Need some Turbo Tuning Help

[Arctic Thunder]

Ill be calling Shain also but wanted to get some opinions here also.

Have a Twisted kit running the 3076 Race gas turbo on a 09 M1000. Running 10psi boost on 100LL av gas.

Attitude Box controller. (Red/Blue is the boost setting on this box)
Green = .5
Yellow = .5
Red = .5
Green Blue = .5
Yellow Blue = 1
Red Blue =5

40psi fuel pressure at idle. 1-1 ratio, goes to 50 psi at 10 lbs of boost.

-5 deg F
7500' elev
11.8 AF on a hard pull
12.5-13.5 on the trail no load

Sled will pull hard from a dead stop, but if I back out of the throttle even a little bit it will NOT pick it back up. I have tried about every setting I can think of.

I have moved the Yellow blue transistion point from .5 to 6 and it will not run. Much worse as I move the transistion point up.

I felt I had it pretty close last weekend, but now this weekend it is right back where I started. Last weekend I had the transition point to high and when I backed out of it it wouldn't pick it up. As soon as I dropped the transision down to 1.5 it freeeking ripped. So I thought I had it nailed. Well this weekend back to the same old crap. again I have bounced the Yellow/blue all over the map.

I am open to any ideas. I started with Shains base settings it wouldn't even run. I have compared my numbers with others and my numbers are a lot lower then theirs. But my AF numbers are right were they should be.

So give me some ideas.

Thanks.

Thunder

Here is a video clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2a0cKVKImU&feature=youtu.be

 

[dvst8r]

AF stays consistent compared to when it runs well, as to throughout the video???

 

[dvst8r]

One other thing you could try that will add some adjustability to your setup, as you seem to be at the bottom end of pretty much all of your numbers. Is to drop your base pressure from 40psi down to 35psi or so, you will then obviously have to richen up all of your settings to accommodate for the less fuel across the board. That should at least put you more into the usable range of the attitude box though.

 

[SLEDIOT]

I had a similar issue with my 2011 twisted 1000. In the vid it sounds almost like maybe its loaded up with fuel. Does it make it to full boost? If so check your pipe for a crack that might be opening up as it spools more boost. Mine did this and it made it act the same way as yours. I had a cracked/broken pipe. I may be way off but check it anyways. Good luck

 

[Arctic Thunder]

I had a similar issue with my 2011 twisted 1000. In the vid it sounds almost like maybe its loaded up with fuel. Does it make it to full boost? If so check your pipe for a crack that might be opening up as it spools more boost. Mine did this and it made it act the same way as yours. I had a cracked/broken pipe. I may be way off but check it anyways. Good luck

It will get to full boost. If I nail it from an idle it will pull right through.

I think dvst8r might be onto something. At an idle it is sitting at 14-14.5 AF. So it is leaner. I nail it and it pulls through. But under a load and getting out of it a bit it just won't pick it back up.

Any chance it could be a cracked, chipped, or broken reed? (I will be checking but it is a PITA to get to, so I wanted other ideas also)

Thunder

 

[mmsports]

too much fuel.

11.8 AF on a hard pull
12.5-13.5 on the trail no load

It would help to turn accelerator pump down just a bit but that is not an option with out rewriting program. Turn your top end fuel down just a bit and try it. BG

 

[dvst8r]

Look at the "Something every turbo owner should own!!!" thread, build one of those, as then you can check the pipe for leaks, and go through the rest of your system just to make sure in the garage.

If you have a bore scope (or access to one) it makes checking the reeds much easier. Did you notice any difference in idle? normally when the reads start to go the idle changes too, and it is pretty consistently boggy on the low end across the board.

If it is easy to go for a ride, get it to load up again like in the video, and see if you can get your video camera to record, going from good running, to it loading up, so we can see what the AF is doing in that area. I would assume it is going like 9:1 rich or something silly like that.

When it loads up like that, can you let out and slowly ease back into it, and have it run clean?

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Look at the "Something every turbo owner should own!!!" thread, build one of those, as then you can check the pipe for leaks, and go through the rest of your system just to make sure in the garage. I did see this thread and will put something together to look for leaks. I just had the pipe off last weekend to replace a melted throttle cable and everything looked really good as far as the pipe and gaskets.

