Nasty rough clutch engagement

[shredjim]

2009 M8 SnoPro. I just rode yesterday for the first time on my new clutch kit. 48 - 36P helix, orange primary spring, 73gram cat weights, shift assist, stock secondary spring. 3200 ft to 6,000 elevation. The clutch engages so ROUGH now it is scary. After it enages a crunching, grinding sound happens during takeoff that I couldn't tell if it was ice under the track crunching - or if it is something in the clutch. Also, during slow movements lining up for the sled deck etc. it WHACKS in and out of engagement terribly. Feels like I gotta be doing damage somewhere. Any help much appreciated, I want to ride today

 

[White Rad]

does it run fine otherwise once clutch engages? its not crunching grinding from DD is it? could check and make sure weights are installed right. i also noticed my primary spring was binding and rubbing on cups, might look for missing paint on spring to see if its binding...

what rpms does it engage at with your setup, i still want to lower my engagement rpms....

 

[RickM]

shredjim

reading your post, you said you had an orange primary spring, is it a orange/white cat spring? I looked at my chart and cat orange/ white is 143/290 spring rate, compared to yellow/white which is 122/285,
the orange should be giving you a higher engagement.

if so is your driven clutch coming open causing the noise from the shives opening up and causing belt slack, which may cause your primary to kick in and out as you described when trying to load on deck?

you did not mention if your deflection is set correctly, belt should be clear up to top if driven shive and maybe a 1/16 above shive. I set mine to were the belt will almost squeel at idle, will watch for you comments. RickM

 

[shredjim]

Thanks a lot Rick. My sled is up on my deck and we got 6" of snow last night. I just went and looked and my belt deflection is all messed up. The belt is way too loose. I have one of those Amp belt deflection adjusters on it. The belt is down too far in the secondary and the primary doesn't look like it closed up as tight as it normally does. So, I was turning the amp adjuster to the right (loosening it, tightening it moves the sheeves out to take belt off, reverse threads) and it won't seem to move the belt up a bit above the sheeves because the belt is too loose. It was like this after I installed the various clutching parts but I figured after the clutches shift out the primary would tighten back up, but it doesn't seem to be doing so. I don't have a track stand, so I gotta ride it some to shift the clutches. After I have taken off and get some speed, everything seems normal.

 

[AaronBND]

It's really simple. Your belt is not moving up the sheaves when you loosen it because it is wedged in between the sheaves. As you are loosening the belt deflector, be spinning your belt with your hand to unbind it from the sheaves. As you spin the belt by hand breaking it loose from the sheaves it will come up the sheaves and you can get it right where you need it to be. You don't need a track stand to adjust deflection. Very easy to do.

Aaron

 

[White Rad]

So, I was turning the amp adjuster to the right (loosening it, tightening it moves the sheeves out to take belt off, reverse threads) and it won't seem to move the belt up a bit above the sheeves because the belt is too loose.

not a clutch expert but did notice when putting my secondary back on i had to use all the slack in the belt to work it the whole way around the secondary pulling it up out of the sheaves. before i did this my cap screw (replaced by your AMP adj.) would not go in all the way as the sheeves were still open a little. when the clutches aren't spinning if you tighten your adjuster it basically pinches the belt as it tries to close the sheeves so you have to help the belt slide up to the top as you go, if that makes any sense....

 

[RickM]

deflection adjustment

Like aaranbnb stated, you dont need a track stand.
when adjusting belt deflection, use both hands one on top part of belt and one on bottom part of belt, push rearward moving the belt in the shives. Keep doing this and the belt will work upward in the driven clutch. You may need to adjust your belt deflector to let shives move "TOGETHER MORE"
as you keep forcing the belt rearward. If the belt is worn you may need to add a shim to the end cap behind the O ring, to get more deflection.
like i stated before, set deflection so the belt just wants to squeel when it idles, this will give you the lowest/smoothest engagement. Hope this helps ,
RickM

 

[shredjim]

Thanks a lot to Aaron, WR and Rick for the tips as to how to adjust it - correctly that is. By moving the belt with my hands I was able to get it a lot tighter. I'll post after I ride it if the rough engagement goes away.

 

[m7ascent]

Just one more thought before you go out riding...I had similar simptoms last ride and determined that the screws that hold the movable secondary sheave to the helix had loosened up and the movable sheave was sitting kinda cockeyed. Made the belt sit low in the secondary and had a rough engagment and horrible vibrations. Tightened the junk screws down twice as tight as I wanted to and added a ton more blue locktite to them...problem solved.

