Lithium Battery for E Start ? ['21 Axys Pro RMK 850]

[frntflp]

Any reason a guy could not/should not, replace the standard lead acid battery required for e-start with a lithium battery - Li batteries are roughly $130 at Batteries Plus and weight in at abt 3-4 lbs. That would be a 10+lb redux in overall weight.

Last year I installed a small Lithium battery after input from others on the forum. Worked great, but could benefit from being a little bigger (I.e. more CA). I had planned to buy a second one and wire them in parallel this year - then tripped over the bigger, single battery altogether for a slightly higher price. The larger battery would fill in the full battery tray and almost exactly the same size as the lead acid OEM unit.

 

[Teth-Air]

Yes, or you can use a super-capacitor. Works great.

 

[sledhed]

I bought a WPS lithium off ebay for the best price, works great... have heard they don't work well when very cold but haven't run into that yet; once there is some heat under the hood it should not be a problem, pull start for the first start of the day would not be a big deal to me anyway.

 

[frntflp]

.... pull start for the first start of the day would not be a big deal to me anyway.

Yep !

Seems the ignition/starting algorithm in the new machines are designed around pull start anyway. Less crank rotations start the sled with the rope than when using e-start. Prob due to the electrical needing to run the injectors and build up fuel pressure - and that takes time, not much, but takes advantage of the few seconds between pulls of a rope ?? My $0.02.

In the end, since I qualify for the "over 50 and still shreading" thread, I feel I've dug out enough sleds, then pulled a rope [and nearly passed out] - that I've EARNED the right to have e-start while on the side of a hill or in the woods - but still want to minimize the extra weight.

 

[cvcustoms]

Any reason a guy could not/should not, replace the standard lead acid battery required for e-start with a lithium battery - Li batteries are roughly $130 at Batteries Plus and weight in at abt 3-4 lbs. That would be a 10+lb redux in overall weight.

Last year I installed a small Lithium battery after input from others on the forum. Worked great, but could benefit from being a little bigger (I.e. more CA). I had planned to buy a second one and wire them in parallel this year - then tripped over the bigger, single battery altogether for a slightly higher price. The larger battery would fill in the full battery tray and almost exactly the same size as the lead acid OEM unit.

I make a E-Start kit that uses a lithium battery and new mounting system. The whole kit weighs about the same as the factory battery box alone and gains access to the chaincase and/or belt drive!! It makes repairs (if needed) on the Mountian much easier. On a really cold day 10 degrees or less you may have to pull start in the morning but after that you will be set all day! Below is a link to the product if you want to check it out in more detail!

Lightweight EStart Kit

 

[sledhed]

Yep !

Seems the ignition/starting algorithm in the new machines are designed around pull start anyway. Less crank rotations start the sled with the rope than when using e-start. Prob due to the electrical needing to run the injectors and build up fuel pressure - and that takes time, not much, but takes advantage of the few seconds between pulls of a rope ?? My $0.02.

In the end, since I qualify for the "over 50 and still shreading" thread, I feel I've dug out enough sleds, then pulled a rope [and nearly passed out] - that I've EARNED the right to have e-start while on the side of a hill or in the woods - but still want to minimize the extra weight.

I'm in the group with ya... and you are right, first start of the day using e-start seemes to take way more rotations than 1 or 2 yanks on the cord... Hoping Polaris licenses SHOT from Doo at some point.

 

[Teth-Air]

Polaris has made their sleds super easy to start with a flick of the wrist. Every generation of motor starts easier than previous. Unless someone is handicapped or super weak I cannot understand the need for e-start. I don't see them making a lighter e-start unless it saves manufacturing costs.

 

[sledhed]

Polaris has made their sleds super easy to start with a flick of the wrist. Every generation of motor starts easier than previous. Unless someone is handicapped or super weak I cannot understand the need for e-start. I don't see them making a lighter e-start unless it saves manufacturing costs.

Carpal tunnel... Herniated disc... torn rotator cuff in shoulder... not saying I have all these, but the ailments I do have, I just ride through the pain but makes a long day of riding a bit easier to not have to yank the cord every time we stop for a break or a stuck.
And then I would ask why did Skidoo come up with SHOT if there is no market for it? I don't know how much they charge for it, but cool system.

(Satire warning... all in good fun... read what follows at your own risk...)
But on the other hand I really don't know why anyone would need reverse... just plan where you are going better. And when you do want to turn around, and there is no room, just get your super weak butt off the sled and hee-ho the back end around until you are pointing in the other direction... and drag the sled backwards off the trailer... I don't know why anyone would need reverse.

My friend's old McCormick tractor starts easy with the simple twist of the crank start. No battery or starter needed. I don't know why they took the cranks off the newer tractors.
(/End satire warning)
And I have been around long enough to see all of the above... sad I know LOL

 

[BeartoothBaron]

I can't understand why pull starting is such a big deal to some people either – even on my old carb sled that takes a dozen pulls to start after being rolled – but then I'm 37 and in good shape. Probably one day I will understand.... I'm also willing to admit that I'm probably not good enough to ride two otherwise identical sleds back to back, one with e-start and one without, and tell the difference. For most riders, if you want it, it's 20lb (with factory battery) you're not going to notice most of the time. So if not having to pull the rope makes the experience noticeably better, go for it.

