Why is it that Yamaha knows that they need to lighten their four stroke machines up and they have not done it! They have a perfect motor in the YZF 450 motor to marry like the did the 250 F motor in the phazer. They need to develop a light weight mountain machine that is 160 horse twin in a beefed up phazer chassis- then they would have something that everyone would buy! Love all models Yamaha for fit and finish and longevity- but weight is an issue. Please build a machine that weighs 500 pounds with a 160 horse! Turbo this and get 250 horses out of a twin that is not nose heavy- we would really have something! Cum on Yamaha!
New 2012 Yamaha??
- Thread starter mtmaxmadman
- Start date
The 450 motor is far from 160HP!!
Even 2 450s put together your still around 100hp hardly worth the effort..I doubt they'll start with a whole new engine..
They could push more ponnies out of nytro motor then lighten up heavy parts maybe , a-arms, rear skid, drop brackets, battery etc. Drop a few pounds but its still heavy with all the auxillary parts you need for these thumpers..
They have made some good changes since my 08 but shes still a tank even with the light weight stuff and boost.. Like i tell the boys add boost and deal with the weight
or add boost to your 2 smoke and rebuild and wrench 
!!
They could push more ponnies out of nytro motor then lighten up heavy parts maybe , a-arms, rear skid, drop brackets, battery etc. Drop a few pounds but its still heavy with all the auxillary parts you need for these thumpers..
They have made some good changes since my 08 but shes still a tank even with the light weight stuff and boost.. Like i tell the boys add boost and deal with the weight
or add boost to your 2 smoke and rebuild and wrench !!
H
hurricane2
Active member
It's not like they need earth-shattering weight loss. A guy can get a Nytro to 520lbs in his garage with bolt on parts, and that is with a decent size battery. They should have no problem hitting 520 from the factory with a minimal price increase. This is 30lbs more than a Summit Freeride so they would be in the ballpark. Combine it with a new high output 4 cyl and they would have a sled that would be kicking ***. With the economy and such, I am not expecting much though.
Whatever!
Right now the phazer is a 500 twin which is based on two yzf 250 CC dirtbike motors married and produces 80 horses. Nearly double that and 150 to 160 horse could be possible. I have a WR450 dirtbike with a hot cam and pipe that produces nearly 65 horses with minimal done to it.
The two 450's was talked about over on TY and from what I understood by the time they would have to add a counterbalance shaft to this set up because of the bigger pistons/cylinders they would be close to the weight of the Nytro motor.
a very common misconception is that the 500 phazer motor is 2 yzf 250's slapped together when it it hardly even close to that. Yamaha stated this mutliple times that the motor is not such but the 500 had design cues from the 250. So its not as simple as slappin 2 450s and callin it good. If the idea woulda worked they woulda done it by now.
Yes yamaha does wat is cost efficient even if that means not releasing something, but for the most part the R&D ppl are alot smarter than us and they know what works and what doesn;t, thus why yamaha has far less recalls and issues than anyone else. its not easy dropping weight and still having a platform that will handle the abuse along with spupport the extra weight and torque of a 4 stroker. Unlike other brands i'm glad my yammie doesn;t come out of the box lite enough that chassis parts start failing before suspension parts unlike with 2 smokers.
Yes yamaha does wat is cost efficient even if that means not releasing something, but for the most part the R&D ppl are alot smarter than us and they know what works and what doesn;t, thus why yamaha has far less recalls and issues than anyone else. its not easy dropping weight and still having a platform that will handle the abuse along with spupport the extra weight and torque of a 4 stroker. Unlike other brands i'm glad my yammie doesn;t come out of the box lite enough that chassis parts start failing before suspension parts unlike with 2 smokers.
Wet weight( you know the weight we ride our sleds at ) between the pz and nytro mtx's is only 20lbs difference.
We all know there is weight that can be shaved out of the chassis. guys have replaced parts that are lighter and stronger. It is hard to pay for a 630lb sled that is just dependable, I agree they need to come our way a little more than just a ligher rear skid.
