New Pro: Replace pistons now or later

[polaris girl]

piston

I thought we all bought new sleds so we would be under warranty. Well at least I did . I will ride it two years sell it ,get a new one & yes it will be under warranty again.

 

[sketch96]

Its a tough deal for sure. Some blow some dont. It does make a guy wonder why the polaris motor doesnt make the power the others do. They have made the rest of the sled awesome but for some reason they are being very conservative on the output of the powerplant. If this sled made the 160plus hp the other 2 do, it would be in a class by itself. No one would look at a cat or doo! The sales would be incredible, but they wont take that step. Wonder why!

My 2012 has 1000miles now and I looked through the exhaust ports and from what I can see everything looks great so far. I do warm it up and never take off cold. I have not mixed the gas or turned up the pump, but for this season I will be doing both. I have run amsoil interceptor oil since the beginning.

 

[OutWest]

Anybody that has lost a motor and then has somebody tell them that they are whining, get over it, is gonna take it personally.

Yes, over a dozen. Polaris did 9 pistons, 3 monoblocks, and various other parts on my '08 and blew the bottom out of the case with only 3,000 miles. Now the '11 needs another block and a set of pistons. The '12 required a complete motor, and you want to shift the blame to oil?

I agree that alot of people don't "see" any motor problems, they simply don't put on enough miles, sell it, trade it before the catastrophic failure takes place. The fact is that several of the motors that I have personally pulled apart are at the outer limits of clearances when new, and in the case of my perfectly running '11, it was double the clearance with only 2,000 miles. If you think that is ok, then I am whining.

I asked what oil you used, i wasn`t saying it was the oil. Can you read?

Alot of people "don`t see" any problems because they dont put enough miles on it? Come on dude, there is alot of people with alot miles without any problems at all! And i am not talking about 200-300 miles. This is why i really wonder how the hell you manage to even think of having a polaris. If you were right, polaris would be bankrupt in no time, thats nothing but a fact. I could say it in another way, you are exaggerating to much. It sounds like every polaris is doomed and everyone that buys a 800 cfi needs a fix kit.. No thanks.

 

[bobgrmkpro]

The 2012 Pro's in my group (8 sleds with 163 tracks) all engines are stock and none have not had any engine problems what so ever. My Pro had 1150 miles on it and I only changed spark plugs once. I can't say enough good things about the Polaris Pro sled. I've owned 3 Ski Doos, 4 Arctic Cats and 5 Polaris Mt. sleds since 1998 and the Pro is by far the best of all in terms of reliability, handling, fuel and oil economy that I have owned.

 

[knifedge]

--If your cylinder clearances are good, then maybe you do not need a "fix kit". But how are you going to know unless you check it out? Unless you check out the cylinders, your just assuming everything is OK.

--RKT pistons also add power to the weak motor with tighter clearances AND port timing. The OEM pistons actually obstruct the ports and hinder flow.

--The engineering genius of the Pro 800 engine-
-poor cylinder cooling
-loose piston/cylinder clearances
-poor piston design - obstruct intake ports
-poor fuel injection placement
-lower quality crankshaft / bearings on 11's - 12's -- 13's are upgraded to Fuji cranks
-about 15 - 20HP lower than industry standard 160HP for 800 2 stroke

-4 year warranty -- the best

--Thankfully, clutching and drivetrain is pretty efficient

 

[knifedge]

The 2012 Pro's in my group (8 sleds with 163 tracks) all engines are stock and none have not had any engine problems what so ever. My Pro had 1150 miles on it and I only changed spark plugs once. I can't say enough good things about the Polaris Pro sled. I've owned 3 Ski Doos, 4 Arctic Cats and 5 Polaris Mt. sleds since 1998 and the Pro is by far the best of all in terms of reliability, handling, fuel and oil economy that I have owned.

--I would reconsider the value of "oil economy"

 

[Oregonsledder]

This seems to be the way these threads go. A guy posts a question that seems to be based on fear that their PRO engine is going to blow up if they don’t do something, based on internet hysteria. Then someone who is or has had a serious problem shows up and makes it sound like many Polaris PRO engines take a dump and in fact Polaris makes a crappy engine. Then guys like me try to express some perspective on the failure rates and the guys with the problems don’t want to hear it. It's kind of like the old saying “MISERY LOVES COMPANY”. I can assure you that if my PRO engine blows up I will post a factual post to possibly help others, and then I will fix it and ride the pizz out of it! I won’t bash Polaris. If I felt they made junk I would buy another brand.

 

[jeepin270]

To all the guys that have had great luck so far, I wish you the best this year. I wouldn't wish what I have been through on any sledder. For the first time since I got my first rebuild back, I will ride with peace of mind. I got my fix from the guy that should be Polaris #1 engineer.