 

[shredjim]

I did a test ride today after I re-adjusted the belt deflection. I did laps around the parking area and made three stops and loosened the adjuster in an attempt to get the belt to ride higher in the secondary. I now have the belt just above the sheeves and I can't seem to get it any higher. It is much better than yesterday but it still has a fairly harsh engagement. My previous sled took off like butter - and the secondary was floated. I will be getting a track stand soon.

 

[Treebuster]

When I got my new M7 in 06 it was like a gun shot when the clutchs kicked in. Well upon further inspection I found that my former dealer thought it was a good idea to use an impact on the bolts going through the weights. Once I loosened them so they moved up and down with a flick of a finger it was smooth sailing. Hope its somthing that simple

 

[Burn Down]

What treebuster said check your weights, if they are binding it will cause rough engagement.

 

[1rarel78]

how tight should those nuts be? my weights are not loose on my m8 like they were on my m7. Do you just snug them and locktight the crap out of them? If I don't tighten them the weights move freely.

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

YOU DO NOT WANT TO RUN THE BOLT LOOSE!!!!!! They have o rings to take up the slack and the bolts have a shoulder that is a set length to allow you to tighten them up and not allow them to tightnen onto the spider. IF you loosen them up and a nut comes loose at 8000 rpm it is like a bullet. There should be a mark on the weight bolt head that helps you find the hole for the weight set screw to go into (use red Locktight) and I use RED locktight on the weight nut also. If some IDIOT changed out the bolts get the correct one before riding. Also on your belt ajustment, loosen your adjustment (AMP) until your belt sqeals at idle,or the sled tries to move on its own at idle and leave it.Also IF you want the best clutching for engagement, check your primary belt to sheave clearance as anything over .010 makes for a harsh engagement and is hard on the Crank. Good Luck..Garry

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

Run them up snug with a LITTLE red Locktight. To much and it finds its way into the clutch. weight"s seem to not move as easy when the bolts are tight but that is the way they are designed and at rpm they work fine.

 

[ItDoAble]

... Also IF you want the best clutching for engagement, check your primary belt to sheave clearance as anything over .010 makes for a harsh engagement and is hard on the Crank. Good Luck..Garry

IMO, after everything else is said and done, this is the most overlooked item in the clutching system. I once had an aftermarket primary (on a 99' 700RMK) that had an adjustable sleave (5 min job to change clearence)! Just a few thousands made huge differences in engagement (like BUTTER), and as a belt wore down you could tighten it up.

I know my M8 seems too loose from the factory (IMO), and it bugs the h*ll out of me because I know how much better it could be. I like a lot of tight tree riding, so engagement is important. Did the lazy man's fix by putting in a lower engagement spring (instead of shimming the spider, which is a biotch).

 

[furthur]

^^^and that right there is the rest of the problem, that orange/white is a trailriders holeshot spring that some m riders used to mask low end bogs. I really like the gold SO much better. If ya gotta have that much spring force at shift out, look to SLP...they have some that start around 115, with a good choice of final forces.

 

[White Rad]

Run them up snug with a LITTLE red Locktight. To much and it finds its way into the clutch. weight"s seem to not move as easy when the bolts are tight but that is the way they are designed and at rpm they work fine.

think the manual says 10ft/lbs but snug when the o-rings just start to bulge is good. does cat call for locktight on those, might have to go back and add a dab to mine would be very bad to throw one of those loose...

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

I don't know if they call for it but the set screws do and if I am changing them I have heat there anyway so.....I use it. As far as the belt clearance SLP says .010 but I set mine up at .000 with a new belt. Dam Cat uses green locktight and on all the clutches I have ajusted you have to heat the crap out of the spider to remove it. A note here is Polaris only uses blue on there spider and I have rebuilt (shimed) many spiders with blue and it works great. Only problem is Balance after shimming and IF you shim your cluth I would STRONGLY recommend balancing it. Also SLP's MTX weights are thicker on a Polaris clutch which helps close the Gap without shims so why don't one of you guys come up with a kit to adjust the gap without having to tear down and rebalance the clutch????? Garry

 

[ItDoAble]

...so why don't one of you guys come up with a kit to adjust the gap without having to tear down and rebalance the clutch????? Garry

I'd buy it in a heartbeat!