a few search's and found couple of threads on the subject, I believe I should make acouple of sets of holes and see what works best for the setup, I have a feeling I might need a few days on a field just to get everything adjusted. Thanks again for the comment. 2 weeks till I get home so I have lots of time to get a design figured out.

 

[screech]

Hey Uncle Si, Thanks for the response. I have run a few search's and found couple of threads on the subject, I believe I should make acouple of sets of holes and see what works best for the setup, I have a feeling I might need a few days on a field just to get everything adjusted. Thanks again for the comment. 2 weeks till I get home so I have lots of time to get a design figured out.

I built my first one and I learned fast that I wanted it moved back

 

[Kenny B]

Update Getting Closer

So I finally got some time in the garage, made a bunch of progress, tunnel sides are cut and machined. And the front spindle is competed, well welding left on all but at least it is together and standing on its two feet. Still have a list of stuff, tensioners, chain case cover, powder coating everything, antistab kit, but in reality, another solid week and it will be snow worthy. Thank for everyones input on the spindle, I moved it back a full two inch's. So it should be more stable., and if not then I'll have to make a new design, but for this year, it should work. So again, now is the time to point out my mistakes. Sorry for the crappy photos, this rig blocks photobucket....... LOL, but allows less ummm, whats the word... Graphic website access.... LOL

Edit: The photos are actually ok. First time I uploaded to snowest

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

snow bike fun on budget

met a friend and his family out in the woods today, talked a few times this fall about the snow bike he was building, we donated a track and spindle mount and some other trinkets and he was off and running.

2003 yz 450 with fresh top end, all home built using ski doo chain case brakes, 136 track we had run a couple years back, older ski doo suspension, LOOK OUT, runs great, low low seat height ? nice, good snort, we were running in 4 ft of fresh fluff, ran great, I gave it a good run, good suspension, turns as good as any 136, he had bought a new TS ski last week, we had hammered on that option several times this fall. $1500 total package and its goes " any place the other bikes have been ".

 

[Kenny B]

Hey CatSledMan, I think we spoke about a kit you were selling this summer. I have to thank you, and guys like screech, and swedenturbo, you guys were the inspiration for my build. I said well, if they have done it, then I can give it a go. I initially started out looking for a complete sled suspension, but in my neck of the woods, parts of suspensions was the best anyone could help me with in the summer. Anyway, I sure hope my kit will go places, and for the most part work. If not, I'll go back to the drawing board. I have tacked on another little item, going to TIG in some fittings to some bars I have kicking around, get some heat in them. I just have a pile of small stuff left. Which tends to be the most time consuming. Bend some conduit for coolant lines to the rear heat exchanger, finish weld all the parts, powdercoating.... Its a list, but I figure a good solid week and we'll be on the snow. I hope, might be optimistic, but you got to have goals. I also made a intake for the bike out of some old intercooler piping, it isn't my prettiest work, but once it is black, you won't even see it. Just need to make a plate to block the air box and some frog skin for the side vents and way to go. At least for now. See how it works