Meth/water on 2 stroke?

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Just curious if anyone has run meth/water on a 2 stroke boost application, I am thinking about it due to its cost/benefit to take my turbo setup slightly above pump gas safely, but for basically the cost of a tad bit more 91, i can make things work better. My setup can run 6 psi of boost safely on 91 at elevation, SO, I would have the meth/water kick on and progressive injection start at say 5 psi and go to 9 where my increase boost could be run with the injection. If this idea doesnt make any sense, please feel free to comment and critique, Im relatively new to the 2 stroke boost idea, but i have seen what water/meth can do on other applications, and if it can do half of that, I WANT IT!


As I found with looking into propane idea I had, boosted 2 stroked dont like it much, so I want to make sure things would not be totally unfavorable with it on 2 stroke boost.

 

[Angermangement890]

I think the main problem you would have is the water displacing the oil film on bearings and other parts. Maybe use just methanol?

 

[Zipperno]

I think the main problem you would have is the water displacing the oil film on bearings and other parts. Maybe use just methanol?

Yes I agree. On a 4-stroke the water/meth only reaches the top of piston and the combustion chamber before it exits. But with a 2-stroke it also goes into the crank....cant be good for the bearings.
I wouldnt want methanol on my bearings, wouldnt it displace the oil also....

//Tom

 

[Norway]

Sooo.....? Water/meth DI??

j/k, but would be cool(!) if there was a liquid suitable for a 2-stroke.

I mean, can you guys imagine a D&D 1200 with turbo AND WATER/METH????
600Hp? RAM's and Silverado's, eat your heart out!! LOL


RS

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Good point.... really didnt even think of it hitting the bottom end, as is evident.

Well. I may have to wait, tune mine up and then use a little meth/water and see if it takes well to it, I just dont want to fry crank parts from shooting it. I will have to take some spare parts i have laying around, coat them in 2stroke injector oil, and dump washer fluid on them and see how the oil holds up.



And Norway, DI would be CRAZY, and equally expensive.... by the sounds of things, I need to get out of the 2 stroke world and get me a nytro or something!

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

alright, see what im thinking, is because my setup would only come on in higher boost levels. 5-10 psi. I would be running enough regular fuel and oil to do the thing good.

most places we ride I go 10 miles of trail in and out, so thats 10 miles of riding where im not even hitting boost, therefore no water/meth. this would be basically work the same as running it with just regular fuel.

the longest climbs around here I hit are MAX 30 seconds if the snow is super deep, so the injection jsut isnt gonna be running all that much, so im wondering if this little amount of injection will reak so much havoc? The setup is mainly a det suppresant on the top end when things start to warm up in a climb. I know race gas would be cheaper, but Im always looking at ways to adapt things.

 

[up-high]

The only lube the crank bearings get is through the fuel mixture. Methanol will scrub those bearings dry in a second. JMO!

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

The only lube the crank bearings get is through the fuel mixture. Methanol will scrub those bearings dry in a second. JMO!

The only thing that confuses me about this idea is the fact that the lube is still there, it just might not stay on for as long, ALSO, on a 4stroke, what keeps the upper rings from sticking when running meth? just curious, as i KNOW they work on 4stroke sleds, just seems like if it had such a detramental affect on scrubing lube away, it would really shorten life out of 4 stroke motors as well.

Im not trying to contradict anyone directly, BUT, As my sled is an SDI the bottom end doesnt even see but a TINY bit of fuel and mainly oil injection, so I have a feeling I am going to try this out this summer when I get the boost all dialed In,

the fact that ^^^ has gotten any life out of methanol and just rerunning gas through it later makes it last pretty long, I am still running gas and oil ALL the time.


again, not trying to get into a pissing match... just want some first hand, if it exists, as my reading on water/meth for other applications has shown that there are a lot of rumors surrounding it, jsut like pump gas turbos, i know 5 years ago i doubt you could convince anyone that you could run a 2 stroke on pump gas and boost.

 

[charlie99]

Have you ever gotten pure methaol on your hands it dries them out in seconds, and is very hard on the skin which has oil on it so i'm not sure how well it would work. And in the diesel world alot of guys use straight water because it is alot safer to use than trying to deal with the combustion of the methanol, I'm sure in a snowmobile you would only want to have enough meth to keep the water from freezing so you would be pretty much injecting water in there, not very good for the bottom end. Just buying better fuel would probably be cheaper in the long run.

 

[up-high]

I believe the top ring on a 4 stroke is the compression ring and not an oil ring? The pressure of the expanding gasses keeps it tight. When are you going to inject the meth? If you can inject it directly into the combustion chamber, then maybe it will work. Otherwise, I don't see how the motor can survive at 8000 rpm when the meth/water is diluting the oil that is in the crankcase (lubing the bearings). Maybe increase the amount of oil injected? But then you will probably have fouling problems. If you try meth/water injection, you should have some spare parts on hand. Turbos put a heavy load on cranks/pistons.

 

[charlie99]

.

But I did find these pics awhile ago, not sure who built it though.
I guess these guys built it give them a call and see how it worked for them.
http://www.backusracing.com/index1.html

 

[zach13]

all i got to say if you do this find a oil that is meth safe or you will have a lot of milky junk oil in your case.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

well, looks like the amount of money I have is not going to permit anything this cool.

straight meth is to costly, and replacing the whole fueling system would be $$$ and water meth would slay my bottom end.

I think for now im going to stay with some extra av gas for more boost. other then that, I think ill wait a while till i can affor to experiment, and the DOO 1000 is a SUPER expensive motor to rebuild if things descide to go south.

silly 2 strokes just dont seem to like much besides regular old gas.

 

[sledhead699]

yea not shure how you would make this work because the mane reason for water/meth is cooling the exhaust temps. that is where the power is made. i dont think it would be worth it for what it would take to make it work.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

silence clown, you just dont want to be slain!!!

I looked into that company above, they have a snow performance kit on theres, im going to have to look into what they are doing. shooting them an email as we speak.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

this is pretty interesting looking, im going to see what they are doing, if they are able to get any reliablity out of it.

 

[charlie99]

Any new info on this?

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I email the company that the picture is from and they said they just built it and dont have much info yet, so i will probably harass them later this season or into the summer sometime and see what they found.

 

[FlynHigh]

I thought one of the main reasons for methanol and water injection was to help cool the air down a little more so it was denser. When the turbo compresses the air it heats up and you want the air cool so you can get more air into the cylinders. To me an injection system like this would be better and more consistent than a aircooled intercooler. Ideally it would be set up to turn on automatically when the boost was above 3 or 4 psi. Another idea they use on cars is a water cooled intercooler, which I thought would always work real good on a snowmobile. You would need a separate "cooling system" specifically for the intercooler.

 

[Boyko]

Water meth injection does not do much to cool down a intake charger, It does to a point and you do get a denser charge because of it. The place it works its magic is when it gets into the cylinders and the motor is on the compression stroke. This is where the heat real starts to happen instead of the 10 or 20 psi boost the piston can be working on making +200 psi. The water sucks up the heat as it is vaporized, it take a lot of energy to heat up water.

I think the problem with a 2 smoker is that together water and meth are more corrosive than separate, not good for the bottom end, longevity is the question that you have to answer.

I like how you can make gobs of power on water meth injection and low octane fuel but man any problem in the system no mater how minor it is going to beat the cr@p out of your engine.

Good luck with it I hope it work for ya, that would be cool