CVCustoms kit looks like a great solution for those who care about both. It is too bad SHOT isn't an option at present (and I'm pretty sure it won't work without direct injection, so not a simple matter of licensing); not having to pull the rope in exchange for just a few more pounds would be tempting even to me. That said, switching to the equivalent Doo adds more weight than factory e-start anyway, so...

 

[frntflp]

Carpal tunnel... Herniated disc... torn rotator cuff in shoulder... not saying I have all these, but the ailments I do have, I just ride through the pain but makes a long day of riding a bit easier to not have to yank the cord every time we stop for a break or a stuck.
And then I would ask why did Skidoo come up with SHOT if there is no market for it? I don't know how much they charge for it, but cool system.

(Satire warning... all in good fun... read what follows at your own risk...)
But on the other hand I really don't know why anyone would need reverse... just plan where you are going better. And when you do want to turn around, and there is no room, just get your super weak butt off the sled and hee-ho the back end around until you are pointing in the other direction... and drag the sled backwards off the trailer... I don't know why anyone would need reverse.

I'll add one more from personal experience - the flat lander who thinks he's in shape [until the reduced oxygen at elevation tells otherwise] - which is typically right after digging out from a "good stuck".

Reverse ? Only if it doesn't add weight to the sled.... to be dug out .... and later pass out - wishing I had estart . . . . that's the extra benefit to the PERC aka Ski Doo design that most enjoy.

 

[turboless terry]

I'll add one more,
Liberals don't want something, they don't want anyone else to have it. Isn't this snowest or America?

 

[tuneman]

Related to this, I can tell you that Polaris will be coming out with their version of Shot and it will likely be in the 2022 mountain Matryx, along with a factory turbo with tunnel dump.

The Polaris version has a removable capacitor/battery type key that you can take with you to keep warm. They figured out how to do the quick start with semi-direct injection by quickly reversing the engine and then running it forward to pull the fuel into the cylinders.

I'm an engineer with many patents and patent experience. So, I like to research patents to figure out what other folks are up to.

 

[NHRoadking]

Related to this, I can tell you that Polaris will be coming out with their version of Shot and it will likely be in the 2022 mountain Matryx, along with a factory turbo with tunnel dump.

The Polaris version has a removable capacitor/battery type key that you can take with you to keep warm. They figured out how to do the quick start with semi-direct injection by quickly reversing the engine and then running it forward to pull the fuel into the cylinders.

I'm an engineer with many patents and patent experience. So, I like to research patents to figure out what other folks are up to.

SHOT was too good for Polaris to ignore.

 

[Thielio20]

I make a E-Start kit that uses a lithium battery and new mounting system. The whole kit weighs about the same as the factory battery box alone and gains access to the chaincase and/or belt drive!! It makes repairs (if needed) on the Mountian much easier. On a really cold day 10 degrees or less you may have to pull start in the morning but after that you will be set all day! Below is a link to the product if you want to check it out in more detail!

Lightweight EStart Kit

I see you don’t have anything for a ski doo 850 that doesn’t have SHOT. What are the chances of building a setup for a 2017 summit?

 

[Reg2view]

FWIW, I've had two Earth-X fail, one under warranty. Maintained per spec with the recommended Optimate charger. Both just puked without warning, worked one day, not the next. I'm all for Li-on batteries, they work well, cut amazing weight, when they work. For Poo-estart sleds, the battery box is way-heavy, too. I would try something cheaper like the WPS; Earth-X was ~$350US, and that was a sale price.

 

[Teth-Air]

SHOT was too good for Polaris to ignore.

Yes it is good but better than "good" is "desirable" . It could be a gimmick and as long as your customers gobbled it up it will sell.

 

[cvcustoms]

I see you don’t have anything for a ski doo 850 that doesn’t have SHOT. What are the chances of building a setup for a 2017 summit?

I do not have a ski Doo in my garage so I am unable to get anything designed at this time.

 

[sledhed]

I do not have a ski Doo in my garage so I am unable to get anything designed at this time.

So what size is the battery in your kit? I already have a WPS lithium battery that replaces the factory battery, has the same dimensions other than height as the factory battery, has the blocks to make it taller. Would love a lighter weight battery bracket system that gives me access to the chaincase, but already have a lightweight battery I purchased last spring...

 

[cvcustoms]

So what size is the battery in your kit? I already have a WPS lithium battery that replaces the factory battery, has the same dimensions other than height as the factory battery, has the blocks to make it taller. Would love a lighter weight battery bracket system that gives me access to the chaincase, but already have a lightweight battery I purchased last spring...

The battery size that my box is designed for is

• 4.25 x 2.25 x 3.75 inches (LxWxH)

 

[sledhed]

The battery size that my box is designed for is

• 4.25 x 2.25 x 3.75 inches (LxWxH)

Sweet. If I did not already have a lightweight battery, this entire kit would only be a few bucks more than I paid for the battery alone, definitely worth it. Nice work.