Newbie Questions.......before the plunge!

[Frostbite]

I have been reading a bunch about snowbikes and now I have some questions.

1. The Husberg FE570 sounds like one heck of a bike. However, with the dubious future of the brand, I am concerned there may not be the parts availability to keep the super torquey 70 degree motors on the snow long term. Is this a legitimate concern?

2. I am looking for a snowbike that I can put a license plate on to use in the summer to connect trails or maybe even adventure tour. That leads me toward potentially street legal bikes similar to the WR450. However, I keep reading that bikes with close ratio transmissions work better as snowbikes. Am I better off trying to make a YZ450 like bike street legal?

3. Why not a Supermoto? They already have the headlight, tail light, horn and the electrical capacity to easily support hand warmers. However, I would guess they would have a wide ratio transmission? I see both Husky and Husberg bigbore Super Motos and I like the fact that I might even be able to touch the ground. Why would a supermoto be a bad idea?

4. I am really starting to see a divergence between the European bike crowd and the Japanese bike crowd. I get the impression that Japanese bikes are almost looked upon as "starter bikes" in a snowbike application. I have had good luck with Yamaha and Honda products in the past and I have to wonder if the European bikes are worth the extra money? We may need popcorn for this one?

I am looking mainly great power combined with nimbleness and flickability. I am thinking the Mountain Horse ST kit at this point?

So far my potential bike list seems to be slimming down to the Husaberg FE570, Husky TXC511, KTM SXF450, KTM 450 XC-W and the Kawasaki KX450. Of course there is always the Yamaha YZ450 and WR450.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I think the hard thing for me when eyeing up a bike is the MX 450 bikes are so easy to come across, and at good prices, and they will take some insane abuse, makes it almost worth getting a dedicated bike for snow. I just grabbed a 11 yz for i bet half of what you could find any of those "exotics" for. they work killer and its what I prefer in the summer. The bike i just got and an ST kit would be what your into any of those bikes brand new or even lightly used. They have enough power for basic upgrades like grips. etc.

 

[Rush44]

Here is the thing... every single bike you mentioned would make a good snowbike. As long as the bike isn't a pig heavy beast you will be fine. You can always trade bikes and all it costs you is a new $300 fit kit to adapt your kit. My advice is to buy something you like (my first bike was a WR450) and then make your judgment call once you have some additional perspective. What I like might not be what you like. I really could care less about grip warmers but for some people it's nearly a deal breaker. I want my bike to transition over to summer use but other people don't care about summer and have a dedicated snowbike. There is no RIGHT answer... there is only the answer that works for you and what you want.

Don't break the bank on your first bike. I've had 3 bikes in 3 seasons and I still don't have a clear favorite. If I had to choose a Jap bike that worked awesome for me in both the summer and winter it's the KX450F. It's proven, reliable, and transitions to summer dirt riding very well. As far as the ST/LT debate goes you can always upgrade a ST to the LT for about the same price as the cost difference between ST/LT when new (yes, it's a little more expensive but not by a large margin).

Bottom line, just get something going before dem hills are powder white.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks guys. Great points!

I am starting to think I might be better off buying a Mountain Horse kit before the bike? They seem to be in incredible demand.

But then I would have to decide which kit?

It's too bad my TTR225 or my BMW F650 won't work well with a mountain horse kit....

 

[teal_210]

Here's my .02 cents

1. Yes - I would be concerned about a bike that will likely no-longer be made with no local dealer support.

2. I'm a huge fan of MX bikes for snowbikes, the explosive nature of them combined with the close-ratio tranny makes them the funnest to ride. However if I wanted a plated bike in the summer time and a good snowbike - I would go with a KTM 500. Converting a MX bike is too much hassle for me. The off-road or dual sport bikes rev to slow for me - seems tame and boring.

3. Most are too heavy, plain and simple.

4. Are the Euro bikes better or worth more money? no. Their owners just think they are. They spent a pile of money on that shiny new bike so they like to tell everyone how awesome it is.