If you have a bore scope (or access to one) it makes checking the reeds much easier. Did you notice any difference in idle? normally when the reads start to go the idle changes too, and it is pretty consistently boggy on the low end across the board. Starts and idles pretty good, runs so so on the trail, but when the attitude box goes from just the green light to the yellow/blue it cleans up a bunch. I have a bore scope, where are you looking through to see the reeds, throttle bodies?

If it is easy to go for a ride, get it to load up again like in the video, and see if you can get your video camera to record, going from good running, to it loading up, so we can see what the AF is doing in that area. I would assume it is going like 9:1 rich or something silly like that. I know when it is running like CRAP my guage was seeing 14.5 af as it is coughing and hacking.

When it loads up like that, can you let out and slowly ease back into it, and have it run clean?Yep, I can let out and SLOWLY get back into it and it will run through. If I chop it and punch it right back it falls on it's face. But just like you said if I chop it and slowly work it back it is fine. Only time I can really nail it is from idle. Or even if I am at 1/2 throttle and nail it it is fine. It is really when I go from WFO to off and then right back into it.

Thanks for your ideas, I need this thing to run.

Thunder

 

[Arctic Thunder]

11.8 AF on a hard pull
12.5-13.5 on the trail no load

It would help to turn accelerator pump down just a bit but that is not an option with out rewriting program. Turn your top end fuel down just a bit and try it. BG

I had my boost fuel set to 6.5 and I was getting AF around 11.1-11.3. So I cut it to 5 and I am now getting 11.8 or so. So it leaned that area out. I did see an improvement in on off throttle problem. But still not ridable.

I was thinking about pushing it down a bit more, like to 4 but crap that is 3 full points below all the other twisted kits I ride with. What the Heck!!

I don't want to see 12 + on my AF. I have checked my pistons and no detonation or anything they look good. But I have never ran it over 12 AF either. Or above 10psi of boost.

Thanks again for the ideas.

Thunder

 

[Arctic Thunder]

One other note. The ride before this weekend it was running pretty good. But it was about 30 deg warmer.

I would expect the sled to need more fuel on a COLD day than a warm day. But maybe with the turbo the air temperature affects the AF differently. I had a buddy with a twisted kit riding next to me all day. And he made the comment that he had to cut some fuel on his kit with the temperature in the minus 10 deg range.

So I don't know.

Thunder

 

[dvst8r]

If it is showing 14.5 when it is having issues, it would need more transition fuel not less. Yet from your prior testing it sounds like it ran better as you pulled fuel. I like to keep my transition lean, I find it a lot more responsive, but like 13:1 not 14+. Maybe try adding some in Yellow? (iirc that is acceleration)

Yes with a bore scope you can just pop off the charge tube where it connects to the airbox, use an elastic band to hold the throttle wide open, and feed it through the airbox and then throttle bodies.

I wonder if that temperature difference is what caused the issue, you had it right where it needed to be, go out 30 degrees colder and now the air is denser, and you are seeing 14.5 on the transition and need to add fuel?

 

[kkhaos]

09 M1000 RG Twisted Turbo

I have a 09 Arctic Cat M1000 Twisted Turbo RG as well. I had a similar problem with my M1000, Not quite as bad but still unactable. The Attitude controler was falling because of the boost sensor. Ran great wide open but just like yours ran like crap from idle to mid range (Lean a/f #'S as well ??). The boost sensor was giving boost fuel right off idle. I bought another Attitude box off a guy hear on snowest (rusty rider) that used it very little. Looked like it was never installed. Also sent mine out for repair. Put the other box on and it did the same thing. I was what?? Called Attitude (Derek) and he helped me test it over the phone and found this box had the same problem. I recieved the box back put it on and WOW were rippen again, all fixed. Attitude service was great fast turn around time and better yet it fixed the problem. My other box has been sent to Attitude for repair.

9-10 lbs
41 psi
2.5 g
2 y
1 r
6 g/b
5.5 y/b
7.5 r/b

 

[Arctic Thunder]

I have a 09 Arctic Cat M1000 Twisted Turbo RG as well. I had a similar problem with my M1000, Not quite as bad but still unactable. The Attitude controler was falling because of the boost sensor. Ran great wide open but just like yours ran like crap from idle to mid range (Lean a/f #'S as well ??). The boost sensor was giving boost fuel right off idle. I bought another Attitude box off a guy hear on snowest (rusty rider) that used it very little. Looked like it was never installed. Also sent mine out for repair. Put the other box on and it did the same thing. I was what?? Called Attitude (Derek) and he helped me test it over the phone and found this box had the same problem. I recieved the box back put it on and WOW were rippen again, all fixed. Attitude service was great fast turn around time and better yet it fixed the problem. My other box has been sent to Attitude for repair.