 

[skibreeze]

Typical, shoot the messenger attitude. You guys are missing my point. Bragging about 1150 miles, that's expected, not something to brag about. I could have not torn it down and bragged about how great my Pro is, but instead, I tore it down to find what so many of you seem to believe impossible. My point is, why are so many motors at .008-.0010" clearance with only 2,000 miles? How about somebody tell me that they have 4,000 miles within Polaris' spec.

 

[Going West]

The scary thing is that lots of these sleds run just fine right up to the time they go, I bought a used 11 with 950 miles on it. It ran perfect the whole first day, then on the ride down it dropped a cylinder skirt into the crank and toasted the whole motor.

Point is that just because you have X amount of miles on and it hasn't failed yet, doesn't mean you are clear and free and have a good motor. If your out of warranty I would be checking every season. If it was just a top end that fails then I might risk it and just ride but when there is a good chance the the failure will cost a entire drop in, then its worth the effort to check it out.

 

[skibreeze]

The scary thing is that lots of these sleds run just fine right up to the time they go, I bought a used 11 with 950 miles on it. It ran perfect the whole first day, then on the ride down it dropped a cylinder skirt into the crank and toasted the whole motor.

Point is that just because you have X amount of miles on and it hasn't failed yet, doesn't mean you are clear and free and have a good motor. If your out of warranty I would be checking every season. If it was just a top end that fails then I might risk it and just ride but when there is a good chance the the failure will cost a entire drop in, then its worth the effort to check it out.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

 

[knifedge]

--If your cylinder clearances are good, then maybe you do not need a "fix kit". But how are you going to know unless you check it out? Unless you check out the cylinders, your just assuming everything is OK.

--RKT pistons also add power to the weak motor with tighter clearances AND port timing. The OEM pistons actually obstruct the ports and hinder flow.

--The engineering genius of the Pro 800 engine-
-poor cylinder cooling
-loose piston/cylinder clearances
-poor piston design - obstruct intake ports
-poor fuel injection placement
-lower quality crankshaft / bearings on 11's - 12's -- 13's are upgraded to Fuji cranks
-about 15 - 20HP lower than industry standard 160HP for 800 2 stroke

-4 year warranty -- the best

--Thankfully, clutching and drivetrain is pretty efficient

--If you at least know what you may be dealing with in the first place, you can be proactive and stay away from a potentially bad situation.

--The Pro is a great chassis and deserves a better engine

 

[Sxrlar]

I have a 2012 that I bought in February, it now has 296 miles on it, I am just going to run it. I am friends with a guy who lives where I ride, he has a 2011 Switchback 144 800, mostly trail, some off trail kind of rider, after his injection problems were fixed, he rode and rode and rode and rode and rode. He now has 9000 miles on it, with no engine failure.

If mine goes down, it goes down, then I will think about the aftermarket options.

 

[kmo]

Tear into a new sled's engine and void the engine warranty? No way......
I have numerous friends that ride Polaris 800's, all the way back to the Dragon's and I have yet to hear of a failure. Sure, there are some failures out there but the true percentage is very low compared to non- failures. Ride it, enjoy it, and when you are at the end of your warranty decide then if it is worth the money or not.

 

[LongHorn XC]

There are so many Pro's that have had "ZERO" problems.

Come on guys, why can't you just ride the sled until the warranty is up and then tear down the engine. Let Polaris deal with the worn out parts during the warranty.

I have been riding Poo for 15 years now and have never had to do anything to any engine besides freshing up the top ends. On my trail sleds - every 5K miles. On my Mountain sleds - every 2.5K miles.

I own a 2012 with 3000 miles. I tore into the topend and found that the pistons were sloppy and rings were shot. Replaced with some top notch pistons with the proper fit and Wha-La, I'm good to go for another long tour.

I'm huge into the maintenance of sleds and where you store them. Out of these engine failures, do we know what maintenance was done and where they were stored? Was there proper summer storage maintenance done? Storage prep, I believe plays a huge part in well running sled. If one bearing has a small spot of rust, well you will find out soon what happens. Rust only spreads.

My pistons out of the 12 were the worst I have ever seen. I do believe Poo could do much better engineering, but I think they are making the engine on the sloppy end for a reason. How many riders "Really Take Care" of the sled like they should. I have seen a lot of used sled that look like they went to war. Does everyone do proper warm-ups, no. Do people worry about the "Cold Shock", no. Why do you think these engines are on the sloppy end? They need to look at who is riding them!!

All of my sleds look brand new, even with 12K miles on them. If the outside (including engine compartment) is clean like the day it was new, I bet the inside of the engine looks the same. The owner takes care of his equipment and spends many of hours in the garage with the sled.

If you were wondering, here is a picture of my pistons. Does anyone else have pistons with 3K miles on them looking like this? I bet you do, but there was still not failure.

The one on the left is from the 2012 Poo.

 

[gunnerthesnowman]

There are so many Pro's that have had "ZERO" problems.

Come on guys, why can't you just ride the sled until the warranty is up and then tear down the engine. Let Polaris deal with the worn out parts during the warranty.

