Not to scare everybody, but...

[muttrmk]

I am not a pessimist but a thought just came to me as the current snow conditions changed.

I wear a beacon, have a probe, shovel and friends that know how to use theirs. I am going to predict that there are going to be more and more avalanche disasters as the years go on, despite the use of this equipment. People are going to say that this equipment is making people not use good judgement as we have already heard. When people begin saying this I think that it is wise to remember that the sleds today are getting us into areas and situations that are less forgiving than when we were riding our 136" 600's.

What are your thoughts?
Do you think that we are chosing to make bad decisions or is the equipment allowing us to be on the edge at all times?

Thanks,
Mutt

 

[stevemartin]

As a mountain rider you should always be prepared. If you go into the back country without your beacon, shovel and probe you are a fool. Do you go riding without your helmet just because you think you are going to be safe that day? Of course not, you wear it everytime, because you can't predict the future. So until my crystal ball clears up, i will wear my beacon, carry a shovel and a probe, and stay away from the hills when the danger is this high. Having been burried in an avalanche before, being 100% prepared is key to having a chance at survival. So hats off to you and your friends for being prepared!

 

[PalousePoo]

I know I need to learn more about reading the conditions when I'm out. I don't hold out much hope for my friends to pull out their beacons, locate, and dig me out IN TIME. I feel prevention of getting buried is the only way to go. If I do get buried and die, my friends will know I died doing what I loved. My wife won't understand though, and that's what makes me the most cautious. Be safe everyone.

 

[jdizzle]

I think 90% of the problem is the sleds!
They keep getting lighter, longer, and more powerful.
People that don't even know how to ride are getting to the places that they shouldn't be!
The other 10% is people who don't think, think their invincible, or entoxicated

Just my opinion though...

 

[ArticDoo]

I think 90% of the problem is the sleds!
They keep getting lighter, longer, and more powerful.
People that don't even know how to ride are getting to the places that they shouldn't be!
The other 10% is people who don't think, think their invincible, or entoxicated

Just my opinion though...

Guess I could go back to my 12 hp Elan. That might cure it, but would I really be happy!... hmmm. I have to agree on the point of people just don't think it will ever happen to them, or don't think at all and it's probably a higher percentage than 10%.

 

[fxnstf]

Trama kills half of avalanche victims

According to the experts, 50% of avalanche victims die from trama received during the slide. Unfortunately only half of your buddies you dig out "IN TIME" with your beacons, probes, and shovels will be alive. Scary thought!

 

[Throttle Junkie]

I think it's both.

1) watch the sleds nowadays. Even a bone stock 09 from any of the Big 4 gets you inplaces at times you should not be. Then everyone mods them. It's not the sleds fault, the person riding, just because you can go up it don't mean you should be on it if conditions say no.

Then you watch any of the vids with the turbos and big HP. I hate to say it but almost everyone of those climbs is a big avy waiting to happen, (wind loaded chutes, cornices, and steep, steep terrain.)

2) The gear (beacons, probes and now the avy bag) give eveyone a false sense of security. I actually heard someone last year (not in our group)climb a chute come back down and say I would have never done that without a Avy backpack!!! What a idiot.

3) the sport is growing and you see more and more uneducated people in the backcountry, plus the same "experienced" idiots out thinking it's cool highmarking his buddy.

 

[RMKcowboy]

Agreed Throttle Junkie, especially on #2. I have the gear and have been to avy courses and read what I can online, but nothing is better than common sense when you are on the hill.

 

[JoHNI_T]

According to the experts, 50% of avalanche victims die from trama received during the slide. Unfortunately only half of your buddies you dig out "IN TIME" with your beacons, probes, and shovels will be alive. Scary thought!

agree, I think it might even be higher than that, if you need to use your beacon you have already made a mistake,

now about the power and weight of theese sleds, yes its true they can get ya higher theese days but a car can go double the speed limit and a crouch rocket can tripple the limit so it comes down to the rider, what I love about sledding is being on that edge (not the edge of a avi) but the edge of power to weight and being in thoose sweet spots on the hill, so for me the Power is not the problem its making sure to use my Head and hopefuly my buddies are thinking the same way.

be safe everyone and when in doubt move on

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

Park'in It

Safe riding in the high country is about parking the EGO and knowing it will be safe another day and another year. Its about making plans and not being so stupid as to belive them.........when you get there and its not good, you have to learn to accept that, take a trail ride. Dump the guys that can't live with reality.

Good riding partners will make you safer. All others.........ditch'em.

Not every stud with $20,000 is safe to hang around with.

 

[mtnpull]

I think 90% of the problem is the sleds!
They keep getting lighter, longer, and more powerful.
People that don't even know how to ride are getting to the places that they shouldn't be!
The other 10% is people who don't think, think their invincible, or entoxicated

Just my opinion though...

Sorry jdizzle, I don't agree. That is like saying that guns kill people. Behind every gun / sled is a person making decisions.

