Lower priary engagement on 2017 850 165
- Thread starter jaf
- Start date
wildcard28
Well-known member
Where does 850 Summit clutch engage? This my first gen4 850, I liked 34- 3600 my 800 etec Xm Summit has its smooth and still pulls hard and linear
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My 850 G4 engages at 2800rpm and is as smooth as butter !!! no belt heat like the 4000 engagement...
Contact Joe at ibackshift.com for red primary spring.....
Contact Joe at ibackshift.com for red primary spring.....
what Inthe8s said. i was surprised at how high the engagement was on my '20 freeride. didn't like it so i put in an ibackshift kit and it's very smooth while my buddies on their stock sleds blip the throttle like they get paid to do it. and yes i pick on them about it.
The 2017 x 850 x 154 w/967 ramps had 3600 engagement. It "Surged" when i engage the clutch and made it difficult to sidehill slowly w/wrong-foot-forward, either on setup snow or wet/heavy snow and made the sled too fast for me.
I worked on taming down that "surge" of the clutch engaging/disengaging to slow the clutch down.
Ended up getting Dalton to make this spring for me.
Removed the 170/350
installed my Red 100/360
Going from 170/xxx to 100/xxx took the engagement speed down to 2700~3000 rpms depending on pivot weight.
Hi Joe I have a 2017 850 X 165x3 stock other than ski doo updates dont think they changed anything on the clutch. Do you think the red spring would be right for my sled, my problems have been simular to what you explained and even worse boon docking on the slopes. Thank you in advance John (jaf)
Hello John. ?
One way to reduce clutch heat is to lower the engine speed at part throttle.
You have a certain style of threading the needle through the trees. You drive at a certain speed range to perform your maneuvers...[its your style the way you ride in distinction to anyone else]. What is the average engine speed at these part throttle settings with the stock 170/xxx? The belt will have a certain temperature based on your inputs.
Ok, turn around and come back and change to a 100/xxx and lower the engagement speed.
You have a certain style of threading the needle through the trees. You drive at a certain speed range to perform your maneuvers.... What is the average engine speed at these part throttle settings with the new 100/xxx? The belt will have a certain temperature based on those inputs.
Going from the 170/xxx to the 100/xxx, causes the clutch to push harder with less engine speed [lower engagement speed] and have less engine speed at part throttle settings.
I recorded a video of the stock 850 turbo engaging at 42~4300 rpms before the sled started moving. [have a 1/8th mile track right outside the garage] Went back into the garage and directly changed out to the red 100 spring and test again on the track. If I remember right [vids on my editing laptop/not this laptop] that i was doing 17~18mph at 4300 rpms. The clutch touches at 29~3000. Engine speed increases to overcome the friction of the sled and sled moves at 3200. Continue slowly increasing throttle and at 4300 im doing 17mph-ish. All my part throttle picking through the trees is 1500 rpms less than stock primary spring. Instead of moving around in the trees at 5500 rpms, now im doing the same procedure at 4000 rpms.
I played with spring start forces down to 75~80 pounds and 2200~2300 to try to find "how low is too low"? Even stock clutching, the 850 has enough torque off the bottom end to handle 2900~3000 rpms so the 100 spring should offer around that engine speed [depending on ramp profile] and the 967 ramp in your sled, whatever the engagement speed is right now, should be like 500 rpms lower, at least. This makes the connection tighter between your thumb and the track and not bog when you have to punch the throttle.
whether its right for you or not, i dont know. All i can do is tell you what it "does" compared to another spring and you decide for yourself, trusting what I said is factual.
Your friend
Joey
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Hello Joey Yes you explained the way my sled works , I was , am very reluctant to make any changes to my sled up till reading your reply I will get to mt dealer 120 miles away and have him put in the lower engagement spring . Thank You very much for your very informative testing results . John
Buddy...the next lower skidoo primary spring is 150/350 blue/purple. That will lower like 150~200ish.
The 100 red spring is here.
Really, YOU are the perfect person to do it yourself. Yer gonna make an appointment and have to drive 2 hours and drive back home. Then repeat this all over again and you are 8 hours into it just driving alone, never mind the extended circumstance time added into the 8 hours sitting in the driver seat? How much is your time worth? The grunt tool to hold the clutch and change the spring are a small pittance of what time/effort/energy you'll spend to get that spring changed. I have full vidyas on utube of how to do this task for the pdrive. AND you'll have waaAAaay more confidence to lower the reluctance (your words) to do changes, because you'll have the knowledge and skill to go back to where you started from. Do the job yourself. All you need a few tools and a bench to work on.
.....and again...haha, if and when you see me work on a clutch, yer gonna say "holy s4it, if that bald headed red headed chicken f###er can do it, then so can I, because he's br00tal".
The 100 red spring is here.