5. ST is the most popular kit because it flat works. I'm going to try the SX this season, you will not find an LT on my bike - ever!

I'm in the Post Falls area - let me know if you want to try out a RMZ with an SX!!

 

[1dn5up]

depends on the rider but I went from a 6" ski to the 10" and went to the long track at the sametime didnt notice any less handling with the long track.

I would sugest buying a kit asap before they are all gone for the season

 

[Frostbite]

Sorry, I have to rant about something. I am trying to educate myself on these bikes and I have been to the KTM website a couple times, and what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. They have plenty of number and letter designations on their bikes but, no real explanation of what it all means. Very frustrating!

I even did the comparison on the website and it didn't yield any useful information either. Then I tried to look for a used KTM and there are EXCs that I believe are now called XC-W but, in the end I still don't understand KTM.

 

[Moto4Life]

Sorry, I have to rant about something. I am trying to educate myself on these bikes and I have been to the KTM website a couple times, and what a bunch of mumbo jumbo. They have plenty of number and letter designations on their bikes but, no real explanation of what it all means. Very frustrating!

I even did the comparison on the website and it didn't yield any useful information either. Then I tried to look for a used KTM and there are EXCs that I believe are now called XC-W but, in the end I still don't understand KTM.

KTM is easy man

SX - Motocross/Supercross
XC - Cross Country
EXC - Cross Country/Street, basically a XC with tail lights and a headlight.

SX have close ratio tranny and usually a bit more torque as mx riders need/want it.

XC has wider ratio tranny and usually tuned down a bit, I assume to be just a bit more reliable, not the SX is VERY reliable.

EXC same as XC with lights.

There is a bit more to it that that but these are the real differences.

Also just a note, ktms a bit higher on the quality side than the jap bikes, though not by as much any more they still have the edge. No this is not a I paid more and mine is better(in fact I probably paid less than anybody with a jap bike did). Its just in how they design and manufacture everything on the bike that makes them so tough. So yes they are worth a bit more. I also really like the quality of Kawasaki, just not quite as much as ktm, if so I would be riding green.

 

[prosports]

Long Track.

In our group and in Coast mountains of BC, LT is the only way to go.
The days there is ST's are in our group. we constantly waiting for them, and they just can't make it up same hills.
It is usually followed by how much to upgrade my ST to a LT question !

For those that think a ST will go anywhere a LT goes the invite is there to come ride with us for the day... PS we may or may not point and laugh at you!

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks Moto4life, that helps a lot!

So what is an XC-W? What does the "W" mean? Wide ratio gearing? 6th gear?

So I see there is a XC-F and a XCF-W?

It looks like one would want a 450XC-F - Motocrosser?

Or maybe a 450XC-w or a 500XC-W?

Then there is the 500EXC. That looks like a bike I could use in the summer on the road.

It looks like I would want a EXC. Now I am wondering, is the 350EXC enough bike to spin a Mountain Horse kit?

How do these models designations transfer to the used market?

 

[Moto4Life]

Ya the xc-w is the wide ratio, and no its not really the bike for motocross, the sx is the bike for that. Also the exc is the bike you would duel sport, in fact it is practically a duel sport and can be made so very easily.

I have not ridden an xc as a snowbike, I own all motocross bikes so I don't really know how the wide ratio works with them.

I think you have to decide, do a want a dirt bike that can be made a snow bike, or a snow bike that can be a dirt bike. Im a dirt bike die hard. Its has consumed my life and is slowly taking over the whole family. So what makes a good dirt bike comes first.

Oh I forgot to mention the xc and the sx have very differant suspension setup. Externally they look and work the same but internally the suspension on the xc is set to enduro and the suspension on the sx is set to moto. A friend of mine who ride alot of both go the sx and bought a set of xc forks and an xc shock. So he can ride the best bike for any conditions. Think Ebay on that one!

 

[rjj]

Frostbite, send me a PM and I will set you straight on KTM. And yes, I feel they are worth more because simply put they give you more and work better than most I have ridden. I am speaking of dirt off road applications.

