Lighter clutch and flywheel for Axys

[glowa]

After riding the new skidoo I cannot stop thinking about their new lightweight clutch Supposedly it is 1.5kg lighter than old clutch, can someone confirm that? I must admit that the throttle response was pretty impressive. I know that Burandt had this lighter clutch cover on at least one of his sleds, according to his website it is around 340 grams together with a flywheel of weight saving rotational mass. Is there someone on this forum that was also riding this setup and could describe the feeling and tell me if it is a worthy expense?

 

[TRS]

After riding the new skidoo I cannot stop thinking about their new lightweight clutch Supposedly it is 1.5kg lighter than old clutch, can someone confirm that? I must admit that the throttle response was pretty impressive. I know that Burandt had this lighter clutch cover on at least one of his sleds, according to his website it is around 340 grams together with a flywheel of weight saving rotational mass. Is there someone on this forum that was also riding this setup and could describe the feeling and tell me if it is a worthy expense?

The old Ski-doo clutch was a boat anchor. Not hard to drop rotating mass there.

 

[LoudHandle]

I have not run these mods yet, but have been collecting parts as I can afford them. Plus putting together a lot of my own ideas.

Check these out;

http://www.zollingerracingproducts.com/shop-our-store/rotating-performance-package.

They also do a Flywheel lightening mod and ended up getting .211lb out of the flywheels.

For more info PM LPIdaho, or he may see this and add info.

Patrick's Custom Carbon makes a nice cover also but as with all their stuff, it is over priced. And their balancing is a complete sham.

 

[glowa]

yeah thats the kit from Zollinger that I am interested in, but I am looking for some real world users of this kit that already rode it to confirm that there is actually some difference in performance

 

[mountainhorse]

The new pDrive Ski Doo Clutch tips the scales at about 12.7 lbs. (so its not all THAT lightweight)

A stock P85 is about 9.5 lbs... 3 lbs less than the pDrive stock/stock... and you can take that down easily on a P85 with a LW cover and bolts.

The throttle response on that 850 is impressive because of the 80mm throw on the crank... and the nature of the eTec injection system.
I'm not sure that the rotating mass on a doo 850 is lighter or actually heavier than the previous 800 eTec's...

You will hit a point .... and I don't know where that is...with ANY motor where further lightening the rotating assembly is detrimental to ride-ablity, smooth running and longevity... engines need flywheel mass.



.

 

[LoudHandle]

The new pDrive Ski Doo Clutch tips the scales at about 12.7 lbs.

A stock P85 is about 9.5 lbs... and you can take that down easily with a LW cover and bolts.

The throttle response on that 850 is impressive in spite of of the 80mm throw on the crank... and the nature of the eTec injection system.

You will hit a point .... and I don't know where that is...with any motor where lightening the rotating assembly is detrimental to ride-ablity, smooth running and longevity... engines need flywheel mass.

Fixed the Doo comment

MH, You always throw out that statement, and if we could lighten it that far and still be reliable, I'd be ecstatic, but I don't see that happening. At least not while we still have the mass of the Primary (regardless of how light we can get it without gernading) in play.

I personally; would like to see us get to that point, so we know where the line is.

 

[mountainhorse]

I don't believe it is, based on my experience, "in spite of", at all....but to each their own. (in terms of the 80mm stroke).

I do believe in the lighter rotational inertia of the compact 70mm stroke of the 800 CFi though... especially for smaller/lighter riders... less 'gyro effect' is good for a piece of equipment you want to throw around and change directions/attitude with.

Hop on one then the other with stock and lightened flywheels and cranks. The previous generation 800CFi's ran smoother than the Axys... you can feel less buzz.... just physics.

I've seen that point on many engines... from model airplane motors to massive big block V8's... The mass has a damping effect... just ask Dan. The crank/flywheel/clutch are all part of the flywheel-mass once connected.

The LW covers, Ti bolts and Recoil baskets...I'm sure will help to make it snappier though...Bobby's background and ethics wouldn't have him selling anything that doesn't work.

Fixed the Doo comment

MH, You always throw out that statement, and if we could lighten it that far and still be reliable, I'd be ecstatic, but I don't see that happening. At least not while we still have the mass of the Primary (regardless of how light we can get it without grenadeing) in play.

I personally; would like to see us get to that point, so we know where the line is.

 

[mountainhorse]

Brent,

When are we going to see one of your sleds... With all that Ti on there... I'm sincerely wanting to see what it's all about.