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clay hale
New member
i have a yfz motor same as wr you speek of. it has a plus 2mm larger than stock ti valve head cost of over $3500 dollars with porting and larger 48mm carb flange welded on.motor has ceramic bearings thru out cost of $800 for them,larger adjustable cams. had to have cases cryro treated so could handle double horse power over stock.crank shaft stroked 10.5mm over stock rod is falicon knife rod way more cost so have lost track of $ss spent on this motor. cylinder 100mm tall cylinder to compensate long stroke.plus programable ignition so you can adjust timing curves for all motor or n2o shot. there is a ton more here i have not mentioned this motor makes 52hp all motor on a dyno in idaho with 30hp shot of nitros it makes 82hp . long story but the bike motors dont compare to the sleds and they would have to get alot more hp fom them .
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Turbo11T
Well-known member
i would rather have a sled that is 30-40lbs heavier and lasts more than 5 years than have a lighter sled that you have to replace evey 2 years or tunnel that folds up like a tin can! im fat and if i want my sled 30lbs lighter ill go on a diet
haha, I am fat too. I could lose 30lbs in a couple months and actually probally save money, I love fast food, and pop.
I don't think your seeing 65 hp with those few mods. Not trying to insult you, just being realistic.
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hurricane2
Active member
Besides the fact that a big twin would be hard pressed to make 160HP, Yamaha needs 180HP+ if they are going to try and play with the other brands stock for stock. You know they are going to be heavier and more expensive than the 2 smokes so they better be packin' some HP if they want people to move over from other brands. If they dont give the consumer something great soon they should just pull out of mountain sleds. Imagine the poor dealers who have to explain why durability alone is why a person should part with $12,499 for a sled that is $1500 more, 120lbs heavier and 10 hp down on a new RMK. Dont get me wrong, I love the solid feeling and confidince (to get back to the truck) my Nytro MTX gives me, but in stock or near stock form it dosent hold a candle to the performance of a current 800.
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Yamaha sells 4 strokes. Thats there selling point. There reliable, fun and still get the job done. Yeah maybe not as well as the lighter 2 strokes but even when i rode a fairly stock nytro it was still more fun then when i had my 2 strokes. Plus a nytro with a few mods is right there with the 2 strokes, might not get the himark but wont get left behind either. Sledding isnt all about the himark. Not worrying about oil, plugs, belts or even just getting off the mountain is priceless. Then comes the turbo. I personally doubt ill ever turbo a 2 stroke. Its the mechanic in me that just sees problems. So as of right now im a Yamaha 4 stroke fan. Boosted or not.
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twincam88
Well-known member
yamaha isnt about doing some r&d for 3 months then releasing the sled. they were working on these 4 strokes when the old v-max 4 came out. they do alot of r&d to make sure their product doesnt suck before they release it to the public. so dont be surprised if nothing is new this year. just wait a few years and see what comes out. if you cant wait then go buy a polaris cause they seem to come out with something new every 2 months then.....it blows up hahahaha
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hurricane2
Active member
yamaha isnt about doing some r&d for 3 months then releasing the sled. they were working on these 4 strokes when the old v-max 4 came out. they do alot of r&d to make sure their product doesnt suck before they release it to the public. so dont be surprised if nothing is new this year. just wait a few years and see what comes out. if you cant wait then go buy a polaris cause they seem to come out with something new every 2 months then.....it blows up hahahaha
The only problem is from a preformance standpoint they do suck. Dont get me wrong I know the other brands are disposable and I own a Nytro and a Viper but they are not in the ballpark up on hill off the showroom floor and they cost more to boot. They dont do any thing special in the resale department either, just look in the swapmeet. If I were a dealer I would have a hard time paying Yamaha for sleds that cost more and have less perfomance than the dealer sells down the street. I'm just saying they should do thier dealers a favor and **** or get off the pot in the mountain sled segment. If you want have great reliability you could just start with a short track Yamaha and build a mountain sled, lots of people (myself included) spend $$$ to replace the POS track and heavy suspension anyways.
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twincam88
Well-known member
they may have less performance than the sled down the street but do you have to rebuild it after 2000 miles? so lets say for argument sake that you buy a new....cat m1000 it cost around what $12000? where as a nytro mtx is what? 14000? so you go out and pound the shat out of that m1000 for 2000 miles and have to pay for oil and rebuild after that. im not picking on cat and saying they only get 2000miles on a motor but you know what im saying. yamaha is not about having their motors run on the ragged edge they leave that up to us. they build a sled to last and that is worth the extra $$$$ to me anyways.
p.s. i hope they add an extra 50lbs to the sled!!
p.s. i hope they add an extra 50lbs to the sled!!
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