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McCall area grooming

I would like to start of by saying none of us are very happy with how this season has started off, but it will get better, the snow is great and the sun was out today. Second I would like to thank everyone who is doing there best to get the grooming up and running. The grooming department is trying to get things back to normal and that is greatly appreciated. I would like everyone to understand that We have had several break downs of equipment and a difficult time with staffing at the start of this season. I feel that valley county probable could have done a better job getting the staff for the program put together sooner. Vally county needed to make this a higher priority then they did. I would suggest that we let the commissioners know how important this to us all. Without them hearing directly from everyone who benefits from our trail system they will not adjust their priorities.

Thanks Jim Corbet
208-630-3319

from my understanding the best way to reach them is through the county office.


chairman Jerry Winkle (jwinkle@co.valley.id.us)
GERALD “JERRY” WINKLE
COMMISSIONERS
FRANK W. ELD
GORDON L. CRUICKSHANK

208-382-7100 (courthouse#)
 
You do not vote (other then with your pocket books), so I don't think the commisioners care if you call them or not. If they cared, they would have fixed this problem last August when people started warning them about it.

That's right folks. The guy in charge the past 2 years quit in August because the commissioners and the state parks and rec wouldn't help him. This was not a last minute issue, this is not equipment problems, this is not weather patterns, this is folks who just don't care.

The commissioners have a long history of giving lip service then taking the grooming moneys and spending it on something they do care about.

As for Wernex. he is about worthless IMO. State law says the state MUST give all the grooming money to the county, and then the county can do whatever they want with it. I worked up there for 2 years, and if you need a letter written, Wernex is your man. If you need anything else, the time never seems to be right for him to do anything.

One of Wernex's bosses is a guy at Parks and Rec named Troy. I called him in November, and he assured me the season would be great.

When all done, all of these folks work for Butch Otter. Butch Otter has relatives who ride up there who will be calling him in the coming week.

As for signs, In the state, the vast "normal" is clubs actually set the signs out and maintain them. McCall clubs don't seem to do that, and never have.

Is it the forest service's job to maintain signs on county and federal roads? Maybe yes, maybe no, but the real world says the forest service will get to it when they can, and there are a LOT of trail signs to maintain and only a teeny bit of one guy's life to get it done.

My suggestion has ALWAYS been for the grooming program to maintain the signs. Hire someone to sell stickers in the parking lots, fix signs, cut trees, cruise the trails, listen to riders's suggestions. Make it their job.
It is NOT a realistic option for a groomer operator to fix signs during their grooming runs. Trust me - this sounds like an easy solution, but it does not work.

If they won't pay for it, then find a volunteer to help the Forest Service get them out, and then maintain them. I bet teh Forest Service guy would be pretty agreeable about getting some help.

I would REALLY like the program to be successful. I would be totally willing to give thoughts and advice to whoever ends up running the program.

When all done, my opinion is it will take calls to the governor to make a fundamental change in how the system works.

The ISSA and the University of Idaho did a study of snowmobile's impact on the economy in Valley and Adams county. The number they came up with was 6.2 million dollars a year.

Again, not a penny goes to the local clubs nor to the commissioners. The club officers and commissioners are on fixed incomes, and are insulated from the effects of tourism.

McCall is different then any other program in the state. McCall is big money, big quantities of people, and big opportunity. McCall also has a BUNCH of tree hugging nature nazis locals who don't want snowmobilers.

On top of all that, McCall does not have a large population center to provide volunteers to help out, and the locals do want to protect their little bit of paradise.
 
Thanks for the contact info...

Just got done spending more then a week in the McCall area and I haven't seen the grooming this bad for years. One of the busiest weekends of the year and the grooming department really dropped the ball. If this keeps up... the local businesses are going to suffer. I think about every other vehicle in the parking lot were from out of state.

Rode out of Donnelly on Friday and some jacka$$ made three big snowmen in the middle of the trail about a mile from the parking lot. If someone hit one of those it would cause some major damage.

Snow is starting to get good but I saw a lot of damage so be careful.
 
You do not vote (other then with your pocket books), so I don't think the commisioners care if you call them or not. If they cared, they would have fixed this problem last August when people started warning them about it.

That's right folks. The guy in charge the past 2 years quit in August because the commissioners and the state parks and rec wouldn't help him. This was not a last minute issue, this is not equipment problems, this is not weather patterns, this is folks who just don't care.

The commissioners have a long history of giving lip service then taking the grooming moneys and spending it on something they do care about.

As for Wernex. he is about worthless IMO. State law says the state MUST give all the grooming money to the county, and then the county can do whatever they want with it. I worked up there for 2 years, and if you need a letter written, Wernex is your man. If you need anything else, the time never seems to be right for him to do anything.