I have been riding Poo for 15 years now and have never had to do anything to any engine besides freshing up the top ends. On my trail sleds - every 5K miles. On my Mountain sleds - every 2.5K miles.

I own a 2012 with 3000 miles. I tore into the topend and found that the pistons were sloppy and rings were shot. Replaced with some top notch pistons with the proper fit and Wha-La, I'm good to go for another long tour.

I'm huge into the maintenance of sleds and where you store them. Out of these engine failures, do we know what maintenance was done and where they were stored? Was there proper summer storage maintenance done? Storage prep, I believe plays a huge part in well running sled. If one bearing has a small spot of rust, well you will find out soon what happens. Rust only spreads.

My pistons out of the 12 were the worst I have ever seen. I do believe Poo could do much better engineering, but I think they are making the engine on the sloppy end for a reason. How many riders "Really Take Care" of the sled like they should. I have seen a lot of used sled that look like they went to war. Does everyone do proper warm-ups, no. Do people worry about the "Cold Shock", no. Why do you think these engines are on the sloppy end? They need to look at who is riding them!!

All of my sleds look brand new, even with 12K miles on them. If the outside (including engine compartment) is clean like the day it was new, I bet the inside of the engine looks the same. The owner takes care of his equipment and spends many of hours in the garage with the sled.

If you were wondering, here is a picture of my pistons. Does anyone else have pistons with 3K miles on them looking like this? I bet you do, but there was still not failure.

The one on the left is from the 2012 Poo.

So , what piston or who,s piston kit do you use when you do your top end on your 2012 pro 800?

 

[LongHorn XC]

So , what piston or who,s piston kit do you use when you do your top end on your 2012 pro 800?

I did some research and decided to go with RKT's. They were very nice to work with. He spent 20 minutes on the phone talking about other places to improve performance.

The pistons are top notch. I took them to my "Guy" that checked all the clearances and blueprinted everything. Found that the stock Poo cylinders were tapered and fixed that. The pistion clearances and weights are perfect.

The only problem, is the price. My "Guy" can get the exact same pistons for $70 cheaper for the pair.

I have a second topend rebuild (Artic Cat) going on and will be putting these same pistons in. Another fellow rider had split pistons last year will be going with the same.

 

[RKT]

I did some research and decided to go with RKT's. They were very nice to work with. He spent 20 minutes on the phone talking about other places to improve performance.

The pistons are top notch. I took them to my "Guy" that checked all the clearances and blueprinted everything. Found that the stock Poo cylinders were tapered and fixed that. The pistion clearances and weights are perfect.

The only problem, is the price. My "Guy" can get the exact same pistons for $70 cheaper for the pair.

I have a second topend rebuild (Artic Cat) going on and will be putting these same pistons in. Another fellow rider had split pistons last year will be going with the same.

Thanks for the kind words regarding the service and quality of the parts you recieved from RK Tek Inc..

One thing to note.. The "off the shelf" Wossner pistons and the ones we offer are quite different.
Please do not ask what the difference are because that information is kept confidential (for good reasons).. We spent the last 7 years developing the pistons we offer.
We have special "things" that are associated with our custom piston line. So, when you do the Arctic Cat pistons, please be aware of that..
We do not offer any direct replacement arctic cat pistons so, this is no sales pitch to get out A/C pistons.. because we do not have any for stock bore sizes...

Good luck with your engine this year.. glad we could help

Kelsey

 

[LongHorn XC]

Thanks for the kind words regarding the service and quality of the parts you recieved from RK Tek Inc..

One thing to note.. The "off the shelf" Wossner pistons and the ones we offer are quite different.
Please do not ask what the difference are because that information is kept confidential (for good reasons).. We spent the last 7 years developing the pistons we offer.
We have special "things" that are associated with our custom piston line. So, when you do the Arctic Cat pistons, please be aware of that..
We do not offer any direct replacement arctic cat pistons so, this is no sales pitch to get out A/C pistons.. because we do not have any for stock bore sizes...

Good luck with your engine this year.. glad we could help

Kelsey

Thanks for clarifing the pistons. I was sort of wondering on "the changes" as well. I thought yours might be a bit differnent. I will be able to compare yours to the other stock Wossner's that my buddy is installing.

I wish you had pistions for a 900 Cat. I would still buy yours for the extra $70, I'm not one that goes the cheap way. I want it done right the first time.

I was very impressed with the time you spent with me on the phone. You are very classy in your posts and do know what you are talking about.

Your pistons were within 1 gram of eachother too - nice.

Chad

 

[Vfrtrader]

The pistons are top notch. I took them to my "Guy" that checked all the clearances and blueprinted everything. Found that the stock Poo cylinders were tapered and fixed that. The pistion clearances and weights are perfect.

Could you elaborate on how your guy fixes tapered cylinders? Could you elaborate on your guy? I could use a guy with a Pro in the shed.