9-10 lbs
41 psi
2.5 g
2 y
1 r
6 g/b
5.5 y/b
7.5 r/b

What I have noticed is at times, not all the time, my two yellow's and the blue are on even under minimal load. One of my riding buddies believes the diapharm is bad in the box also. He said to get a new box. Considering I have about 200 miles on this kit/box, I will see if Shane will exchange it for me. never has worked great. But I think you are onto something.

 

[Hardass]

Ok i'm new here and to the turbo thing i have a 09 m1000 boony set up i'm taking the boon box off and going a different route with the controller In general are you guys satisfied with your dobek set ups? I'm trying to get this worked out. also i have the fuel card to make the pump work harder and the vaccum line in the tank is this satisfactory? and then the ebc should i get rid of that for something else Thanks Pm are fine as well thanks.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

What I have noticed is at times, not all the time, my two yellow's and the blue are on even under minimal load. One of my riding buddies believes the diapharm is bad in the box also. He said to get a new box. Considering I have about 200 miles on this kit/box, I will see if Shane will exchange it for me. never has worked great. But I think you are onto something.

I would highly doubt you controller is bad just yet... over time they definately are more prone to failure, but yours is dang near new, so i would look elsewhere.

it sounds much more of a program/tuning issue then anything else. SO, baring your sled is not broken, and is a solid platform, here we go.

the fact you are adding NO zone fueling and only doing a boost curve right now indicates something is not right.

When i get off lunch i will dig up Shains fuel map and explain things a little better so you can tune it right.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Attitude service was great fast turn around time and better yet it fixed the problem. My other box has been sent to Attitude for repair.

you mean you sent it to dobeck and they fixed you up in a hurry. but back to topic.

Not sure which program is in the controller but there are VERY few that red/blue is boost fuel that even have a yellow blue so i have a very narrow selection.

first off, your yellow blue is going to be your green/yellow transition point. but considering your green and yellow fuel are both NOT adding anything to stock, adjusting that is going to do nothing for you, just coincidence in how it feels.

I would recommend, drop you boost fuel down a light setting or two and add some red to get your WOT fueling where you want it. also, 11,8 is on the fat side, low to mid 12's is gonna be plenty safe and keep you from flirting with this boggy spot so much.

 

[Dano702]

Just one quick question. Do you store the sled in a heated shop between rides? I went riding a few days in a row one time, and i did not thaw out my sled. The blue light on the box that shows boost was staying on at idle.

From that point on i made a point of thawing the sled every ride, never happened again. Let us know what you find.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Just one quick question. Do you store the sled in a heated shop between rides? I went riding a few days in a row one time, and i did not thaw out my sled. The blue light on the box that shows boost was staying on at idle.

From that point on i made a point of thawing the sled every ride, never happened again. Let us know what you find.

Yep, stored inside a heated shop all week between rides.

 

[mentlsled]

i have an F7 turbo with an Attitude industries controller,had the exact same problem last week,would make boost on the first hit after idle and when i tried to get back into it it wouldnt make any boost and run like crap with high A/F readings...if i shut it off it would make boost again but same ****....once i let off it would run like ****...ended up being an intake pipe cracked,i guess from dryrot,it was the original intake boot,i havent tried it out yet but am going for a ride this weekend coming up,im sure its the problem,was split wide open,and you will only see it if you force the airbox down with your hand,otherwise it will look fine

 

[Arctic Thunder]

i have an F7 turbo with an Attitude industries controller,had the exact same problem last week,would make boost on the first hit after idle and when i tried to get back into it it wouldnt make any boost and run like crap with high A/F readings...if i shut it off it would make boost again but same ****....once i let off it would run like ****...ended up being an intake pipe cracked,i guess from dryrot,it was the original intake boot,i havent tried it out yet but am going for a ride this weekend coming up,im sure its the problem,was split wide open,and you will only see it if you force the airbox down with your hand,otherwise it will look fine

You know funny you say this. I found when I got home my stupid blow off valve was loose on the charge tube again. I was seeing 10psi of boost but had to be loosing a bunch of it. i wonder if that might be a BIG part of the problem. I am waiting on a few parts and once it's together I am going to give it another go.

Thunder