300XC A Enduro and Off Road racer.

 

[Rush44]

Frostbite, send me a PM and I will set you straight on KTM. And yes, I feel they are worth more because simply put they give you more and work better than most I have ridden. I am speaking of dirt off road applications.

300XC A Enduro and Off Road racer.

I just went up to Penco and checked out the 6 Days Edition 300EXC... wow, just about the sickest bike I've ever seen! I want it!

 

[Frostbite]

PM sent RJJ.

What I am learning is basically buy whatever brand of 450 moto-crosser you like the color of the plastic best on and just ride it!

If you want to spend the extra $ for fuel injection, fine but it's not necessary.

Maybe I need a motorcrosser with a street legal kit. I can just see riding a YZ450 on the street...yipee.....that's why I keep asking about a supermoto.

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

my experience

I have for this year a 07 aprilia sxv550 super moto. got it this spring and was by far the most fun i have had on a bike for along time.. ride rockets and cruisers.
My friend has a 09 kx450 we converted to super moto. exact same feeling i got most fun ever.
supermoto bikes dont sit any lower once snow converted because the kit lifts them back up into the air. tried to keep the sxv low and its not possible even with home built kit because of clearances.

I do feel the mx bikes are a better choice. light weight and snappy.
aprilia is just as snappy as kx 450 with more power and electrics there for summer and accessories.

On a side not the kit im building for 08 rmz450 will sit 2.5inches lower than kx450 because of the way i built subframe..

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks for the PM RJJ and also thank you Snowhawk!

Right now I am thinking I may buy a bike to suit the bike for my summer plans for now and if I fall head over heels in love with snowbiking, then I will buy a a bike more specifically tailored for the snow.

That being said, I think a WR450, a EXC450 or a similar model from another brand may be best for now?

 

[Cberg]

The XC or XC-F isn't a wide ratio tranny, it's a close ratio some years are 6 speed, some 5, suspension on an XC is setup somewhat like an SX, more stiffer spring rates and different valving than an XC-W, not quite as stiff as the SX but definetely not as soft as the XC-W. The XC is a bike you could take on a track and hit some pretty big jumps with no problem at all.

Confused yet????

 

[dhdey]

The XC or XC-F isn't a wide ratio tranny, it's a close ratio some years are 6 speed, some 5, suspension on an XC is setup somewhat like an SX, more stiffer spring rates and different valving than an XC-W, not quite as stiff as the SX but definetely not as soft as the XC-W. The XC is a bike you could take on a track and hit some pretty big jumps with no problem at all.

Confused yet????

you nailed it !

i was just reading through all this miss-information and about to type in exactly what you just did.

if i had the budget i would say the 450 XC-F is the best option there is for a snow bike. most powerful 4 stoke ever made, just 60hp stock, close ratio tranny but has the bigger tank and lots of juice to power handwarmers and lights

 

[Moto4Life]

Yep, you guys right, I had my trannies mixed up. Not sure about the xc on the track though. It can ride the track but not setup the best for it. Also the amount of gears really depends on year more than anything. My 250sxf's have 6 speed and the 14's i believe have 5.


I just did some research and turns out my info is a few years old. The new XC are using the same shock and forks as the SX with differant valving. That is very exciting, might see a new 450xc in my future for sure! Last I looked the specs where quite a bit differant but that was a couple years ago.

 

[thnewell]

Im confused as to why people say supermotos would be to heavy I think thats totally wrong. I ride a husky 510 smr. Its not too heavy at all. KTM made a 560 smr that I think would make an amazing snowbike over 60 hp stock 2007 is that best year for that bike. the good supermotos are just not made anymore. Husky made amazing supermoto bikes that are fuel injected from 08'-10' the 510 is near 60hp when set up right, as well as street legal, with a wet weight of 230# this is when husky was owned buy MV Augusta. I'm biased as I own three husky supermotos and 06 510 an 06 610 and an 08 510 set up with a MH. I also ride my supermoto on single track in CO so some people would call me crazy. I'm just a total supermotojunkie.