One of Wernex's bosses is a guy at Parks and Rec named Troy. I called him in November, and he assured me the season would be great.

When all done, all of these folks work for Butch Otter. Butch Otter has relatives who ride up there who will be calling him in the coming week.

As for signs, In the state, the vast "normal" is clubs actually set the signs out and maintain them. McCall clubs don't seem to do that, and never have.

Is it the forest service's job to maintain signs on county and federal roads? Maybe yes, maybe no, but the real world says the forest service will get to it when they can, and there are a LOT of trail signs to maintain and only a teeny bit of one guy's life to get it done.

My suggestion has ALWAYS been for the grooming program to maintain the signs. Hire someone to sell stickers in the parking lots, fix signs, cut trees, cruise the trails, listen to riders's suggestions. Make it their job.
It is NOT a realistic option for a groomer operator to fix signs during their grooming runs. Trust me - this sounds like an easy solution, but it does not work.

If they won't pay for it, then find a volunteer to help the Forest Service get them out, and then maintain them. I bet teh Forest Service guy would be pretty agreeable about getting some help.

I would REALLY like the program to be successful. I would be totally willing to give thoughts and advice to whoever ends up running the program.

When all done, my opinion is it will take calls to the governor to make a fundamental change in how the system works.

The ISSA and the University of Idaho did a study of snowmobile's impact on the economy in Valley and Adams county. The number they came up with was 6.2 million dollars a year.

Again, not a penny goes to the local clubs nor to the commissioners. The club officers and commissioners are on fixed incomes, and are insulated from the effects of tourism.

McCall is different then any other program in the state. McCall is big money, big quantities of people, and big opportunity. McCall also has a BUNCH of tree hugging nature nazis locals who don't want snowmobilers.

On top of all that, McCall does not have a large population center to provide volunteers to help out, and the locals do want to protect their little bit of paradise.


I live in Valley county and Vote. I own a business that only thrives due to snowmobiling. trust me when I say this matters to me I want people to come ride here!!!! I want everyone to have chance to see how great this place is. I've just been asked to help out with the local club everyone on the board is a business owner or affected by tourism. We all want tourism here. We raise money for trails and awareness for snowmobiling but you are correct there is not a large pool of people to help with this. I work for living and enjoy riding when I can. I never mind sharing this place with others. The only way t o make things better is to hold those who make the decisions accountable. The more complaints the comissioners get the more Ammo we have to get something changed. once we show that it effects pocket books and jobs they will listen. I understand your frustration It's not easy to get everyone to agree on how to use public lands. I wish I had the magic answer.
 
How many waves do you want to make?

Do you REALLY want to be successful?

Join the McCall chamber of commerce. Go get a copy of the Idaho Travel Council marketing expenditures. Last time I looked at it, 80 percent of the free state money was spent marketing brundage. The way it is supposed to work is the money is supposed to market tourism opportuntiies for the entire area, not just one business.

Squeeze the newspapers up there. The cascade paper in particular used to understand tourism dollars.

Go talk to the County Clerk's office and see how much carry over there was from last year in the grooming budgets.

Go get a ride on a groomer. Some operators do NOT like passengers. Some of them are pretty private folks, and enjoy the soltitude. On the other hand, some of us liked to have passengers and someone to talk to.
The county and state for sure allow passengers, and have a liability release to sign.

If you want redridge groomed, go mark the trails. We had a hell of a time trying to figure out the mazes up there for the first few runs every year.

If you sell stickers, go sell them in the parking lots. If you are uncomfortable, get permission from the Adams county commissioners. If you want to "help out", sell stickers, and give away business cards for the Valley county commissioners and the head of Parks and Rec.

I've got lots of ideas to improve the program.

I live in Valley county and Vote. I own a business that only thrives due to snowmobiling. trust me when I say this matters to me I want people to come ride here!!!! I want everyone to have chance to see how great this place is. I've just been asked to help out with the local club everyone on the board is a business owner or affected by tourism. We all want tourism here. We raise money for trails and awareness for snowmobiling but you are correct there is not a large pool of people to help with this. I work for living and enjoy riding when I can. I never mind sharing this place with others. The only way t o make things better is to hold those who make the decisions accountable. The more complaints the comissioners get the more Ammo we have to get something changed. once we show that it effects pocket books and jobs they will listen. I understand your frustration It's not easy to get everyone to agree on how to use public lands. I wish I had the magic answer.
 
