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Lynx Shredder Turbo R 146" - help with suspension setup

Dynamo^Joe

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Hi,
I jumped flagship this year from polaris to BRP. Amazingly fun sled, but i struggle to handle it in firm snow. When sidehilling it can be very unpredictable and kicks the sled of its balance. Is this a feature of the gen4/5 platform, or do i need to adjust the suspension more.

I tried with and without the stabilizer, not a huge difference but i prefer with.
Melfjord writes:kicks the sled of its balance
Joe writes; what are you describing? Do you mean when you initiate a sidehill, then the rear of the sled washes out and the vehicle quickly turns, the rear of the sled, slides downhill, so the front of the vehicle points uphill?
skidoo 850 clutch kit ibackshift sidehillwash.jpg
 

Dynamo^Joe

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The arrow size shows the magnitude of ground force, as-if the sled was on 4 weigh scales.

skidoo 850 clutch kit ibackshift weight dist.jpg

Difficult Balance to steer [washout] a sled across a hill is usually a suspension setting problem.

Too much spring rate, too tight of front springs, the front end won't be active enough.
Too much spring rate, too tight of rear springs, the rear end won't be active enough.
The chassis needs to have some set in to react to engine torque.
The chassis needs to absorb a little engine torque, by having a little low speed shock shaft movement mostly from the front shocks and the most-rear-shock.

***Not enough evenly distributed rail pressure or force, causes the weight distribution going from the skis to the back of the rear suspension too quickly***
Imagine the limiter strap sucked up, even one more hole than is pre-drilled on the strap. An exaggeration would be like a race sled. Limiter strap sucked up, most of the ground pressure is on the skis and the rear idler wheels. The race sled wants a controlled wash out in corners to do power slides out of corners.

When you run a race sled with its limiter out, it accelerates hard in a drag race but can't corner. The limiter let out, there is too much rail pressure, not enough ski pressure to execute a powerslide turn. Go like heck in a drag race, but can't turn competitively. [But this is kinda what you want on a long track to execute a sidehill]

On a long track, when the sled washes out, its weight distribution is acting like a wave of water in a tank, sloshing from one end to the other. The tank wants to tip. You have to slow down the weight movement, changing from the front [skis] to the back of the sled [idler wheel]. Blending ride height and limiter strap length act like baffles in a sloshing water tank. A let-out limiter strap lets the front of the rails engage the snow more. Weight is more evenly spread across the rear to the front of the sled. You don't get that sharp change of weight distribution moving from the front of the sled, abruptly to the rear of the sled, washing out.

"Without-rider" ride height [front]
With sled on ground, push down on the front end a few times. Let the sled rebound on its own. Put your measure tape to the front bumper. What it’s height? With a floor jack, lift the sled from under the belly pan and lift the sled till the skis just want to lift off the floor. On an average summit-X, the shock shaft distance will be anywhere from 3/4" to 1.25", or, you can measure bumper height will be like say 21 to 23-1/2. 2.5 inches on a factory skidoo front bumper will be around 1.25 shock shaft travel.
Me saying 21 to 23 inches is not relevant. What IS relevant; the start height and the measured height difference. About 2.5 inches bumper height is about 1/2 of that distance on a front shock shaft.
ski-doo 850 clutch kit ibackshift shockshaft.jpg

"With-rider" ride height [back]
With sled on ground, push down on the rear end a few times, let the sled rebound on its own. Put your measure tape to the bottom of the rear bumper. Now, YOU get on the sled and sit down. What is the new measurement of the rear bumper off the ground? [Someone will have to measure for you] On an old 165 long tunnel, should drop 3~3.5 inches. On a new 165 short tunnel 2~2.5 inches.

Ride height [ride sag] does this; controls the speed of the sled transferring weight from the front to back, back to front. It's like adding baffles to an open water tank to slow liquid from BAM hitting one end of the tank, sloshing to BAM hitting the opposite end of the tank. When your sled washes out, that's as-if the weight moved to the back end too fast and you can't control it.

Having a certain ride height [sag] and weight more evenly distributed across the slide rails, slows the sudden weight redistribution. You’ll be able to make the sled go straight as an arrow across the side of a hill.

People can argue about numbers and it'll get nowhere. In the end, start with a basepoint and go from there.
At home...
1] let your limiter strap right out
2] measure your Without-rider ride height [front]. Shock shaft length around say 1 inch. Or 2 inches on a skidoo bumper height. Adjust your front coils so you get that base setting
3] measure your With-rider ride height [back]. Modern short tunnels get 2~2.5 inches
4] set your handlebar riser direct in line with the steering post. Don't have the handlebars pointed up more than 2 ticks on the bar – the palms of your hands should be fairly flat when standing and your fingers across the bar.

Go! This should be a good starting point so you can balance to steer the sled straight as an arrow across setup snow.
From this point on, you'll be able to adjust the limiter strap hole, and/or the tension of the centershock spring to help balance your sled to ease a straight line across a sidehill.


Short-and-sweet version...
Evenly distribute the weight from the skis to the rear suspension. This avoids abrupt shifts that throw balance from front to the back of the sled.
Imagine the limiter strap as a control to dampen that shifting of balance - not too tight like a race sled, a little more on the let-out side.