Really, YOU are the perfect person to do it yourself. Yer gonna make an appointment and have to drive 2 hours and drive back home. Then repeat this all over again and you are 8 hours into it just driving alone, never mind the extended circumstance time added into the 8 hours sitting in the driver seat? How much is your time worth? The grunt tool to hold the clutch and change the spring are a small pittance of what time/effort/energy you'll spend to get that spring changed. I have full vidyas on utube of how to do this task for the pdrive. AND you'll have waaAAaay more confidence to lower the reluctance (your words) to do changes, because you'll have the knowledge and skill to go back to where you started from. Do the job yourself. All you need a few tools and a bench to work on.
.....and again...haha, if and when you see me work on a clutch, yer gonna say "holy s4it, if that bald headed red headed chicken f###er can do it, then so can I, because he's br00tal".
wildcard28
Well-known member
Joey, you helped me on past sleds before, I heard today my sled is ready at dealer to be picked up next week. [emoji869]
I have had a plan to not change anything on the sleds suspension or engine mods till I've road it a couple times to get a baseline feel of the sled and this will be first Gen4 I've ever rode.
Sled is 22' Summit X 850 165x3 non turbo, and I'm liking the red 100 spring your explaining, do you suggest I just go ahead and change out the spring for the lower smoother engagement or put a ride on the stock first.
I've had a 14' Xm Summit X 800etec 163 for few yrs now. And Got an Axys Rmk 800 163 for all last season , my buddy rode the Xm.
and really like the lower and smoother engagement the Xm had so after rideing the Rmk I found the clutching on it to snappy to my likeing made it difficult learning balance on different chassis and in tight spots you stab throttle it want yank sled out from under me.
Gone for me are the days of my 04 Rev Summit 800ho with the 200/290 spring with 4200 engagement qaszrun back in younger days but if that sled had power of the Axys or Xm it be way bigger hand full, Lol
So would like smoother lower more controllable throttle to engine to smother feel in the chassis. What do you suggest ??
Thanks, Wildcard
Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk
I have had a plan to not change anything on the sleds suspension or engine mods till I've road it a couple times to get a baseline feel of the sled and this will be first Gen4 I've ever rode.
Sled is 22' Summit X 850 165x3 non turbo, and I'm liking the red 100 spring your explaining, do you suggest I just go ahead and change out the spring for the lower smoother engagement or put a ride on the stock first.
I've had a 14' Xm Summit X 800etec 163 for few yrs now. And Got an Axys Rmk 800 163 for all last season , my buddy rode the Xm.
and really like the lower and smoother engagement the Xm had so after rideing the Rmk I found the clutching on it to snappy to my likeing made it difficult learning balance on different chassis and in tight spots you stab throttle it want yank sled out from under me.
Gone for me are the days of my 04 Rev Summit 800ho with the 200/290 spring with 4200 engagement qaszrun back in younger days but if that sled had power of the Axys or Xm it be way bigger hand full, Lol
So would like smoother lower more controllable throttle to engine to smother feel in the chassis. What do you suggest ??
Thanks, Wildcard
Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk
Hi Wildcard, sorry man, I did not see you post this.
Wildcard) I'm liking the red 100 spring your explaining, do you suggest I just go ahead and change out the spring for the lower smoother engagement or put a ride on the stock first.
Joe) I drove my 17 for a 1/2 a season [approximately] to get my sea legs with it, getting used to how it worked. For me personally, i like "before and after".
I do get customers asking me if they should put the kit in before they run their new sled and I say "yep, go ahead". Im not being hypocritical, it just boils down to your individual situation. Some people, the reason they bought the kit is because they tried a sled with the kit, and wanted those features. So then I say to them "put the kit in and dont look back."
Whatever decision you make as far as the 100 start force; flip a coin "heads = 100", "tails = stock" and dont look back, just hammer down.
Wildcard) I'm liking the red 100 spring your explaining, do you suggest I just go ahead and change out the spring for the lower smoother engagement or put a ride on the stock first.
Joe) I drove my 17 for a 1/2 a season [approximately] to get my sea legs with it, getting used to how it worked. For me personally, i like "before and after".
I do get customers asking me if they should put the kit in before they run their new sled and I say "yep, go ahead". Im not being hypocritical, it just boils down to your individual situation. Some people, the reason they bought the kit is because they tried a sled with the kit, and wanted those features. So then I say to them "put the kit in and dont look back."
Whatever decision you make as far as the 100 start force; flip a coin "heads = 100", "tails = stock" and dont look back, just hammer down.
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I made stickers for "those guys" HAHAHA
I stuck the top sticker on my best riding bud Corey's 165 "he blips it lots".
Blipitless is on my sled. I dont blip.
the 3rd one is for guys who when you bug them about "blipping", it goes in one ear and out the other,
I’ve got the same kit and it’s a dream to ride in tight & low speed situations.