I sent a email to Wernex and Troy at the state level. I also sent the email to all people listed at the Chamber of Commerce for McCall. Just got a email back from Michael Towne (michael.towne@frontiercorp.com) the president saying he was going to look into the problems.
It might help if more people write to him about the problems in grooming, so he does not just here from me.
I also sent a letter to all the places we have stayed in the past, saying we will not be coming until the grooming program gets fixed. We are a group of 8 to 10 people that come every year for 10 to 14 days. Love the town, but if the trails are bad the wife with a bad back will be in a bad way, and you know where that puts me!

RickPDX
 
If the trails bother you that much, stop riding in McCall. Just means more untracked snow for the rest of us. just my .02 cents

The really cool thing about that attitude is it allows the greenies to close down more areas.

After all, who cares if 10 or 12 snowmobilers can't ride their favorite areas.
 
If the trails bother you that much, stop riding in McCall. Just means more untracked snow for the rest of us. just my .02 cents

If the grooming goes down the tube, that effects a lot of things that the tourist dollars bring into town. No more rooms tax revenue to help pay for items. If you think that the loss of $6 mill is nothing for a small town, just wait for you taxes or user fees go up, business start to close, and property values will go down.

The value of homes at Secesh will dive, who wants to travel to a home over 25 miles of ungroomed trail?

The Warren bar would also sure to close, as who could make that trip on a ungroomed trail.

With the past good grooming you could still find untracked snow lots of places, if you do not know the places PM me and I can tell you some.

Like Doug said the best way to shut down snowmobiling is to drop the number of snowmobilers, which no or poor grooming will do, until you have no voice and the greenies get their way.

I for one would like to snowmobile in McCall 10 years from now.

It is YOUR tax dollars that are being wasted!!!!!!!
 
I'm a little surprised by your first comment BKinz. Yeah, all of us locals and those who ride here often know there's tons of untouched out there to be had even when we're as slammed as we are over the holidays but McCall needs to uphold their reputation for having a very well maintained trail system or we all lose no matter our preference of riding off trail or on. Maybe I'm just more concerned because I actually live here and thrive off of tourism as well and maybe we were just too spoiled the last few years.
 
The really cool thing about that attitude is it allows the greenies to close down more areas.

After all, who cares if 10 or 12 snowmobilers can't ride their favorite areas.
And this my freinds is just what will happen, mayby not soon but eventualy. Was in McCall for three days of great fun, droped about 900 bucks into the local area. Last time I was there was THREE years ago, told myself never again after two days of two foot mougal rideing, two out three sleds with busted skids. :mad: This time the trails we rode were in great shape :), however when I drive 470 miles one way and have to ride crap for trails I will take my $$$ elsewhere. Dont think I am the only person that feels this way...and soon riders stay away and greenes can prove theres no need to keep McCall open to sleding, way bad deal for everyone...just my $3 worth. Dino
 
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Interestingly enough, the state guys are saying they think the trails were great for the new year's weekend as they did not receive any phone calls complaining.

They said there were a few hiccups for xmas weekend, but they got resolved for new years.

Some phone calls to the parties involved would probably do some good right now.
 
Bkinz

If the trails bother you that much, stop riding in McCall. Just means more untracked snow for the rest of us. just my .02 cents

Then without riding the trails, the visitor $$$ are removed and then what happens to McCall?

I think there is a better solution then to just say, "get out".

Just my .02 cents
 
What is going to be groomed this weekend the 9th and 10th?

I would like to know. I can go to McCall and spend money or head to enterprise Oregon.

Just need to know. Plan to ride out of the west lane parking area.

Not groomed we won't be coming. Don't need to pound the hell out of our machines.

Thanks

Thunder
 
Grooming reports

Please go to http://www.snowmobilemccall.net/grooming/mccall-idaho-grooming-report.html for the latest.

Some local club members and the county grooming management met today to discuss the grooming or lack of last week. Rather than beat a dead horse, we moved on to what do we need to do to keep the program working as it should.

Volunteers to help the regular operators (who may have run out of alloted time), machines that are fixed and running, more snow and good snow and a schedule and the understanding of the high use periods and locations that require more grooming were discussed. The need for reporting the groomers routes last night too were discussed.

We ordered another 5000 maps since the winter travel plan does not appear to be anywhere near being published and of course that would change the whole mapping details.

We hope things are back to normal GOOD operation now. If they are not, this web site will let us know, as you should.

Spud.
 
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Thank you Idaspud!

Very much appreciated.

Is the program now fully staffed? In other words, is there an operator for Cascade, Donnelly, Brundage, and Warren hired?
 
staffing

Hi, Doug, yes, my understanding is there are 2 operators at Smith's Ferry, 2 at Cascade, and 4 at Donnelly/McCall. Fully staffed. There are 3 volunteers drug tested and on the country payroll and 2 more in the process as back up for illness, etc. for the McCall area. (some training required)

They just need to keep the machines running now.

Spud.
 
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