Ride Height:
Without-rider ride height (front) and with-rider ride height (back) matter.
Measure the front bumper heights without you on the sled.
Measure the rear bumper height with you on the sled. You want a balanced drop in the rear when you sit on it.

Handlebar Position: Keep the handlebars fairly flat when standing. This helps keep your body more near the center of gravity on the sled to initiate a counter steer.
Adjust the handlebar riser so it aligns with the steering post, minimizing steering feedback into the handlebars.

ski-doo 850 clutch kit ibackshift shockshaft.jpg
 
Last edited:

Dogmeat

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The arrow size shows the magnitude of ground force, as-if the sled was on 4 weigh scales.

View attachment 413737

Difficult Balance to steer [washout] a sled across a hill is usually a suspension setting problem.

Too much spring rate, too tight of front springs, the front end won't be active enough.
Too much spring rate, too tight of rear springs, the rear end won't be active enough.
The chassis needs to have some set in to react to engine torque.
The chassis needs to absorb a little engine torque, by having a little low speed shock shaft movement mostly from the front shocks and the most-rear-shock.

***Not enough evenly distributed rail pressure or force, causes the weight distribution going from the skis to the back of the rear suspension too quickly***
Imagine the limiter strap sucked up, even one more hole than is pre-drilled on the strap. An exaggeration would be like a race sled. Limiter strap sucked up, most of the ground pressure is on the skis and the rear idler wheels. The race sled wants a controlled wash out in corners to do power slides out of corners.

When you run a race sled with its limiter out, it accelerates hard in a drag race but can't corner. The limiter let out, there is too much rail pressure, not enough ski pressure to execute a powerslide turn. Go like heck in a drag race, but can't turn competitively. [But this is kinda what you want on a long track to execute a sidehill]

On a long track, when the sled washes out, its weight distribution is acting like a wave of water in a tank, sloshing from one end to the other. The tank wants to tip. You have to slow down the weight movement, changing from the front [skis] to the back of the sled [idler wheel]. Blending ride height and limiter strap length act like baffles in a sloshing water tank. A let-out limiter strap lets the front of the rails engage the snow more. Weight is more evenly spread across the rear to the front of the sled. You don't get that sharp change of weight distribution moving from the front of the sled, abruptly to the rear of the sled, washing out.

"Without-rider" ride height [front]
With sled on ground, push down on the front end a few times. Let the sled rebound on its own. Put your measure tape to the front bumper. What it’s height? With a floor jack, lift the sled from under the belly pan and lift the sled till the skis just want to lift off the floor. On an average summit-X, the shock shaft distance will be anywhere from 3/4" to 1.25", or, you can measure bumper height will be like say 21 to 23-1/2. 2.5 inches on a factory skidoo front bumper will be around 1.25 shock shaft travel.
Me saying 21 to 23 inches is not relevant. What IS relevant; the start height and the measured height difference. About 2.5 inches bumper height is about 1/2 of that distance on a front shock shaft.
View attachment 413739

"With-rider" ride height [back]
With sled on ground, push down on the rear end a few times, let the sled rebound on its own. Put your measure tape to the bottom of the rear bumper. Now, YOU get on the sled and sit down. What is the new measurement of the rear bumper off the ground? [Someone will have to measure for you] On an old 165 long tunnel, should drop 3~3.5 inches. On a new 165 short tunnel 2~2.5 inches.

Ride height [ride sag] does this; controls the speed of the sled transferring weight from the front to back, back to front. It's like adding baffles to an open water tank to slow liquid from BAM hitting one end of the tank, sloshing to BAM hitting the opposite end of the tank. When your sled washes out, that's as-if the weight moved to the back end too fast and you can't control it.

Having a certain ride height [sag] and weight more evenly distributed across the slide rails, slows the sudden weight redistribution. You’ll be able to make the sled go straight as an arrow across the side of a hill.

People can argue about numbers and it'll get nowhere. In the end, start with a basepoint and go from there.
At home...
1] let your limiter strap right out
2] measure your Without-rider ride height [front]. Shock shaft length around say 1 inch. Or 2 inches on a skidoo bumper height. Adjust your front coils so you get that base setting
3] measure your With-rider ride height [back]. Modern short tunnels get 2~2.5 inches
4] set your handlebar riser direct in line with the steering post. Don't have the handlebars pointed up more than 2 ticks on the bar – the palms of your hands should be fairly flat when standing and your fingers across the bar.

Go! This should be a good starting point so you can balance to steer the sled straight as an arrow across setup snow.
From this point on, you'll be able to adjust the limiter strap hole, and/or the tension of the centershock spring to help balance your sled to ease a straight line across a sidehill.


Short-and-sweet version...
Evenly distribute the weight from the skis to the rear suspension. This avoids abrupt shifts that throw balance from front to the back of the sled.
Imagine the limiter strap as a control to dampen that shifting of balance - not too tight like a race sled, a little more on the let-out side.

Ride Height:
Without-rider ride height (front) and with-rider ride height (back) matter.
Measure the front bumper heights without you on the sled.
Measure the rear bumper height with you on the sled. You want a balanced drop in the rear when you sit on it.

Handlebar Position: Keep the handlebars fairly flat when standing. This helps keep your body more near the center of gravity on the sled to initiate a counter steer.
Adjust the handlebar riser so it aligns with the steering post, minimizing steering feedback into the handlebars.

Great post. Gonna check my settings with these baselines today.
 
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