.

 

[LoudHandle]

Brent,

When are we going to one of your sleds... With all that Ti on there... I'm sincerely wanting to see what it's all about.

Hoping by spring, but I have been saying that every year for way too long. Still have a lot of parts to build. And see additional improvements to add everyday. But Money and time are tight lately. They are real, No unicorns here.


The longer stroke of the Doo helps develop Torque not Acceleration. Was my point.

If they were buzzy, then they needed a tighter tolerance on the balancing. Or one of the resonate frequencies / critical frequencies was in the normal RPM range. IMO
It is Physics, and Metalurgy.

 

[JMCX]

The 850 Doo has a really thick power curve and this allows clutching that hits hard at a lower RPM. Thus the snappy feel.

 

[xmk1080]

I have not run these mods yet, but have been collecting parts as I can afford them. Plus putting together a lot of my own ideas.

Check these out;

http://www.zollingerracingproducts.com/shop-our-store/rotating-performance-package.

They also do a Flywheel lightening mod and ended up getting .211lb out of the flywheels.

For more info PM LPIdaho, or he may see this and add info.

Patrick's Custom Carbon makes a nice cover also but as with all their stuff, it is over priced. And their balancing is a complete sham.

Who do you trust to do your balancing work? I have always wondered how close the flywheels are. I usually send my primary to Indy Specialty. Always looking for perfection

 

[BILTIT]

After riding the new skidoo I cannot stop thinking about their new lightweight clutch Supposedly it is 1.5kg lighter than old clutch, can someone confirm that? I must admit that the throttle response was pretty impressive. I know that Burandt had this lighter clutch cover on at least one of his sleds, according to his website it is around 340 grams together with a flywheel of weight saving rotational mass. Is there someone on this forum that was also riding this setup and could describe the feeling and tell me if it is a worthy expense?

I have Patricks custom carbon clutch cover, Ti bolts and his balancing etc. It all added up to 1.25lbs lighter than a stock clutch (that is significant if MH's 9.5lb polaris clutch weight is correct).

The rate of acceleration of the engine has changed (up/down in rpm) and you can feel/hear it. I have no idea if it has affected any other area of the engine performance, i have noticed nothing negative from it.

Granted, i did not weigh the clutch myself but am going by Patricks word on the final weight. I will weigh it the next time i have it off though.

Here was a video that someone asked for to watch for any deflection, not sure if it tells much:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTLPCKWwwnM&feature=youtu.be

 

[LoudHandle]

Who do you trust to do your balancing work? I have always wondered how close the flywheels are. I usually send my primary to Indy Specialty. Always looking for perfection

You are trusting the right man. IMO

 

[richracer1]

I have Patricks custom carbon clutch cover, Ti bolts and his balancing etc. It all added up to 1.25lbs lighter than a stock clutch (that is significant if MH's 9.5lb polaris clutch weight is correct).

The rate of acceleration of the engine has changed (up/down in rpm) and you can feel/hear it. I have no idea if it has affected any other area of the engine performance, i have noticed nothing negative from it.

Granted, i did not weigh the clutch myself but am going by Patricks word on the final weight. I will weigh it the next time i have it off though.

Here was a video that someone asked for to watch for any deflection, not sure if it tells much:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTLPCKWwwnM&feature=youtu.be

His weight for the primary is pretty close to what I got, 9lbs 2oz w/o the e-start ring (I think this was stock). The clutch with the e-start ring is 11lbs 4oz (this is with the Happy Face clutch cover)

 

[Hawkster]

This is a good conversation and I have no where near the knowledge or stats you guys have but I can add a comment about any of the factory primaries and that is they are still massive flinging slow reving clutches .

Doo' s primary is ingenious , bet there is more than one manufacture kicking themselves in the butt for not beating them to the punch on this one .

I went with a powerbloc and had to put a ring gear for personal fear of the crank letting go . The snap is instantainiance and is like barking a throttle on a two stroke dirt bike .

Of course it's on an old 800 HO and I can only compare it to a couple of differentTRAs' that I went threw and a friend that has the same set up with a P-85 and what they have in common is one thing , a slow rev .

I throw a leg over the new sleds when opportunity arises and even though the technology is impressive the clutching is still the same .

Why go threw trying to reinvent a certain style clutch when there is one of many versions that will give you what you want ? The expense in just modifying would almost or would pay for one . Granted they are as far from bling as you can get but that only works in the parking lot