I have about 5 years of avalanche control experience with a local ski resort. Each year we had dozens of hours of in class training, on mountain training and in the field experience. The more I learned the more cautious I became, realizing that there is always a degree of unpredictability to avalanches. I think avy classes are super important, but I have found one huge weakness to them. I have talked to dozens of snowmobilers who have taken an hour long free avy awareness class and now think they know everything there is to know about avy's and how to avoid them. In other words they are a little overconfident thinking I have my shovel, probes and beacon and I have tinkered with them a little, I have been to an avy class and then once on the mountain, miss judge the conditions or fail to dig a pit or even fail to look up the latest avy forecast and someone ends up dead. I am not saying this is always the case, but I have talked to enough sledders while out riding to know that this is sometimes the case. Now that being said. I think there is a big trend of snowmobilers getting more educated and making better decisions and educating their friends and families and ultimately making wiser decisions resulting in less lives being lost. Sure the machines take us into more and more risky terrain, but ultimately it is us that decides to center punch the hillside or choose to boondock in the meadows. Be safe out there guys and make wise decisions.

 

[RMKcowboy]

Well put mtnpull, reps sent.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

Snow danger

One Sat Morning in Feb 1983 my riding partner and I pulled up at the bottom of the South bowl in the 4th canyon at Wisherd Ridge/ Sheep Mtn outside of Missoula, sitting there on our wooped 377 Skidoo Nordic's trying to gauge the avalanche danger, and up pulled Pete and his kid on their 9500 Doo's. We jumped on the snow, looked at the old slides, cut a few little sidehills and decided it was safe. The four of us cut up a lot of great powder with side hills and went home to recruit a couple more guys for Sunday monring.
Next morning when we returned, the grove of 300 year old trees and the surrounding forest was a jumble of blownup timber and snow slabs piled 15' deep on top of our Sat morning rest and test area.

25 year ago I realized human beings don't know chit about avalanches and that every 300 years every hillside will slide. AVALANCE ROULETTE!!

 

[Ultralord]

I use a beacon, shovel, probe, gps, spot and a abs the big hill creep me out when below my turbo nytro will climb most anything the rider wont. I check the forcast before we go I check the snow slabs on the hill and stay away from the big stuff when common sense tells me to. just like this weekend in washington There is no way I will go up there just to bad or if I did would stay on the flats and the hills that dont slide

 

[chelle]

where was that picture taken? I've never seen a slide like that before.

 

[RMKcowboy]

where was that picture taken? I've never seen a slide like that before.

That's Hyak near Snoqualmie Pass.

 

[doo181]

Sorry jdizzle, I don't agree. That is like saying that guns kill people. Behind every gun / sled is a person making decisions.

I have about 5 years of avalanche control experience with a local ski resort. Each year we had dozens of hours of in class training, on mountain training and in the field experience. The more I learned the more cautious I became, realizing that there is always a degree of unpredictability to avalanches. I think avy classes are super important, but I have found one huge weakness to them. I have talked to dozens of snowmobilers who have taken an hour long free avy awareness class and now think they know everything there is to know about avy's and how to avoid them. In other words they are a little overconfident thinking I have my shovel, probes and beacon and I have tinkered with them a little, I have been to an avy class and then once on the mountain, miss judge the conditions or fail to dig a pit or even fail to look up the latest avy forecast and someone ends up dead. I am not saying this is always the case, but I have talked to enough sledders while out riding to know that this is sometimes the case. Now that being said. I think there is a big trend of snowmobilers getting more educated and making better decisions and educating their friends and families and ultimately making wiser decisions resulting in less lives being lost. Sure the machines take us into more and more risky terrain, but ultimately it is us that decides to center punch the hillside or choose to boondock in the meadows. Be safe out there guys and make wise decisions.

I completely agree with this. Alot of riders have been lost in the last few years on days when people fresh from avy class proclaimed that conditions were not right for an avalanche. The more experienced I have become the less I presume to predict. Just be cautious and prepare for the worst.

 

[800Cat]

You know everything we do in life is our choice to do so. Every year people are killed in car wrecks, but we don't stop driving? If you don't feel safe doing something then don't do it. If your getting into situations you feel uncomfortable with then don't go, stay away and be the bigger man of the bunch and speak up and say somethings like maybe we shouldn't be in here or maybe we should go over there and play in those trees. Everything you do is your choice. If your afraid to die in a avy maybe we should stay away from the steep and deep and stick to something alittle more mellow. And of course no matter where you ride tho you should always be prepared for any situations. Ok thats just my .02 cents

 

[freak58trio]

where was that picture taken? I've never seen a slide like that before.

That is Hyak ski resort on Snoqualmie pass in Washington state.

 

[cowkiller]

Avalanche Hazards are Just like any other hazard in life. The more you mess with it the More your odds of being effected by the hazard increase.
There a plenty of situations in life that can be very hazardous. It is how we approach those Hazards that effects the result of an event. I do not care how much someone knows about avalanches there are too many factors to consider on what will trigger a slide with any certainty.
Certainly information,experience,knowlege,and training will HELP but will not stop a slide. It is a crap shoot at best. If it's going to slide I can't be the one to decide when it will go and I do not have enough experience to know what will cause one.
My approach is if there is a chance at all of a slide I will go have fun somewhere else. I feel like I am looking over my shoulder all the time when in avalanche country. It's alot like looking down the barrel of a loaded gun.
I don't care for it. I can have plenty of fun in safer areas.
For those of you who love to ride in those areas.
I hope your gear works for you,I hope your decisions are sound,And I hope you have the time of your life without incident.
My sled will take me there and I can ride it. I just do not like being threatened by such an advisary as Mother Nature on a regular basis.
Best of luck